Looking at LE2 for Fulltime - which of my concerns are valid?

[SeaDawg]

Starting with the Whaleys in 2008, others have repurposed the front dinette to a sofa. You can use a folding table or tv trays in the aisle, as a dining set, or just lounge when you want to. Theirs was an original shorty, so there's more room on the counter in the elite ii for prep . Almost none in the original, unless you cover the sink with a cutting board.

Then again, most of us eat and live outside when weather accommodates.

Since you are looking at fulltime, I would definitely look at making the small dinette into a sofa, and a fulltime bed in the back. Remaking dinettes to beds can become a pain, if done daily, imo.

On the big propanectank for winter, you'll probably lease the tank from the company that has a contract to fill up tanks in the park. They usually help with the plumbing, as propane is their business.

I like the idea of wintering over sans gas in a hanger, but could be difficult to find, and dreary without windows. No windows in any hanger our pilot friends own. I would seriously be depressed without sunlight in part of the day.

[HMD1056]

I didn't specifically mean the supersized propane tank when I said bigger Ollie.  It was a more general statement for the changes and needs you listed.  And...well, I was being silly.  "We're gonna need a bigger boat" in Jaws.  Fulltiming, IMHO, would be next to impossible in the small OTT.  One person or a couple, with a few specific wants and needs, could make OTT II work and be very happy.  I believe one of the best upgrades is the Convection/Microwave for those with dietary issues.

[SeaDawg]

Hi, HMD, I understood you. It was a " funny."

That said, we live very comfortably in our little Ollie I, in good weather. Because, we sleep inside, mostly cook and relax outside.

You are correct in saying it's small. Heck, my walkin closet is probably bigger than my Ollie. But, I wouldn't trade my trailer for anything else today, after 11 years.

The bigger Ollie II certainly affords more space inside on inclement days/ winter living. Larger than many tiny homes that I have toured. Just trying to help the op figure it out.

I've personally known three couples who full timed ( for a year or three) in the original small Ollie like ours. Not for me... three months and I am ready to go home. But, that worked for them for a time.

 

Mostly depends on your mindset, wants and needs.

 

Sherry

[WhatDa]

Ahh yes that makes sense now. I would love for an “LE3” or something with a front bed and rear dinette.  That said for the amount we are gone it should work. I’d love a larger trailer but none of them are built or insulated well enough except maybe the outdoors rv/Northwood lines. But I still don’t want a huge trailer with slide outs.

[WhatDa]

For the front dinette a sofa is the leading idea. Or maybe even a loveseat and a wardrobe if it comes to that.

 

For the rear dinette I really want to make that the main dining and sleeping area. One of the spots we have backs into a lake with a sunset view. Combining the fold over bed with a table mechanism like this:

will result in a pretty quick conversion while at the same time we are not sitting on bed surfaces and the cushions are tuned for sitting - at least the two sides of the U.   The mechanism has the added benefit of supporting the table at the middle while it is in the down position. We will lose out on being able to store things under the bed but having that view will be worth it.

[WhatDa]

Dropped my order.  Basically 0 customization available these days so:

 

Standard Floor Plan

Utilities

4x Wet Cell Batteries - minimum for Solar package and I'm not keen on the extra cash for the AGMs when I can get some LiFePO4 for nearly the same $.  Will upgrade them either immediately or next year depending on tax situation.

Solar Package - not ideal, but it's turnkey

Inverter - No - Going for a Victron unit and also to insure not another hole for another 1990s style control panel inside.

30lbs propane tanks.

Truma Heater - long showers I guess - hope it doesn't break

Standard toilet

Easystart

Autodrain - eventually might be worked into an automation system

Decor

Frosted cabinet doors with mirrored rear+bath. -- I liked the mirrored all around but that's no longer an option.

Counters - Dakota fiber-granite.  We actually liked the standard counters for the most part, but the pleather standard tables were not so stellar.

Baron floor -- most neutral looking to us

Flannel cushions -- wife liked them -- not a fan of the ultra fabric at least in pictures

Misc

Radio antenna (not sure if I should change this to TV or not - we stream/downlaod 100% of what we watch.

Dual Power Awnings - hope that wasn't a mistake - onyx vinyl looked good I guess

Weboost 4G-m - already discontinued but still looks good for boundary conditions

WiFi Ranger

WiSight - Maybe running something integrated in what is probably my future F-150 would be better.

