What's your tow vehicle, it's tow weight rating & what are you towing?

[Raspy]

Steve,

 

I guess you are one of the ones with the 5,200 lb axles.  I'm trying to figure out how many leaves are in your spring packs and how many inches from the top of the axle tube to the frame do you have for suspension travel, out near the wheels (vertical travel before hitting the frame).  If you happen to know these please let me know.

 

I'd be a bit careful about calling your trailer a 10,400 lb gross unless Oliver specifically changed their gross rating when they went to 12" brakes.    That change was the result of a glitch with Dexter, as I recall, and so they switched to the larger axle, but advertised it as an upgrade to 12" brakes, not as an upgrade to 10,400 GVWR.  And nothing else was change on the frame or the fiberglass reinforcing of the body, as far as I know.

 

This is part of the reason I'm asking about the number of leaves and the clearance.   The 5200 lb axle is 5/8' larger in diameter and the suspension travel is somewhat limited as it is.  So the larger axle tube would reduce the available travel unless there is more arch in the springs and more arch would be the result of an additional leaf.   The extra leaf would not be for more weight carrying capacity, but more suspension travel.

 

I'm considering changing to the larger axles and brakes and I want to know just what Oliver did when they changed.  I think they have subsequently returned to the 3500 lb axles, but I'm not sure on that either.

 

Thanks for any info you can give me.

[Try2Relax]

Hey John, they did only use the 5200 for a short time, when they couldn't get the 3500, they never changed the trailer rating for them. It funny because it must have just happened to be when they were doing the website and when someone checked all the equipment, that's what was on there so that's what they listed. This was the big discussion on here last year and they finally updated the website to the 10" specification.

 

I've attached a photo so you can see the 5200 and get what you can from it. It looks like there are 4 leafs. If Steve doesn't I'll give you the measurements later when I'm back to the trailer.

 

[Raspy]

Randy,

 

It looks like from your picture that you have different springs, and I think you must.  On my four leaf setup the fourth or bottom leaf is very short and I can see four leaves in your picture.  There must be five there total which would give you a bit of lift and good suspension travel with the larger diameter axles..

 

It looks like you are installing the EZ Flex as part of the same project and one of your shackles has flipped around in the picture to be "down" instead of "up".  I installed the heavy duty kit on mine which has the same shackles with bronze bushings and zerks, but not the rubber cushioned equalizer.  Nice setup.

 

So, I think you are confirming what I thought, that Oliver did not change the GVW when they temporarily installed some 5200 lb axles.  All they mentioned was the 12" brakes.  Is that right?  And I would like the axles to frame clearance for comparison.

 

How do you like those brakes?   The 5200 axles are very good and the brakes are powerful.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[rideandfly]

Took a photo of our 5200lb axles installed on a few Elite II units.

 

About 3 3/8" from top of axle to fiberglass hull:

 

 

Springs:

 

 

Some Tundra owners with factory brake controller replaced it with a P3 controller. I'm using the Toyota controller in electric brake setting. The 12" brakes are strong on a ready to camp Ollie weighing in at 4950lbs with empty tanks!

 

Our 4X4 Tundra's tow capacity is a little over 9800lbs.

 

Dexter 5200lb  Axle SN: 211277561

 

Hope this helps, happy to take additional photos, if needed!

 

 

[Raspy]

Bill,

 

That helps.  Thanks.  I see you do have the 5 leaf spring packs and that is what I'll need if I do the swap.

 

I'll measure mine to see how 3 3/8" to the hull comes out at the frame rails where the axle actually bottoms.  Should be about 3/4" closer there since the U bolts are the first to come in contact with the frame which is about 3/8" lower than the hull.

 

Is that a dexter part number you included?  Or is it that number that Oliver uses that also describes the length for their ordering?  Did you get that number from the label on the axle?  It would be sweet if I could just give them a part number and be done with it instead of having to measure flange face to flange face on my take-out axles.

 

Thanks again for the help!

[rideandfly]

John,

 

The SN # stamped on one of the Dexter axles:  211277561

 

I have a PDF build file Dexter emailed for that SN, they will email you a file or I'm happy to email the PDF if you send your

 

email in a PM.

 

Dexter folks are very easy to work with, if you have a SN, makes it very easy.

