Jump to content

Oliver Weight ( split from forsale forum )


Recommended Posts

Here is the answer to the weight question, just received from Robert:

 

"Using your numbers (which are pretty spot on) that leaves 330lbs unaccounted

for. The insulation we are now using (which also strengthens the shells) has

added over 250 lbs. The estimation of 2400lbs had not been up dated since

the 1st of the year and during that time we have added lots of minor items

that once all added up would probably be over a hundred pounds. Thicker

fiberglass in certain areas, additional frame supports and larger cross

members, a 5000lb axle and springs (this was maybe 50 - 75 lbs) and other

improvements where we saw fit. I apologize for your disappointment and have

discussed this with our sales associates and plan own making intended buyers

more aware of the loaded Elites potential end weight.

 

Thanks,

Robert"

 

So, the 2,400 base weight of the Oliver has recently been increased by about 400 -425 pounds, then when you upgrade to an Elite, those options (microwave/convection oven, A/C, awning, 40 foot shore power cord and 12V reel, dual pane windows, extra battery) add another approximately 440 pounds to come to about 3,265 pounds. The twin bed option adds about 100 more pounds, plus a few more light weight options on mine brings it to 3,400 pounds UVW.

 

My intentions of towing our Oliver with our V6 RAV4 are marginal, at best. I've got some unexpected hard decisions about TV's to make.

 

Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

The weight of Doug's Elite is about 400 lbs. more than Bigfoot's 17.5, which has considerably more interior space because of the 8 ft. width. The Oliver is no longer a light weight trailer.

 

Doug - Since your trailer is very close to the weight of mine I would suggest taking a hard second look at your intentions to use the Rav4, especially if your travels will include a lot of mountains and steep grades. Our V6 Tacoma (similar engine size to your Rav4) performed well enough on the flats but steep grades were frustrating. Besides, it's very likely that you will be towing in excess of the towing capacity. We had over 1500 lbs. reserve towing capacity with our Tacoma and we're now looking for a stronger tow vehicle.

Good luck!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a towing solution.

 

My daughter and I will switch vehicles every time we use the Oliver. She will take my RAV4 (and save on her fuel cost) and we will get her 2008 Silverado LTZ 4WD CC short bed truck with towing package. We will save on fuel cost, compared to using our Duramax big dually and have a very able tow vehicle for the Oliver, with thousands of pounds of extra towing capacity, along with a truck bed to carry other goodies, like our two Honda 2000i generators, with gas can.

 

Problem solved.

 

Doug

 

PS: Now I have to decide if I am going to install the towing equipment I purchased for the RAV4, so I can give that option a try, once I get the Oliver back home, in late October. I think I could use the RAV4 to tow the Oliver on in-state trips, down to the coast for example. I don't tow at speeds over 55 mph, and I think the RAV4 would do fine as long as it stays out of the mountains. I have air bags ordered for it so I can keep it level with the Oliver tongue (fully extended) weight on the hitch.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

Ok, everybody... I went out today and weighed the . There are several items that I have that are not on your standard "as delivered" Legacy Elite. I have the front carrier for a generator. I couldn't tell you what it weighs but probably at least 25 pounds. I also have an extended tongue beyond what everyone else has that probably added another 15-20 pounds. I have the twin bed option that has been reported as weighing 100 pounds. On board, when weighed, were tools and other necessities in the amount of about 45 pounds that should not be considered in the weight of the trailer. These total around 185 pounds. There was no water in any of the holding tanks. The exact weight of the trailer was 3660 pounds. Subtracting the "extras" leaves 3475 pounds. This is well within the "estimated" delivery weight of the trailer.

 

I hope this helps to settle the questions everyone has been having about the weight of their trailers.