Keypad lock - we had an electronic deadbolt in the past and enjoyed the flexibility to go out for a walk/run and not worry about keys.

Basement door - probably for dirty laundry

Propane Quick Connects - maybe a Blackstone or something is in our future

Shower curtain track - at least have the option to put a curtain in

Hypervent

Anderson no-sway - Trying to avoid going to a 3/4 ton or bigger.  Ideally F150 or expedition.  The expedition might get away with no WDH

 

 

We are looking at maybe getting a lot in a few places and then building a "shed"/casita on them with a guest bedroom and washer/dryer and maybe to use for plan B if there is a real cold snap in the winter.

 

Can't wait for Fall to come!  Now to decide/find/buy a tow vehicle...

[Overland]

Congratulations - it's a shame that Oliver doesn't customize anymore, but you'll have fun doing it yourself and you'll be able to control more.

 

I'm curious why you chose the standard toilet if you're going to be boon docking a lot.  A couple of comments -

 

You might look at a Cradlepoint router rather than the weboost and wifi ranger.  It's basically the same thing combined into one unit, but highly configurable and easy to do your own antennas, etc.

 

I saw the new awnings at the rally.  They seem sturdy and well made.

 

If you're at all handy, I'd think about doing your own shower rod rather than the track.  You can do a nice stainless rod across the toilet that functions much better.

 

Some people with the auto drain complain about the control panel lights at night, so something to think about.  It's something you can always add later and then determine for yourself where to put the panel.

 

I'm surprised that Oliver isn't doing the mirrored doors anymore.  I thought that was a popular choice.

 

 

[WhatDa]

Thanks, happy that I we decided, still not 100% happy with some of the compromises.

 

Standard toilet was a wife decision - she would rather deal with the stinky slinky than the composting toilet bin while I am away.

 

RE: Cradlepoint -- looks great - the main reason for the WeBoost is more for our personal cells.  While I  feel both of these options are pretty dated at this point, it was more of a caving in to this being the way the factory will be the one poking all the holes and running cables.  I am still 50/50 on this just to get rid of two more black switch plates and green LEDs inside the cabin.

 

Glad to hear you liked the awnings - I am still hoping to get down to Hohenwald this week or next just to ensure they are what we want.  With powered/manual being the same level of sturdy the powered seemed like the way to go especially with both sides.

 

I'll look into the rod - we definitely need something to keep water away from the toilet and that might be a better multi-use solution.

 

The auto drain install I saw during my demo had the switch in a cabinet, which is where I think 90% of the control panel and doodad switches should go.  I was hoping to wire in a relay later to let a raspberry pi control it.  If the default is another cutout with a switch and light on the interior, this too is dropping off my list and I will do it myself later.

 

Rear door and bathroom cabinet door mirrors are the only offered, not sure why.  Demo had all mirrors and it looked really nice and spacious.

 

I find the level (none) of customization a bit frustrating, but as an industrial engineer I understand why from a quality and training standpoint.  I also get the sense that in the past they got burned with customizations that went over budget and didn't meet customer expectations.  But at the same time I have issues with some of the design decisions that could easily be fixed.  I am going to see what I can get done after "Sale" with the repairs department.

 

 

 

 

[Raspy]

As far as the awnings go, I guess you are talking about the legless, electric model, I think form Dometic.

 

Be sure that is what you want.  They cannot be out in the wind or in the rain as they are "sun"awnings and not strong enough for anything else.  They cannot be set lower of tilted to one side.  Not sure how they back them up inside the structure to take the extreme loading at the mounts.

 

Hopefully, you can look closely at one at Hohenwald.

[WhatDa]

Yes, legless electric.  For 2019 the manuals are also legless.  So everything seems the same except one has a motor and one has a crank with no difference in robustness.  The new awnings are something I really want to see, as the one I toured had the older style with the supports that seemed more robust.

[WhatDa]

Figured it was time to update this thread.  Check's in the mail and we are hull #529 now and taking deliver late September.

 

I ditched the Anderson as we are going for a 3/4 or 1 ton RAM - it's been a slippery slope in the TV department.  Hope I can get my order in for theRAM before I end up buying an MDT.

 

The wife was adamant about standard toilet - so that's what we are going with.

[Raspy]

WhatDa,

 

Excellent!  #529.

 

Wheen deciding on the 3/4 or 1 ton Ram, be sure to remember the 3/4 ton has coil rear springs.  The 1 tons ride very stiff with their leaf springs and have limited articulation.    Are you going with diesel or gas?

