Urine redirect to gray tank

[ahattar]

2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

There are a number of fresh water lines near the water pump, the line at the very bottom of main fresh tank   would be my choice to tee into. You might have to disconnect and move some other lines to get in there. You will need a manual ball valve where you can reach it easily, say under the front dinette, so you can leave that closed until the big fresh tank is nearly empty. Otherwise the black tank will just drain and empty into it, and the excess will flow right out the fresh vent hose...

I haven't opened up the bathroom vanity, but others have. There are pictures floating around. It is pretty straight forward, you should have no trouble at all reaching the black tank vent. You will need to cut it and cap it, and also cap the main waste vent that you removed it from.

While you are under there, disconnect and cap the fresh water hose that goes to the unused flush toilet, so you no longer have to winterize that part. Leave it to where somebody could easily hook it back up in the future...

Have fun, please start a new thread with pics.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thanks John.  So you're basically saying to pressurize it with the water pump.  I thought you were thinking you could do a true gravity feed where you could plug the fresh tank overflow, add an overflow to the black and just fill the black tank and allow it to fill both.  I'll take a look again tomorrow at the lines you mentioned.  Thanks  

[John E Davies]

The two waste tanks are ABS (black plastic, like most sewer pipes) and only the fresh water tank is poly.

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 11, 2020 by John E Davies

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, ahattar said:

Thanks John.  So you're basically saying to pressurize it with the water pump.  I thought you were thinking you could do a true gravity feed where you could plug the fresh tank overflow, add an overflow to the black and just fill the black tank and allow it to fill both.  I'll take a look again tomorrow at the lines you mentioned.  Thanks  

No, you are putting words in my mouth.  

I said to tee into the line that exits the bottom of the fresh tank. That line will allow the full black tank to gravity feed through the lower port into the empty fresh tank when your new ball valve is opened. The pump has nothing to do with transferring water by this method.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/2261-how-to-fresh-water-tank-suction-tube-mod-no-spin-welding-required/

NOTE: Older Ollies that have not been modified (like mine and some others) use this lower blue line as a suction supply for the pump. (The upper fitting with line removed is the tank FILL port.) Newer or modded Ollies use a new third syphon line exiting the top of the tank. This change allows use of (almost) the full 30 gallons instead of sucking air with 10 gallons remaining.

DO NOT PLUG THE FRESH TANK OVERFLOW!!! Nonono! You could explode your tank.

You must add a BIG overflow to the black tank, just like the fresh tank one, so you will not rupture it while filling especially when the ball valve at the gravity feed line is closed. None of these tanks can accept 60 psi and survive. Not even 10 psi, I suspect.

I suppose you could possibly fill both tanks from the black rinse port, but that would be way WAY slower than filling the fresh tank through its own port. Gravity feeding through a 1/2” pipe will probably take as much as half an hour. There is only about 3 inches of height difference to provide head pressure. 

Are you quite sure you want to do this? No offense intended, but  I am getting some bad vibes....

John  Davies

Spokane Wa

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by John E Davies

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, ahattar said:

Also, you guys do realize that your composting toilet is basically an open urine tank with no trap.  If you don't smell that, you're highly unlikely to smell the grey tank especially through a couple of traps.  

The traps may burp because the grey tank is inadequately vented. It vents through the bathroom, if you have the travel valve closed, it cannot vent except through the kitchen trap. If you tow up a steep mountain it will belch stinky gasses into the cabin.  You can add deodorant to the tanks, that makes it smell vaguely like lemons instead of rotting food particles.

The grey tank needs a second vent to fix this. Maybe while you are stringing pipes you can do that too.;)

John Davies

Spokane WA
 

 

[ahattar]

7 hours ago, John E Davies said:

No, you are putting words in my mouth.  

I said to tee into the line that exits the bottom of the fresh tank. That line will allow the full black tank to gravity feed through the lower port into the empty fresh tank when your new ball valve is opened. The pump has nothing to do with transferring water by this method.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/2261-how-to-fresh-water-tank-suction-tube-mod-no-spin-welding-required/

NOTE: Older Ollies that have not been modified (like mine and some others) use this lower blue line as a suction supply for the pump. (The upper fitting with line removed is the tank FILL port.) Newer or modded Ollies use a new third syphon line exiting the top of the tank. This change allows use of (almost) the full 30 gallons instead of sucking air with 10 gallons remaining.

DO NOT PLUG THE FRESH TANK OVERFLOW!!! Nonono! You could explode your tank.

You must add a BIG overflow to the black tank, just like the fresh tank one, so you will not rupture it while filling especially when the ball valve at the gravity feed line is closed. None of these tanks can accept 60 psi and survive. Not even 10 psi, I suspect.

I suppose you could possibly fill both tanks from the black rinse port, but that would be way WAY slower than filling the fresh tank through its own port. Gravity feeding through a 1/2” pipe will probably take as much as half an hour. There is only about 3 inches of height difference to provide head pressure. 

Are you quite sure you want to do this? No offense intended, but  I am getting some bad vibes....