 

Steve

Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher, Lucy and Rocky plus our beloved Storm and Maggie (both waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0026 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0050 2017 Silverado High Country 2500HD Diesel 4x4 

 

      ALAKAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA       ABBCMBNSYTsm.jpg

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve, thanks for weighing your trailer. What we are unsure about is whether or not your trailer was built prior to or after Oliver added the extra 240 pounds of additional insulation to the fiberglass shells of the Oliver. By the weight of your trailer, it would appear that yours was built after this weight was added, but that is only an assumption on my part.

 

What this confirms is that the Oliver Legacy Elite will, when filled with propane, some fresh water in the fresh water tank, a full hot water heater (6 gallons), personal gear, groceries, and a full refrigerator will weigh well in excess of 3,500 pounds, perhaps as much as 3,800 or 3,900 pounds and should NOT be towed by a TV rated to tow only 3,500 pounds. If you add a generator, extra fuel, or firewood, and some other toys you could easily hit 4,000 pounds. It would not be wise to tow with a TV that is rated for less than 4,000 pounds, and 5,000 pounds would be even smarter, especially if you have passengers and other items in the TV.

 

Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

I too, have had my Oliver weighed. This occurred at the rally in Bandon, Oregon in July. The trailer was finished in Mid June and has the heavier axle and dual batteries. T.V. antenna in place of the King Dome. At the time it was weighed I had 4 days worth of food, clothing (as cold as it was at the rally I did not have enough or the right clothing) some tools, camping chairs, camping table, a spare battery with attached jumper cables, 12v air pump and 1/2 full of fresh water. Hitch weight 340, axle weight 3560 total weight 3900 lbs. On the Casita Club Forum there is an interesting read about a month and 1/2 ago about a Casita and a Police chase. I have no way of verifying this story but have no reason to doubt it. This tale will give you a new prospective on safety versus gas mileage when choosing a tow vehicle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a towing solution.

 

My daughter and I will switch vehicles every time we use the Oliver. She will take my RAV4 (and save on her fuel cost) and we will get her 2008 Silverado LTZ 4WD CC short bed truck with towing package. We will save on fuel cost, compared to using our Duramax big dually and have a very able tow vehicle for the Oliver, with thousands of pounds of extra towing capacity, along with a truck bed to carry other goodies, like our two Honda 2000i generators, with gas can.

 

Problem solved.

 

Doug

 

PS: Now I have to decide if I am going to install the towing equipment I purchased for the RAV4, so I can give that option a try, once I get the Oliver back home, in late October. I think I could use the RAV4 to tow the Oliver on in-state trips, down to the coast for example. I don't tow at speeds over 55 mph, and I think the RAV4 would do fine as long as it stays out of the mountains. I have air bags ordered for it so I can keep it level with the Oliver tongue (fully extended) weight on the hitch.

Sounds like a terrific plan. Glad it came together for you. I think you'll be surprised initially how well the Rav4 will tow the Oliver on the flats but you'll also quickly realize its limitations. Coincidently, the Silverado or equivilent Sierra is what I'm currently looking at to replace my Tacoma. Please keep us informed on your impressions using both tow vehicles. That would be a great read especially for newcomers to towing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Beeser, tell me more about your Tacoma. I have thought that would be a great option for towing the Oliver. Does it have the factory towing package? Two or four wheel drive? What mileage do you get towing your trailer with the Tacoma? What mileage by itself? Year and miles on the vehicle?

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

Beeser, tell me more about your Tacoma. I have thought that would be a great option for towing the Oliver. Does it have the factory towing package? Two or four wheel drive? What mileage do you get towing your trailer with the Tacoma? What mileage by itself? Year and miles on the vehicle?

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

2004 Tacoma 2wd Prerunner (V6) automatic with about 38k miles

Factory tow package

20-21 mpg highway/16-17 mpg city

13-15 mpg towing regardless of conditions

 

As I said before, the Tacoma tows my 3700# (loaded) Bigfoot OK on the flats. Anywhere else with hills is frustrating.