[Raspy]

Bill,

 

Just measured mine to compare.  I have 3 1/8" clearance to the body, above the axle and 2 1/8" from the axle U bolt to the frame rail.  So, yours has about 1/4" more suspension travel clearance.

 

I have witness marks where the U bolts have been contacting the frame (bottoming).  So, with stiffer springs and slightly more clearance it will be a bit better with the 5200 lb axles and the 5 leaf spring packs.  Mine is sitting with a full fresh tank, the four trojan batteries, 30 lb propane tanks and some gear, ready to go.  The rear jacks are not touching the ground.  We'll probably add another 100 lbs max before we go.

 

I installed a set of tandem 12" brakes on another trailer I have that used to have surge brakes.   Love them.  I also built a trailer with tandem 3500 lb axles to haul my small tractor, about 5,000 lbs plus the trailer.  I can fade the brakes and the wheels seem to squat slightly when loaded.   I take my Ollie on some pretty rough roads where the loads can shift from one axle to the other and it seems like the 3500 axles are close to their practical limit.  I also recently read about a couple that took an Escape that weighed about the same as our Ollie up to Alaska and bent both of their 3500 lb axles going over unexpected frost heaves and holes.  When Oliver announced the bigger brakes, I immediately knew it meant the bigger axles too, and I wished I had them.

[rideandfly]

John,

 

Email sent!

[Overland]

John, we'll have the 5200lb axles, but we're also doing the dexter over/under kit which will gain back that clearance plus some.  So if you decide to swap axles & brakes, that's something else you might consider adding to the list.  My only question/concern with having done that is if the suspension travel will now be limited by the shocks.  I'd hate to hit a bump and destroy a shock or rip off its mount almost as much as I'd hate bending an axle.

[Raspy]

Overland,

 

I don't want to raise mine the 4" or so that converting it to spring over would do.  But you could find some rubber bump stops to put under the frame to limit the upward travel.

[rideandfly]

Bill, That helps. Thanks. I see you do have the 5 leaf spring packs and that is what I’ll need if I do the swap. I’ll measure mine to see how 3 3/8″ to the hull comes out at the frame rails where the axle actually bottoms. Should be about 3/4″ closer there since the U bolts are the first to come in contact with the frame which is about 3/8″ lower than the hull. Is that a dexter part number you included? Or is it that number that Oliver uses that also describes the length for their ordering? Did you get that number from the label on the axle? It would be sweet if I could just give them a part number and be done with it instead of having to measure flange face to flange face on my take-out axles. Thanks again for the help!

 

 

 

John,

 

Just took another look  at my axles and measured again.

 

Thought I was level when I took the previously posted photo, but the following measurements are closer.

 

One axle is 3 1/4" and the other is 3 1/16" from top of axle to camper hull. Installed the Dexter EZ flex system, too.

 

Edit: The axle with 3 1/4" of clearance is on the higher end of the Ollie, while at home keep the front higher than the rear. Our Ollie weighs in at 4950lbs with empty water tanks. There are no signs of contact between the axle U bolt and frame. Tow our Ollie on pavement 99% of the time.

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

[ScubaRx]

Steve, I guess you are one of the ones with the 5,200 lb axles. I’m trying to figure out how many leaves are in your spring packs and how many inches from the top of the axle tube to the frame do you have for suspension travel, out near the wheels (vertical travel before hitting the frame). If you happen to know these please let me know. I’d be a bit careful about calling your trailer a 10,400 lb gross unless Oliver specifically changed their gross rating when they went to 12″ brakes. That change was the result of a glitch with Dexter, as I recall, and so they switched to the larger axle, but advertised it as an upgrade to 12″ brakes, not as an upgrade to 10,400 GVWR. And nothing else was change on the frame or the fiberglass reinforcing of the body, as far as I know. This is part of the reason I’m asking about the number of leaves and the clearance. The 5200 lb axle is 5/8′ larger in diameter and the suspension travel is somewhat limited as it is. So the larger axle tube would reduce the available travel unless there is more arch in the springs and more arch would be the result of an additional leaf. The extra leaf would not be for more weight carrying capacity, but more suspension travel. I’m considering changing to the larger axles and brakes and I want to know just what Oliver did when they changed. I think they have subsequently returned to the 3500 lb axles, but I’m not sure on that either. Thanks for any info you can give me.

