Off-pavement recovery - equipment and best methods

[topgun2]

Randy -

I think that I've got a drill extension that I used to use for the stabilizers on my old stick builts. If you are attending the Owner's Rally, I'll bring it along and you can have it if it works for you.

 

Bill

[Overland]

Mentioning the gap beneath the bottom bolts made me go check mine. Oliver did the install and I'd just assumed they were flush to the bottom of the tongue. They look like they do from the side, but there's actually about a ⅛" gap. I'm not sure if I''m worried about it though. It doesn't look like it wants to move, and if it does get knocked out of place that ⅛" I can always remount it. On the other hand, if I find myself standing next to some ⅛" aluminum at Home Depot I might as well grab it.

 

It's an interesting install underneath the trailer. For occasional use I can't see anything wrong with it, though for me using it every time we unhitch it would be too inconvenient. I've found that the springs on the two sets of pins are fairly stiff and so you might find that pulling them from that angle is difficult. But maybe if you grease them well they'll slide smoothly and not give you trouble. I wonder if an access port on the side of the propane cover would allow you to run a long extension to the crank from the outside, sort of like an old starter crank for a car.

[Try2Relax]

Bill, thanks for the offer. I won't be at the rally as that is my busy time for work. The "crank" on these is not standard, the head is approx ½" long and ⅜" wide with straight sides and rounded ends, their handle is welded together with that custom socket head welded to the handle. I need to find a ratcheting crescent wrench thingy.

 

The new tongues are much taller, so they fit the mount better, I wouldn't feel as bad with just ⅛", whereas it supports the weight of the trailer I would have just put the bottom tight and left the gap at the top.

 

I don't mind lying on the ground when I deal with the handle, I only plan to use this for tight space positioning (it takes me forever to get it turned around in my driveway with the truck) and getting down there gives me the opportunity to keep an eye on things.

[John E Davies]

The XO has been received and mostly installed. There is no room on the old frame, in the outside area, which was fine as I planned to install it out of the way anyways. This thing is seriously robust and will add some tongue weight. The only real drawback to this location is the extension crank handle won’t work, the mechanism is smoooth enough working though that I can turn it with my fingers at this point

 

That is a very cool installation. OTH I have some serious reservations about the location, since the jack will be dead center in the blast of spray and gravel coming off the tires of your TV. How do you intend it keep it functioning smoothly and not get totally blasted and corroded?

 

I do have to say that a Stone Stomper would provide excellent protection, but getting access to the jack would be time consuming and a little frustrating at certain times.

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Overland]

Well we actually got our Ollie stuck in the mud this weekend. Or I guess technically we got the truck stuck trying to pull the Ollie out of the field we'd camped in. We'd picked a nice open field at Land Between the Lakes and we both knew that it was a bit risky since it was predicted to rain on Sunday morning. And per my earlier post, we also knew well that the soil at LBL is like grease when it's saturated. But the spot was at the top of a little rise and I figured that getting out we'd have the weight of the trailer in our favor.

 

But of course to get the trailer turned around Sunday morning, I had to pull it around and off that little hill a bit, and the moment we got off of it we hit softer soil. Four low, diffs locked, all four wheels just spun. Fortunately we had our Maxtrax and a pair of bridging ladders and those worked like a charm. It was slow going, since we had to re-lay the tracks every 10 or 12 feet, but less than 20 minutes later we were back on gravel and washing off the mud.

 

Moral of the story - you might feel like an idiot buying and carrying that stuff around, but when you need it, you need it. I highly recommend at least a set of Maxtrax in the vehicle, even if your only adventure off road is to pull ten feet off into your camping spot. Since we don't have a winch on the truck yet, had we not had the Maxtrax, our day would have involved a long hike in the rain to find a ranger or hunter to help pull us and the trailer out.

 

Innocuous looking little camp site, isn't it? Maybe 60 feet off the gravel? Takes less than that to ruin your day.

 

[John E Davies]

It was slow going, since we had to re-lay the tracks every 10 or 12 feet, but less than 20 minutes later we were back on gravel and washing off the mud.

 

Pictures please! I am really glad you got unstuck but want to see. How did you wash the mud off?

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Overland]

I wish I had some now. Situations like that my brain goes into emergency mode so I don't think to take pics. The only one I've got is of my wife carrying the Maxtrax back afterwards and she'd be mad if I posted it because her hair is frizzy from the rain.

 

We actually didn't get much mud on the trailer, just us from pulling the tracks out of the mud and repositioning them and of course the truck. We had the presence of mind not to spin the wheels trying to get out. I waited until we got home to clean off the tracks and truck, which was a mistake since it rained all the way back and the mud caked on the tracks ended up on everything in the bed of the truck.

 

We used the outside shower to clean off our hands and shoes. Oliver needs to add a water pump switch back there so you don't have to track mud in the trailer to turn the pump on.