Link to post
Share on other sites

While we have not had our Oliver Legacy Elite weighed, the title transfer document that we got when we picked it up last month says that it weighs 3,400 pounds. Additionally, the VIN sticker on the outside of the trailer states the following about the weight:

 

GVWR 1814 KG (4000 LB)

GAWR ALL 1814 KG (4000 LB) PER AXLE WITH 15 TIRE 15X6J RIM

AT 345 KPA (50 PSI) COLD SINGLE

 

Reference to the "15 TIRE" is because we got the 15-inch tires and 4-inch lift option.

 

We were quite surprised that the Oliver weighs considerably more than we had been led to believe. However, our TV (2002 Suburban 1/2 ton) has handled it without any real strain, even up (and back down!) the very steep 6,500-foot grade into Kings Canyon National Park from California's Central Valley.

 

Steve

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I want to thank everyone who took the time to weigh their trailer and post the results. Though I'm a little shocked at how much the weight has escalated in the evolution of the design, I'll be a little better prepared knowing the facts in advance. Fortunately, I'll still be comfortably below my tow capacity.

 

What DOES concern me a little, however, is that the CCC has actually decreased from 1100 lbs. (3500-2400) to only 600 lbs. (4000-3400), based on Astrocaster's sticker info. After subtracting about 350 lbs. for full fresh water (including water heater) and full propane tanks, that only leaves about 250 lbs. for additional gear. To me, that's cutting it awfully close.

 

I would hope that the factory consider raising the GVWR to at least 4500 lbs. to provide a reasonable amount of cargo carrying capacity. This figure would put the CCC back to 1100 lbs., which is where the original design started. With a 5000 lb. axle and a strengthened frame, I do not see why this would not be possible. In all reality, the current 4000 GVWR limit will likely be exceeded by many owners.

 

BuffaloBob and Northwoods, any chance of this happening?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how the GVWR for a trailer is established? I suppose it takes some engineering calculations (strength of materials)? I don't know if it is established by the manufacturer and certified by some independent party. It may not be independently certified.

 

I also wonder what the weakest link in the GVWR calculation would be for the Oliver? My guess is it would be the frame, then the tires and wheels. With a 5,000 pound rated axle it would not be that.

 

It would also be helpful to our understanding of weight distribution if we knew the sequence of the holding tanks, say from front to back. In what order are the tanks (fresh water, grey water, and black water) located within the frame?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fresh and grey water tanks are both long and flat rectangles that are seated side by side inbetween the hulls and into the frame. They run from front to back, and thus the weight on those tanks is pretty fully distributed. The black water tank sits directly underneath the toilet on the front streetside of the trailer (aside for the apx 6 gallons of pipe that goes to the dump in the rear, which accounts for some fo the capacity.)

 

 

We too are quite concerned about the CCC given these new measurements. As we fulltime, we *have* to keep everything we own in either the TV or the trailer, and were lead to believe we would have ample capacity to carry what we needed. We weren't even told that the insulation method was being changed until after it was applied and now to find out that it took away 250 lbs of our carry capacity. Well, yes, this is disappointing to us to learn now that we're out on the road and potentially traveling unsafely.

 

I too would like to hear an official response from Oliver on this issue.

 

- Cherie

Link to post
Share on other sites

...I also wonder what the weakest link in the GVWR calculation would be for the Oliver? My guess is it would be the frame, then the tires and wheels. With a 5,000 pound rated axle it would not be that...

Don't know for sure but I too suspect the frame is the weakest component primarily because of the aluminum. There was a molded fiberglass travel trailer with an aluminum frame made years ago that was prone to bend and subsequently break at the wishbone immediately in front of the trailer body. However, I don't recall it having a central boxed spine as with the Oliver. The other part that would concern me, especially with the added weight discussed here, is the extended tongue. Modified with added accessories like generators, etc. makes it even more worrisome.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The good news is that no one that we know of has had any problems with their trailer weight. The axle, the frame and the shells have all been beefed up. In my mind, the only issue is with the adequacy of our tow vehicles.