 

 

[WhatDa]

John,

 

Undecided on the 2500vs3500: I test drove both and with air on the leaf, the 3500 still felt better empty than the F250.  The 2500 was better, but not by a huge margin (it also had air).  Not quite F150 level plush but pretty good for a HD truck empty.  I currently have about 1700lbs of weight, including the Oliver trailer's tongue on my spreadsheet.  So a 2500 should work with some margin, but the 3500 would allow plenty of extra weight for whatever upgrades or unforecast items end up on the truck.  We want Ramboxes, but those are unavailable for order for now (unknown why).

 

We are going gas primarily because it costs less, the ZF 8 shifts better than the 6 speeders, and weighs a lot less (diesel 2500s have 1900lbs or less payload in crew cab).  Unladen the mileage difference wasn't huge enough to pay off.  We're also leaving Europe where the diesels have been banned or are being banned from many city centers and their used prices have crashed as a result.  Little bit of a bad taste.  With an 8 speed diesel, the 3500 would be more competitive with better shifting and economy, but for 95% of our driving the diesel experience will be worse.  For the other 5%, I can listen to the hemi wind up over the hill.

 

So we've settled on just about everything except 2500 vs 3500 and crew vs mega cab (one more space to put things!).

 

Steven

[WhatDa]

Just following up as today I got to crawl around two more RAMs.  The non-HO diesel actually drives fairly nice.  I wouldn't mind having one if that's what gets me the other features I want - but I don't think I'd order one at the prices they are asking either.  Historically diesel held their premium cost in value and sometimes more than the gassers but I am not certain that will hold for the future.  A diesel would mean 3500 as the 2500 Laramie Cummins I looked at today had 1800lbs payload.

 

I messed around with a mega cab - and was a little underwhelmed.  Payload was 2500lbs (300-400 less than the comparable crews). No huge gain in space in the back (it had the upgraded sound system so 2/3 of the "bin" was consumed by speaker and amp.   The real bonus is being able to hang coats/suits behind the seats and my carryon luggage barely fit as well - not sure worth the weight/cost/12" in length (CC is 238" - shorter than even an F150 with the 6'5" bed) unless you just want the longer wheelbase.

 

TLDR: So if I ordered right now: 2500 (maybe 3500), HEMI, crew, air suspension, ramboxes 6'4" bed.  Expect 2800-2900 payload in Laramie trim.  Going for Laramie level 1 to avoid subwoofer and amp taking up passenger side underseat storage.

 

Space behind seats on mega

 

Mega folded down

 

Under seat storage on crew

 

Crew flat floor panel

 

 

[Landrover]

Skip all that and buy a Chevy

[Raspy]

WhatDa,

 

 

 

Can you get the 5.7 Hemi in those trucks, or only the 6.4?

 

A Mega with the 6'4" bed is going to present a parking issue.  And towing an Ollie, you won't be able to use two end-to-end parking spots.

 

If you decided you wanted the diesel, the standard output one in the 2500 if fine.  But the HO has the Aisin trans and that trans is outstanding for towing.  Extremely heavy duty, has a very low 1st gear and a tall OD.  Trouble is, the trans and the HO are expensive options that add about $12,000.

 

I like the 6.4, but for traveling while towing, it would drive me crazy feeding it.  If you are not a diesel fan, and just go by the numbers, probably the gas is for you, as there is more to diesels than price at the pump, but you have to like them to appreciate it.

[BackofBeyond]

The wife was adamant about standard toilet – so that’s what we are going with.

We’re also leaving Europe where the diesels have been banned or are being banned from many city centers and their used prices have crashed as a result.

 

I read somewhere you plan to boondock a considerable amount, if true, the standard toilet is the wrong selection. I understand some have an aversion to the concept, but after 7 weeks of exploring the western US, and not needing any sort of black water dump,  I would not have anything but the compost toilet. Not to mention the amount of water used in the flush.  That will be the issue you deal with most  - if you boondock much. Compost head -  Simple, no smell, and no excessive use of H20. Changing/replacing the compost material - simple. A big strong plastic bag is all you need.

 

The US is not Europe, your concerns, as stated, have no bearing in the US. Its a toss up Gas v Diesel, especially with the new "promised" torque gas engines. But banning diesels, not. Oh, in the big cities, why would anyone be driving through one with an Oliver?  Just strange, you haven't been to the south much I would assume, nor Texas, NM, OK, and on, the diesel is far removed from the graveyard.