[topgun2]

Glad you got Snowball out! With regards to the water pump switch near the outside shower - ScubaRx has done that mod and I've been meaning to do it myself. Perhaps - if you are going to the Rally we can get Steve to give us a little show and tell. Can't be too hard - its just a switch or two.

Bill

[John E Davies]

my brain goes into emergency mode so I don’t think to take pics.

 

LOL, I also get fully distracted in Emergency Mode. Fortunately my wife is ussually well away from the action, dirt, and stress, so she has snapped a few great pics in the past. Having a great camera on your phone really helps.

 

Some of the isolated forest, farm and ranch roads around here, especially the unmaintained ones marked “Primitive Road No Warning Signs”, can get grease slick after a sudden rain but fortunately the air is so dry that the ground dries out very fast, within hours usually. I bet that isn’t the case at LBL. I was there a few times camping and dirt biking when I was a youngster, I do remember that there was mud....

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[Overland]

My wife noticed on Saturday that the grey water was pooling on the ground at the end of our hose, so the soil was saturated and I think it had been a week since the last rain there. So yes, it takes a while to dry out.

 

Funny thing was that we were talking about a winch on the way up and my wife thought it would be better to prioritize getting a fridge for the truck. The winch got bumped to the top of the list on Sunday.

[Cort]

Unless I'm missing something I don't see much to attach a tow rope to the front of the Oliver should you be unable to pull it out while it's attached to the tow vehicle. I'm convinced I could get my tow vehicle out of just about anything - but the Oliver? I just don't know. I was counting on detaching it from the tow vehicle and then getting at it either by pulling or with a winch but I don't know. (MY winch is not rated to pull both vehicles) . 

There are the safety chain hooks - I could see getting a soft shackle to attach to them but the shackles they are attached to seem really puny. They are rated to hold the trailer, though, but pulling it out of stuck place - that might be another story.  Attaching a  tow rope all the way to the axle is quite a stretch - it must be 18 feet or so.  I  don't see doing that. 

There is the XO Jack if it can handle the weight. There's also the coupler at that point sticking off the top - it's a big edgy (hopefully it would not rip a soft shackle) and then there's big crossbeam stretching back from the front of the trailer. It's a little funky - it's really big and it hits up against the fiberglass shell but its obviously really strong. 

Hopefully, I will never be in this situation but it would be good to know the best attachment point. Right now I guess I would go with the safety chains first - they would probably give the most even pull. 

????

[SeaDawg]

If we got ourselves into that crazy situation,  I'd "probably " attach our chains to the tow,strap clip. 

Every situation is different. 

A number if years ago, we got ourselves into  a sticky wicket in New Hampshire. We attached , disengagaged, and reattached several times to get a better angle, with our 4x4 dodge. 

I'd try that first, vs tow strap, or winch cable, or combo, imo.

If you do decide on a tow strap route, please make sure the tow strap is fairly new, and rated for the job. We've broken a few, over the years, that were older. The snap back could be lethal. Got a big hole in the tailgate of our dodge ram from inadequate/aged strap, trying to haul a tree out of the road. Had anyone been in the trajectory,  it could have been deadly. Everyone was in the truck. Out of the way.

We are very careful about that, tow strap or winch cable. Please do the same.

[Steve Morris]

18 hours ago, Cort said:

There is the XO Jack if it can handle the weight.

I have an ARK XO500 Jockey Wheel on my Hiker squaredrop, and it is an engineering marvel! They didn't have the XO350 when I bought mine in 2017, so the 500 Kg model is way over what I'd need for the 800 pound trailer. I'm probably at 1/10th the limit on tongue weight. Many other Hiker Trailer owners have added one since I showed ours at a gathering, and now Hiker even offers the tube version as a factory option. With that little trailer, it is easy for one person to roll it around on a driveway, grass, or packed gravel. We used it to maneuver the trailer into sites I couldn't back into, or to rotate the trailer to take advantage of views. IT was the best modification I ever made to that trailer.

 

The XO750 would fit the Oliver's tongue without the front basket option. I don't know how much it would pivot out of the way, but at least as much as the retracted current jack.

Videos of the ARK Jockey Wheel being used in Australia are crazy! They hook up a trailer by the safety chains and drag it though mud, sand, river crossings, and more. It is a very robust system! And six years later, parked outside, it still looks as good as new.

A word of warning if anyone goes this route. Use chocks! The bearings are so good that even any unnoticed slope will start the trailer rolling. I learned this from personal experience! 😲 

[Cort]

On 10/24/2023 at 6:47 PM, SeaDawg said:

If we got ourselves into that crazy situation,  I'd "probably " attach our chains to the tow,strap clip. 

Every situation is different. 

A number if years ago, we got ourselves into  a sticky wicket in New Hampshire. We attached , disengagaged, and reattached several times to get a better angle, with our 4x4 dodge. 

I'd try that first, vs tow strap, or winch cable, or combo, imo.