 

Short of putting rocks in the trailer or traveling with full fresh water and or holding tanks, there is not enough room to put all that much weight inside the unit. If I were full timing in the Oliver, I would use a full size V8 pickup, with a shell as my TV.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fresh and grey water tanks are both long and flat rectangles that are seated side by side inbetween the hulls and into the frame. They run from front to back, and thus the weight on those tanks is pretty fully distributed. The black water tank sits directly underneath the toilet on the front streetside of the trailer (aside for the apx 6 gallons of pipe that goes to the dump in the rear, which accounts for some fo the capacity.)

 

 

We too are quite concerned about the CCC given these new measurements. As we fulltime, we *have* to keep everything we own in either the TV or the trailer, and were lead to believe we would have ample capacity to carry what we needed. We weren't even told that the insulation method was being changed until after it was applied and now to find out that it took away 250 lbs of our carry capacity. Well, yes, this is disappointing to us to learn now that we're out on the road and potentially traveling unsafely.

 

I too would like to hear an official response from Oliver on this issue.

 

- Cherie

I'll probably receive some flak from this but those of you that have dressed your Olivers with numerous accessories should have realized that added weight would be a consequence. It seems to me that Oliver has gone out their way to increase the load carrying capacity of the trailer by installing a stronger axle and springs without increasing the price. I hope it doesn't turn out to be a favor that comes back to haunt them. Sitting on the sidelines with an Oliver purchase I have to admit seeing some of this coming. While Oliver has been trying very hard to get a product off the ground I'm sure they've been hit with countless suggestions, probably most of them having to to with added features. They have surely been accommodating based on the kudos expressed here on this forum. But all of this "one more itis" comes with a price. I think the direction of this thread should take pause and remember what Oliver has accomplished with respect to molded fiberglass trailer advancement. The end user has a role in that process too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly don't fault Oliver for improving their trailer by adding more weight in the form of a stronger axle, frame and shell. I appreciate the improvements.

 

However, I do think there is room for both Oliver and their customers to be more mindful of weight considerations, by discussing every added or deleted option in terms of added or deleted weight as well as added or deleted cost, and by revealing the as built base weight of the Elite or the Classic, depending on which unit the customer is starting with.

 

I had a very good idea of the weight issues simply because of my prior RV experience, but many customers are lacking that perspective. One of the reasons I added special propane tanks and did not go up to the 30 pound tanks was to lighten the weight on the tongue and trailer. Same for the spare, opting for the lighter weight alloy wheel.

 

Several standard features and options are very light weight, but expensive (rear view camera, satellite dome, inverters, smart chargers, solar panels, cell phone signal amplifier and repeater, generator quick connect), but they do add up. The real weight hogs are the air conditioner, microwave/convection oven, awning, second battery, twin bed option, dual pane windows, and twin 30 pound propane tanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Beeser.. we're not stupid. We know that the accessories we added have consequences. We carefully considered each option for it's benefits and drawbacks. Recall Chris' posting about the porcelian toilet for an example of the depth of decision making we made. Heck, look at any of his postings. I have multiple spreadshets on my computer showing weights of different solar panels, invertors, etc. that we considered, for example. We also deleted several options to compensate for the extra weight that selected - such as the microwave, AV system, electrical cord reel and downgrading our A/C size, etc. Obviously we're well aware of our role in adding options.

 

 

What i'm concerned about at this point is that the base starting place of the weight given to us to spec from was not accurate. The insulation, which was not a customization requested by us and we were given no choice in it, added 250 lbs to the weight of the trailer. If we don't have accurate information on the base weight, you really can't go telling me it's all our faults for adding extras. I can't make an informed decision on what options to add/delete to get my CCC to where I need it if I don't have accurate information.

 

This is where the factory has a responibility to give their customer's accuirate information on their baseline.