 

21000 miles later, I cannot imagine a better TV.  (11K+  towing)

 

To each his own.  I must have missed something when I looked at the Ram trucks, were not anything I thought worthy, Ford was in the lead until I put about 100 test miles on the GMC, it was not close after that.

 

Details, details,

 

Landrover is on to something!

 

RB

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhatDa]

Chevy is out because of no moveable pedals on the 2020 and no Adaptive Cruise.  They also ride rougher than the rams unloaded - at least for the 2019s.

 

Can you get the 5.7 Hemi in those trucks, or only the 6.4?

 

It's now 6.4 only for the HD trucks in gas.  6.7 for the diesel with the HO variant only in the 3500.  Unladen I was seeing 15-17 mpg according to the OBC - around town.  Not too bad and very close to what I was getting in the cummins ~18-19.  I'd expect the difference to grow when towing hard.  With the MDS, it shuts down cylinders and becomes a 3.2L 4-banger and the 6.4 is able to do this more than the 5.7.  It works very well with the ZF 8 speed from what I've seen.  I haven't met a dealer that is willing to let me take their brand new trucks and tow a trailer with them yet -- so I don't have the full picture first hand there yet.  But at least unladen the Cummins doesn't have enough of a margin to win.

 

A Mega with the 6’4″ bed is going to present a parking issue. And towing an Ollie, you won’t be able to use two end-to-end parking spots.

The length is definitely a consideration as I need to park this beast at major airports - so a large part of going for the smallest 4-door HD truck.  It'll also be better on some ferry crossings as it's under 20' which is the cutoff for "oversize" on some systems.

 

If you decided you wanted the diesel, the standard output one in the 2500 if fine. But the HO has the Aisin trans and that trans is outstanding for towing. Extremely heavy duty, has a very low 1st gear and a tall OD. Trouble is, the trans and the HO are expensive options that add about $12,000.

With diesel it's not practical for us with the 2500 due to payload.  Once the ollie is hitched there is 1000lbs left of payload.  I hit 600lbs of stuff between us, the dog, generator, and a few other items fairly quickly and we are generally lighter than the average bear.  We could probably make it work, but I'd go for the 3500 if Diesel is what's desired.  The Aisin is probably a great towing transmission, but the one I drove shifted "like a truck" empty, which isn't what I'd want to bang out three hours of NE rush hour traffic in.  Maybe it wasn't broken in yet?  The 68RFE is better shifting.  I would expect a ZF or Aisin 8 speed in either the 2020 or 2021 diesel RAM to counter everyone's 10 speed wonder transmissions.

 

I like the 6.4, but for traveling while towing, it would drive me crazy feeding it. If you are not a diesel fan, and just go by the numbers, probably the gas is for you, as there is more to diesels than price at the pump, but you have to like them to appreciate it.

I was driven insane towing an 8.5' wide trailer with an eco boost and 26 gallon tank and switched to diesel as a result.  The money leaving the pocket isn't as bad as trying to cross Texas and having to stop 65 miles after gassing up because the next station is too far at 7MPG.  The closest I've seen perusing fuelly for the towing hemi burn is 8MPG over hilly terrain with a 35' TT.  I am guessing that was also an 8.5' wide trailer - so hopefully better with an Ollie.  I'm not 100% opposed to getting a diesel, but it's between the 2500 Gas with its coil suspension (better ride) and 3500 diesel (better engine) with leafs.  If I do get a diesel it'd have to still command a premium at resale in order to payoff economically, and if next year's diesels get a measurable bump in efficiency from a new transmission, then the 6 speeds probably lose a little more value.

 

 

 

 

I read somewhere you plan to boondock a considerable amount, if true, the standard toilet is the wrong selection. I understand some have an aversion to the concept, but after 7 weeks of exploring the western US, and not needing any sort of black water dump, I would not have anything but the compost toilet. Not to mention the amount of water used in the flush. That will be the issue you deal with most – if you boondock much. Compost head – Simple, no smell, and no excessive use of H20. Changing/replacing the compost material – simple. A big strong plastic bag is all you need.

We may end up there, but for now a foot was put down.