 

 

 

John, my 5200 lb axles were not the result of any changes by Oliver.  Our trailer (Hull # 050, delivered in early 2014) was the first Elite II built for a customer. They were trying to get back into the swing of building trailers (after their 4 year hiatus) and had yet to decide on exactly what they were going to use for everything. At that time there were no standards for anything. During the build, I was allowed to pick and choose the components I wanted from the air conditioner to the (now standard) fold down center TV mount.  I specified these axles as well as Michelin XPS Rib LT25/75R16/E 115/112Q LRE Tires and 12" brakes in order to make it as heavy duty as possible.  The idea of assigning a GVWR was not thought up until after mine was completed and the assigned 7000 lb figure was based solely on the twin 3500 lb axles that they had decided would be standard.  My stated 10,400 lb GVWR was entirely fabricated by me based on the same criteria they used, 2 x 5200 = 10,400.  Our trailer, ready to travel with food, full fresh water tank, clothes, full 30 lb propane tanks, 3000 watt generator on the tongue and all the other stuff that I think I can't live without weighs well over 7000 lbs (no minimalist here.) I did swap the drum brakes for discs and installed the Dexter EZ-Flex system earlier this year.

 

There are indeed 5 springs in each pack with a 1.875"clearance between the top of the 0.5" U-Bolts and the bottom of the frame.  Like yourself, I have slight indention's in the bottom of the frame where there has been contact.

[Raspy]

Steve,

 

Thanks for all the information.  As I recall, in model year 2016, they advertised an upgrade to 12" brakes and that is what I based some of my assumptions on.  Remember that?  It turned out there was a glitch with Dexter.  I guess all of that happened way after your build, but you were smart to select the 5,200 lb axles.

 

Interesting that they started with hull number 50 when they got going again.   Mine is only hull number 92 and I've seen a lot of changes in them since.  Some good and some bad.  I'm actually glad overall to be in the 2015 model year as it seems they've had some growing pains we don't have to deal with.  But on the other hand there are some things that I don't like too.   The battery wiring on mine is marginal and the small spare tire puzzles me.  I re-mounted my TV on center too with a folding mount.  I also designed the water tank fix and presented it here.   I did mine and Reed Lukens.   Oliver is now doing the same thing I designed on all the new trailers.   I suspect you and I have the same wheels and I discovered they aren't very strong, so I switched mine to a stronger model after destroying one.  Overall, I'm very happy with our Ollie.  It's a keeper.

 

Interesting that you only have 1.875 compression travel before bottoming.  That seems insufficient.  I am amazed that you have added about 2,000 lbs of stuff over what mine weighs.

 

BTW.  I did look carefully at your disk brake installation.  How are they working out?

[Overland]

7000lbs has to be the heaviest I've heard.  I'm not surprised though with that weight that the compression travel is under 2".  So the dents that you're seeing, are they limited to the steel subframe or are they in both the subframe and the aluminum frame?  How large are they?  I'd be interested to see a photo if you get the chance.

 

At one point I was considering getting a local shop to reinforce our subframe at those points for just that reason, but the cost of doing so prevented me from following up on that.  I believe that Oliver has also strengthened the subframe a bit over the years.  I know that it now extends farther forward and back than it did a few years ago, and they may even use a deeper steel angle than they used to though that I'm not sure about.

 

Relating this back to the original topic, I had a few conversations with Oliver about the fact that we're going to be towing with a Raptor, which has an extremely soft, long travel suspension and so has a fairly cushy ride offroad and on gravel.  My fear was that it would lull us into driving too fast for the trailer's suspension on rough roads, not realizing the damage that we might be doing.  I think those conversations are what ultimately convinced Oliver to try the over-under axle swap for us.  Given what you guys are saying, I'm glad they did.

 

BTW, after two attempts at ordering one, our truck is finally in the driveway. While I can't comment on the towing experience yet, I can say that we're completely thrilled with it in every other respect.

[Raspy]

As far as the witness marks from the axle U bolts contacting the frame, it's not a dent.  Just a small mark at each location that tells me it has been making contact.

 

I'd like to put a rubber stop in there, but it would further limit the travel.