 

- Cherie

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cherie - I didn't say you were stupid and never would suggest it. I realize you meticulously researched the options but perhaps you assumed too much regarding the base dry weight. The current Oliver website shows a dry weight for the Legacy at 2400 lbs. Maybe this was recently changed and the previous published weight wasn't clearly specified as being for the base Legacy. However, with only one weight shown it seems reasonable to me that it would be for the base unit. Perhaps, in hind sight, that was a question to raise with the factory prior to purchase. As for the added insulation weight, manufacturers make design and manufacturing changes all the time. I have never seen a manufacturer held to precise details contained in a sales brochure. Assuming you only have issue with the added weight, why not ask Oliver for assistance in resolving your towing limitations. They may have some ideas. I wish you well in your travels.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We did inquire about the weight before ordering, actually - and were basing our decisions off of weight off of the Legacy Elite estimates given to us.

 

The insulation change was made after we ordered, and we were only the third to receive the new method of insulation. At no time were we told that the base weight was increased so much as a result. And I'm not so much concerned about the towing limitations (we're rated for 5500) - but rather the capacity of the trailer/axle itself being exceeded.

 

- Cherie

Link to post
Share on other sites

We did inquire about the weight before ordering, actually - and were basing our decisions off of weight off of the Legacy Elite estimates given to us.

 

The insulation change was made after we ordered, and we were only the third to receive the new method of insulation. At no time were we told that the base weight was increased so much as a result. And I'm not so much concerned about the towing limitations (we're rated for 5500) - but rather the capacity of the trailer/axle itself being exceeded.

 

- Cherie

What was the weight that you were told for the Legacy Elite? I'm confused, I thought Oliver changed the axle to a heavier duty one with a 4500 or 5000 lb. rating. Is that not the case with your build?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe we were told the axle is 5000 with 3500 springs. At least, that's what Chris recalls.

 

And yes, we do sometimes need to tow with full fresh water tanks - such as later this week when we head to Burning Man for 10-12 days (middle of the desert with no access to water or food otherwise.)

 

- Cherie

Link to post
Share on other sites

As was stated before, the crux of this issue is the CCC not the actual base weight. You can always upgrade the TV to accommodate a heavier trailer; however, there's not much you can do about a marginal CCC (other than tossing things out to reduce weight). For all we know, the Oliver is already capable of more than 4000 lbs. gross (let's hope so), but that's a call the mfg. is going to need to make...hopefully before this festers too long.

 

I too typically leave the house with a full fresh water tank, and that is not unreasonable. I always subtract the weight of full water and propane to arrive at a 'usable CCC' when comparing trailers. Simply stated, 250 lbs. is insufficient for any travel trailer.

 

FWIW, I also confirmed prior to purchase that the 240/2400 weights (the only ones ever published) correspond to an Elite model. Honestly, with an 1100 lb. CCC (750 lb. usable CCC), the few number of options I was adding on top of the Elite, and the limited storage space, I did not think it would be remotely possible to reach the gross weight. That scenario changes significantly when you reduce the CCC by 500 lbs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would advise anyone to do their best not to tow with a full tank of water in the fresh water tank. If you have to, buy yourself an inflatable water container and fill your tank after you arrive at the campground, even if you have to go back a few miles to get your water. It saves fuel, and it's just safer to minimize weight while towing, especially on small trailers with relatively large fresh water tanks, like the Oliver. Normally, the only time I will tow with a full tank of water is to my camping site from the fresh water fill elsewhere in the campground. Damn few small trailers have 30 plus gallon fresh water tanks as does the Oliver. It's easy to get buy the first night of camping with only 10 gallons of fresh water, or less, in your fresh water tank, plus the six gallons in the hot water heater.

 

On the rare occasion where you DO have to tow with a full tank of fresh water, get your water as close to your campsite destination as possible, to minimize your towing distance with a full fresh water tank.

 

NEVER have full grey/black water tanks and fill up your fresh water tank before leaving your campground to dump at a dump site several miles away.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...