 

The US is not Europe, your concerns, as stated, have no bearing in the US. Its a toss up Gas v Diesel, especially with the new “promised” torque gas engines. But banning diesels, not. Oh, in the big cities, why would anyone be driving through one with an Oliver? Just strange, you haven’t been to the south much I would assume, nor Texas, NM, OK, and on, the diesel is far removed from the graveyard.

Not based on what we see with CARB emissions, green new deals, etc...  I've lived in AL, GA, and AZ so have a pretty good idea of the South.  For work I need to access airports (we plan on traveling between my work trips) and sometimes we like to visit friends/family in cities.  I don't plan on parallel parking in Manhattan, but I will be crossing into NYC which it would not be unthinkable either institutes an air quality ban - or more likely: tax.

 

21000 miles later, I cannot imagine a better TV. (11K+ towing)

 

To each his own. I must have missed something when I looked at the Ram trucks, were not anything I thought worthy, Ford was in the lead until I put about 100 test miles on the GMC, it was not close after that.

 

Details, details,

 

Landrover is on to something!

 

RB

 

Sounds like a great truck!  If I were going without some of the safety tech that we are going for, I'd be getting an LBZ Duramax in a heartbeat.  What pulls me to the RAM trucks are the 2500's rear coils give a great ride, the ramboxes provide some better organization, the overall length is the shortest for 4-doors, and adaptive cruise control which helps with fatigue and the adjustable pedals withe memory. Oh and the air suspension provides a great ride - it's integrated/automatic - if I put Firestone bags on another truck it wouldn't be as simple.  Some won't care about those things and will buy another truck.  If the 2020 F250 were here now it'd be a closer race.

 

At the end of the day it's to pull an Oliver - something that all these HD trucks are all overqualified to do.  I could probably get by fine with a Ranger/Colorado/Gladiator - but who doesn't want more truck?

 

Steven

[Raspy]

 

 

WhatDa,

 

Don't fool yourself into believing the 6.4 will get the mileage of a 3.2 4-banger, just because it drops out four of the eight.  Not gonna happen.  Ever. It doesn't do that under load and it still has to make enough power to do the job.  That also does nothing to reduce internal friction, so you still have all the pistons sliding up and down in the cylinders, for instance.

 

The 10 speed is not the holy grail either.  More marketing hype.  Adding more and more gears has a diminishing return.  Constant shifting and skipping gears is further evidence of that.  So is the fact that while towing, it will not be in 10th gear, as well as the fact that all modern gas engines have variable valve timing, which widens out their efficient torque band and reduces the need for so many gears.

 

Towing an Ollie is significantly more efficient than towing a squarish, 8.5' wide sticky.  Huge difference there.  I've towed both and saw a 30% difference at least.  Ollies are a pleasure to tow.

 

The economics of the diesel don't look very good right now, and if I was to buy a new truck, it would be gas.  But I never factor in my later resale to make up the difference.  That is a hard number to quantify, and it may never happen anyway.  I'm on my third Cummins with over a half million miles on them.  For me, I have a hard time figuring how much money saved is worth giving up the superior towing, reliability, ease of maintenance and relaxed low RPM torque of a Cummins.

 

The air suspension doesn't just offer a great ride, it also adjusts to various tongue weighs and weight in the bed.  Always levels itself, so the truck drives really nice.

 

Get whatever truck you like, but do it with eyes wide open so you are not surprised with the result.

 

Enjoy the search!

[Overland]

I find that my 10 speed shifts very smoothly and doesn't hunt for gears at all.  It also stays in 10 when towing except when accelerating or going uphill, of course.  If anything, I find it too reluctant to shift - particularly on undulating roads, where the truck will allow the speed to drop on uphill sections much more than I'd prefer.  When that happens, though, I just lock out the top two gears and it's fine.

 

 

[WhatDa]

Yeah, I'm aware of the diminishing returns for the gears, but the wider range certainly seems helpful.  Being able to run 3.xx rear end instead of a 4.xx top end can really help unloaded fuel economy.  The 8 and 10 speeds do this in their 3.xx rear ends while having a lower first gear than a 6-speed with a 4.xx.  They also have lockup (which many of the 6 speeds did/do have) in more/all gears, so if you are towing in 4/8, you are still efficient and delivering as much power as 5-8.

 

The cylinder shutdown doesn't create a Prius out of an HD truck, but the 6.4 Hemi was delivering the same gas mileage as my 3.5 "eco" boost in a 1/2 ton - so it is somewhat effective.