 

There is a lot of flexing going on with the frame.  I hear it creaking when I put a rear jack down, for instance.  The whole system with a stiff body, a frame and a subframe makes for a complex system.  I sort of liken it to towing a boat on a boat trailer.  In that case, the trailer doesn't add rigidity to the boat, it merely supports it and pulls it along.  The rear section of Ollie's frame is not very large and looks like it's doing sort of the same thing.  It kind of spreads the load from the subframe to the body.  Up front the frame is massive and has to resist bending down between the ball and the sub-frame.  Interesting design.

 

The five leaf spring packs will be stiffer and lift it some, but the increase in axle diameter takes back some of that benefit.  My trailer doesn't weight as much as Steve's as I only occasionally carry a genny and it lives in the truck, no tongue basket and we are trying to keep it simple.   I haven't actually weighed mine, but I have weighed the tongue with my scale at 485 lbs if I remember correctly.

 

I've noticed that Ollie rides very well and is compliant over bumps.  With the equalizer and very rough roads, it's conceivable that it could bottom one axle just from working it's way over a big hole.  It's also a good idea to air down for extended rough areas.   I run at 60 PSI regularly, but 30-40 might make more sense in the desert as it would take the jarring out of the bumps and let the tires conform.  I do think though, it's easy to not notice how much abuse the trailer is getting on rough roads.  On my Death Valley trip with our old toy hauler that was the same length an weight as our Ollie, it took a thrashing even though I was going slow and watching it.  I aired down too.  It was surprising just how much it came apart and that lead me to decide to get rid of it.  So far with Ollie, only the dinette cushions, the dinette window covering and a couple of the overhead compartments have had problems.  My center mounted TV wouldn't stay up so I had to run a strap under it.   My Ram 3500 Cummins SRW rides so rough I'm not tempted to speed.

 

I am curious about the spring over modification.  With the right springs and stops, that could allow a very compliant suspension and better ground clearance.  Excellent for following the Raptor out into the wild.   I just hope it is still stable.  If the suspension was made softer and the height increased won't it reduce stability?

[Overland]

I just hope it is still stable. If the suspension was made softer and the height increased won’t it reduce stability?

Well, we'll find out soon enough!

 

On my wish list for the Ollie is the Centerpoint suspension, which replaces the equalizer with air bags.  That might also be an option for you as it raises the trailer I believe an inch or two, and can be adjusted on the fly if you carry a compressor.

 

There are free iPhone apps available that will collect and export accelerometer data, so after I get the trailer I plan to do some test runs on gravel.  That way I can compare the truck to the trailer and at least have some idea of what's going on back there.  It will also help evaluate different tire pressures and such.

[Raspy]

Raspy wrote:

I just hope it is still stable. If the suspension was made softer and the height increased won’t it reduce stability?

Well, we’ll find out soon enough! On my wish list for the Ollie is the Centerpoint suspension, which replaces the equalizer with air bags. That might also be an option for you as it raises the trailer I believe an inch or two, and can be adjusted on the fly if you carry a compressor. There are free iPhone apps available that will collect and export accelerometer data, so after I get the trailer I plan to do some test runs on gravel. That way I can compare the truck to the trailer and at least have some idea of what’s going on back there. It will also help evaluate different tire pressures and such.

 

Excellent comments.  I can hardly wait to see your modifications.   Keep us posted!

 

I'll look up the Center Point suspension.

 

Thanks!

[Try2Relax]

Not to go off topic, okay maybe a little off..

 

I was perusing other forums and someone mentioned Bruder, they are pretty impressive and have plenty of suspension travel for you.

 

http://bruderx.com/gallery/

 

Oh, don't forget to read the FAQ page

[ScubaRx]

 

Quote

Steve, Thanks for all the information....Interesting that they started with hull number 50 when they got going again...

 

Larry (mountainborn) and Betty Harmon bought the very first Oliver (Hull #005) sold on 11/08/2007. There were four units produced prior to this one and three of them were ultimately sold to other owners but when Larry and Betty drove out of the factory nearly ten years ago pulling the first one, they started the parade that we've all joined since then. Of the members still active on our forum, Paul and Sherry (seadawg) left with Hull #012 on 02/22/2008, then Pete Marks (bugeyedriver) in Hull #014 on 03/24/2008. We bought Hull #026 on 06/20/2008. All of these hull numbers were for the original 17 (now called 18.5) foot models produced in their first run and they continued until the last unit (Hull #044) was sold on 08/21/2009.