If you do decide on a tow strap route, please make sure the tow strap is fairly new, and rated for the job. We've broken a few, over the years, that were older. The snap back could be lethal. Got a big hole in the tailgate of our dodge ram from inadequate/aged strap, trying to haul a tree out of the road. Had anyone been in the trajectory,  it could have been deadly. Everyone was in the truck. Out of the way.

We are very careful about that, tow strap or winch cable. Please do the same.

Thanks Sea Dawg. Thats really something - the tow strap putting a hole in the tailgate! Always have to be very careful.  It's best, of course, to not get in that situation and my set up (4wd van) is vastly superior to what I had before. Plus with the Oliver I'm much more conservative anyway. You never know, though. 

[Cort]

11 hours ago, Steve Morris said:

I have an ARK XO500 Jockey Wheel on my Hiker squaredrop, and it is an engineering marvel! They didn't have the XO350 when I bought mine in 2017, so the 500 Kg model is way over what I'd need for the 800 pound trailer. I'm probably at 1/10th the limit on tongue weight. Many other Hiker Trailer owners have added one since I showed ours at a gathering, and now Hiker even offers the tube version as a factory option. With that little trailer, it is easy for one person to roll it around on a driveway, grass, or packed gravel. We used it to maneuver the trailer into sites I couldn't back into, or to rotate the trailer to take advantage of views. IT was the best modification I ever made to that trailer.

 

The XO750 would fit the Oliver's tongue without the front basket option. I don't know how much it would pivot out of the way, but at least as much as the retracted current jack.

Videos of the ARK Jockey Wheel being used in Australia are crazy! They hook up a trailer by the safety chains and drag it though mud, sand, river crossings, and more. It is a very robust system! And six years later, parked outside, it still looks as good as new.

A word of warning if anyone goes this route. Use chocks! The bearings are so good that even any unnoticed slope will start the trailer rolling. I learned this from personal experience! 😲 

I'm learning about chocks.  Twice I took the trailer off the ball without putting the chocks in. Luckily I was on pretty flat ground. Gotta remember that. I contacted ARK - they said the Jack was an excellent recovery point -so that is taken care of - yah! I'm deciding between the tube mount vs the trailer jack. Any ideas?

[Wandering Sagebrush]

On 3/29/2018 at 1:52 AM, John E Davies said:

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John Davies

 

Spokane WA

John, I just stumbled on this thread.   Your adventure trailer looks well made, could you share the brand/builder?

[Steve Morris]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:24 PM, Cort said:

I'm deciding between the tube mount vs the trailer jack. Any ideas?

Hiker Trailer uses a tube mount for their standard jack, and that's what was originally on mine. When I installed my ARK, there wasn't a tube version available, so I straddled the tube with the clamp version.

Hiker now offers the ARK as an option using the tube version, so I've physically seen both in use. There seems to be a lot of slop in the tube to mound fit and in the cross-pin fit, resulting in a substantial amount of movement. One that I saw at the annual Hiker gathering had the jack tilted back 3-5° from vertical. There's also slop in the lateral direction. In hindsight, I'm glad that there wasn't a tube version when I got mine, because I don't think I'd be nearly as pleased with it as I have ben for six years.

So my two cents would be to go with the clamp on version.

 

 

[Cort]

9 hours ago, Steve Morris said:

Hiker Trailer uses a tube mount for their standard jack, and that's what was originally on mine. When I installed my ARK, there wasn't a tube version available, so I straddled the tube with the clamp version.

Hiker now offers the ARK as an option using the tube version, so I've physically seen both in use. There seems to be a lot of slop in the tube to mound fit and in the cross-pin fit, resulting in a substantial amount of movement. One that I saw at the annual Hiker gathering had the jack tilted back 3-5° from vertical. There's also slop in the lateral direction. In hindsight, I'm glad that there wasn't a tube version when I got mine, because I don't think I'd be nearly as pleased with it as I have ben for six years.

So my two cents would be to go with the clamp on version.

 

 

Clamp on it is! Thanks 🙂

[srthomsen]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:21 PM, Cort said:

Thanks Sea Dawg. Thats really something - the tow strap putting a hole in the tailgate! Always have to be very careful.  It's best, of course, to not get in that situation and my set up (4wd van) is vastly superior to what I had before. Plus with the Oliver I'm much more conservative anyway. You never know, though. 

Similar situations happened sometimes on the railroad that I retired from. Using chains or straps it is extremely dangerous.  I did see one man get his arm nearly ripped out of his shoulder socket by a strap that had not been inspected. It had an area that had been pinched that had been deep enough to cut into the inner core of the strap. He was not standing far enough out of the line-of-fire.

[Geronimo John]

On 4/23/2018 at 11:19 PM, Overland said:

We used the outside shower to clean off our hands and shoes. Oliver needs to add a water pump switch back there so you don't have to track mud in the trailer to turn the pump on.

Now that would be an easy mod with real world benefits!  Have on occasion wished it was there, but at the time it was not a priority.  On my "B" list now!

Thanks

GJ