 

If I could order today, I would order gas.  Another bonus that I didn't mention is with gas, any aux tank or jerry can that works for the truck also works for the generator.

 

So now I wait, (un) patiently, awaiting the word if there will be more ramboxes for 2019 or if I am holding out for 2020.  A search across the country found nothing that meets my requests without also having $4000 sound systems, bucket seats, $1500 20" wheels, $1200 12" nav displays, and $1000 sunroofs that all drive the price up $10k.  So I'd rather buy a cummins with that money, but none of the cummins builds are as I want either.  The delays are a blessing, as maybe they will have the trailer tire pressure monitoring available by then, and I will know where we are living so I can order closer to wherever home will be.

[BackofBeyond]

IF it were 2020 with the new torque design gas engines, and trans, and if they actually meet the expectations for mpg and performance I would purchase a gas engine. I understand all the deep dive into gear ratios and such - but in the end, it doesn't matter. For me its  -how does the total package work for my needs - in 2018 it was the GMC Duramax / Allison combination.

 

2021 and later - its something to wait and see. As the trans go from 6 speed to 10 and on, it is diminishing returns. Not to mention complexity.

 

If I could get what I wanted - My GMC truck, with a  600 ft-lbs torque, electric drive, 600 mile capacity, 5 min recharge, powertrain. Eliminate all the doodles, just give me the satellite radio, a good programable GPS, and a price of about $30k. All main modules plug and play, accepted industry standards for design replacement.   Fiction I know.

 

RB

 

 

[Landrover]

WhatDa

 

seems like your moving towards dodge and all the spec’s are making you undecided. Look at the all new 2020 chevys The 1500 gas claim to have a new towing capacity as some 2500 models. And the 2500 and 3500 are above the pack. It could make you crazy comparing spec’s to a point. As always its all personal preference. Get in it, like it, and buy it. Works for me.

[John E Davies]

If you don’t need to carry people in back, remove the rear seats entirely, and fabricate a vast flat load floor from Baltic Birch plywood to carry your stuff. Be sure to add cargo tie down tracks and loops. The seats are heavy so you end up with more cargo capacity, but more importantly, you gain lots of volume, and you can build hinges to access OEM underfloor storage areas for high security stuff like personal effects, firearms or contraband  ;)

 

The new 8 speed in the Ram HD trucks should be great, it offers a really low first gear to launch the trailer from a stop, and you should get better mpgs overall. The Fast Lane guys got a 25% improvement on their 100 mile test loop with the new 2019 Power Wagon vs the older model. That is pretty amazing, I hope that was not a measuring error.....

 

I would get the lowest ratio axle gears offered, the Elite II is a heavy little tank when fully specced out and loaded down. More torque at the wheels is always a good thing out West, especially if you put bigger tires on the TV.

 

I agree about the toilet, for boondocking a regular one is a big mistake for a number of reasons. Being able to skip RV dump stations, many of which are CLOSED off season, is huge. Your wife will adjust. Servicing the composting toilet is not a big deal at all.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[WhatDa]

I am toying with a 2020 Chevy 1500 if I can't find the dodge/ if the diesel offers 1800+ payload in the LTZ trim, it would be worth the tradeoff of having to watch our weight vs a 2500 or 3500 with 1000-2000 extra pounds of payload.  "MrTruck" showed a 2WD with an 1800lb payload so it's possible (double cab 2WD GVWR 6900 vs 4WD GVWR 7100 or even 7300 on the diesel 4WD CC).    There the diesel is the same price as the "truck" gas engine, and has the potential to turn some greater mileage.  Downside is losing the sealed bed storage and having to add weight for containers or a topper vs Ramboxes which don't steal as much payload.

 

I saw TFL Truck's video on the PW.  Their numbers lined up with what I saw on the Laramie.  For an HD gas engine it stands alone as the current chevy/ford gassers were giving me ~12-13 MPG vs the 15-17 on the RAM 2500 6.4.  2020 will definitely change that.  Speaking of TFL trucks, I wish they would focus a little more on testing the trucks and running their flat loaded/unloaded loops and ike loaded loops (not really as interested in that test - if I drive that roads it's because I chose to drive that road).  Their latest videos have stupid clickbait titles like "do my feet smell after driving 10 hours?" and don't really provide any valid comparisons or data.

 

To believe we towed a 3-ton tractor through the cascades with an inline 6 F250 with 100hp/190lb-ft torque back in the day puts things in perspective :)