 

During the last few months of the original production run, the molds for the Elite II had been bought with the intent to begin production of a larger model to augment the lineup with the choice of two sizes. As we all remember, the downturn in the economy in 2009 caused many businesses to fail and Oliver Travel Trailers made the very difficult desicion to cease production until better times could prevail. The plans for the larger trailer (and more expensive) seemed destined to failure. Three units were produced in 2009 and 2010 - Hulls #043, #045 and #046. One unit was sold to a customer (Hull #045) and became the only unit delivered with the official model year of 2010. The other two remained in the possession of OTI although Hull #043 was ultimately refurbished, updated and sold during the present production run. As a side note, no Oliver employees were laid off or lost their jobs because of the ceasation of trailer production and many rejoined the trailer line when it restarted.

 

On 03/03/2013, I was contacted by (then production manager) Robert Partee and asked if I would be interested in owning one of the "big" trailers. He knew we were looking for something larger than our 17 foot Oliver and after talking for about 5 minutes with him explaining that the plan was for restarting production building only the larger unit, I told him I would take the first one they built.

 

Their plan was to build three "prototype/demo" models to get back into the swing of things. During the production of these three, my unit was begun somewhere around the end of the year (2013). Since none of these four trailers had been sold, and upon completion of our unit, I was given my choice of the VIN's that were available (#'s 047-050.) I choose Hull #050 because that was the year I was born.

 

 

Quote

...I also designed the water tank fix and presented it here. I did mine and Reed Lukens. Oliver is now doing the same thing I designed on all the new trailers...

 

Every member (present and future) owes you a debt of gratitude for your initiative and inventiveness on this modification. I had mine done at the factory during the "eclipse weekend." Thank you very much.

 

 

Quote

...BTW. I did look carefully at your disk brake installation. How are they working out?

 

The brakes have been wonderful. Not too difficult to install, but obviously more than some folks would want to tackle in the driveway. I have found that they are much more aggresive than the drums, requiring a lesser setting on our brake controller to keep them from all locking up and sliding down the road. Incidentaly, I discovered the locking up when I glanced in the side rear view mirror during a reasonably emergent stop to the side of the road and noticed blue smoke coming from under the trailer and two black streaks behind me. It surprised me and for a second, I could not figure out what was going on because I did not feel any abnormal trailer movement. We do not use any auxiliary towing equipment. Our Oliver's are truly VERY stable behind our tow vehicles. We do not use any axuallery towing equipment.

[ScubaRx]

...As far as the witness marks from the axle U bolts contacting the frame, it’s not a dent. Just a small mark at each location that tells me it has been making contact....

 

Ditto, you can barely feel the mark with your fingertip.

[Raspy]

Steve,

 

Thanks for the kind words and the detailed information.

 

There is another Oliver here in Smith Valley, NV that we first saw some years ago and every year since.  The owners take it to the small fair we have here every year so she can hang out while he looks at the cars.  It has also become an informal office during the event.  I thought it was a very cute and fun looking trailer.  We were trying to remember what year we first saw it and we think it was 20o9, but not sure.  It's an Elite and the distinguishing feature is it's black. I doubt many black ones were made.

 

The present owner is not the original owner.  Do you know anything about a black Elite from around that time or earlier?

[ScubaRx]

In the early days Oliver toyed with the idea of different colored trailers. They abandoned that idea due to the difficulty of painting every exterior item to match and the additional cost. However, there were two early Oliver's that were painted and sold. Hull #010 is red and currently owned by our forum member bshaffer. I'm not sure of the Hull # of the other (probably #009 or #011) but it was black and dubbed the "Gamblers Edition" due to the unique graphics and interior upholstery. After construction, both of these units were loaded onto a flatbed truck and shipped out West (Jim Oliver has a house in Lake Havasu, AZ) where they were ultimately sold.  They also had a partially painted hull section that was blue.

[Mike and Carol]

I hereby nominate Steve as the official Oliver Travel Trailer Historian!

[Overland]

It's interesting that both of those trailers, red and black, were at the factory, parked together in the big parking lot, when my wife and I first visited in December of 2015.  I don't know why they were there but I'm glad we got the opportunity to see them.

[topgun2]

I second Mike & Carol's nomination of Steve for the exalted position of HISTORIAN!

 

Bill