John  Davies

Spokane Wa

 

Settle down there big John.  I know you fancy yourself the expert of all things in the world and this forum fills voids in your life, but you need not be so dramatic.  I've seen several of your posts and you are always so matter of fact and dramatic.  Chill out man.  I didn't put words in your mouth, I simply forgot a question mark and assumed you were saying things that made no sense.  Don't worry, nobody will hold you liable for anything other than speaking too much and trying to prove how smart you think you are.  I got back on this post because you spend an unhealthy amount of time poking around your trailer and thought it might save me some time.  It hasn't.  In the future, if you think you're feeling "bad vibes", thats actually everybody around you being incredibly annoyed......my guess is on the forums but more importantly in real life!  Take care and remember, settle down!         

[SeaDawg]

There are some smaller trailers and boats out there with only one waste tank. I believe Airstream's nest is one of them, probably because it was originally designed to carry a portapotty or cassette toilet, though it now has a standard rv toilet, flushing to a very small combined grey/black. My understanding is that in these joint systems, the single tank is designated as black, and has to be dumped in a designated dump station. I don't know what the argument would be for you, with solids directed to the composting nh, but I can say I probably wouldn't welcome grey with urine in my garden. Yes, I  know human urine is supposedly 99 per cent sterile. 😁

The other thing is, over the years, I  have found grey and black tankage capacity more limiting than fresh water capacity. I supplement the fresh tank with potable water in several square, stacking 5 gallon jugs with a spigot for refilling water bottles, making coffee, cooking, even heating water in a tea kettle to do dishes. With these methods, and navy showers, using cg sinks, and using the cg toilets and showers when possible,  we can really stretch time between dumps, and taking on fresh. 

Just my thoughts. We don't  (as yet) have a composting toilet in either the rv or the boat, so still just thinking/pondering. 

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to do, and photos of your implementation. 

Sherry

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by SeaDawg
Spelling

[ahattar]

On 3/8/2020 at 9:31 PM, John E Davies said:

The two waste tanks are ABS (black plastic, like most sewer pipes) and only the fresh water tank is poly.

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

The black tank is not ABS, its black poly and the grey tank is grey poly.  The difference being that the black and grey are not certified potable.

[ahattar]

On 3/9/2020 at 4:14 PM, SeaDawg said:

There are some smaller trailers and boats out there with only one waste tank. I believe Airstream's nest is one of them, probably because it was originally designed to carry a portapotty or cassette toilet, though it now has a standard rv toilet, flushing to a very small combined grey/black. My understanding is that in these joint systems, the single tank is designated as black, and has to be dumped in a designated dump station. I don't know what the argument would be for you, with solids directed to the composting nh, but I can say I probably wouldn't welcome grey with urine in my garden. Yes, I  know human urine is supposedly 99 per cent sterile. 😁

The other thing is, over the years, I  have found grey and black tankage capacity more limiting than fresh water capacity. I supplement the fresh tank with potable water in several square, stacking 5 gallon jugs with a spigot for refilling water bottles, making coffee, cooking, even heating water in a tea kettle to do dishes. With these methods, and navy showers, using cg sinks, and using the cg toilets and showers when possible,  we can really stretch time between dumps, and taking on fresh. 

Just my thoughts. We don't  (as yet) have a composting toilet in either the rv or the boat, so still just thinking/pondering. 

Looking forward to seeing what you decide to do, and photos of your implementation. 

Sherry

 

 

For us its very simple.  When we're out dry camping for weeks at a time in places where a drive to get more fresh water is a 200 mile round trip, the only thing we can't get more of is water.  With a composting toilet we can dump anywhere as long as its composted, though my wife and I can get 3 weeks out of one toilet load pretty easily.  Grey water even with urine, we can dump anywhere.  Having 60+ gallons of fresh water without having to pack more stuff in the bed of the pickup and without having to pump it into the trailer is pretty darn convenient.  And the more I look at doing it, the easier it looks.  I can't see it taking more than a couple hours to setup.      

[Overland]

36 minutes ago, ahattar said:

I can't see it taking more than a couple hours to setup.      

I have to quote this as famous last words, but I’m eager to see what you come up with. 

[ahattar]

8 hours ago, Overland said:

I have to quote this as famous last words, but I’m eager to see what you come up with. 

Ha!  You sound like my wife when I say an hour.  Notice I said a couple of hours.  The vast majority of the work is already done, don't even need to make any tank penetrations.  I'm just trying to get some details from the tank manufacture before I start.  I'm talking to the "tank expert" today where oliver buys tanks.

[ahattar]

Well, looks like this is all a waste of time unless I pull out the existing black tank.  I spoke with a lady that manufactures these tanks.  If they're not certified its because they ultimately don't know what the tank is made of because its made of recycled materials.  Could be high or low carbon levels and can definitely leach into your water.  This is the same for ABS.  

Side note that will annoy me until I get clarification.  Oliver clearly advertises 18.5 gallons but it says very clearly on the tank, 15 gallons. 

I'm still gonna look into putting a potable tank in.  Would at least make plumbing the composting toilet easy.   

Edited March 13, 2020 by ahattar

[Overland]

I suspected as much on the black tank, but it's good to have it confirmed.

Getting a new tank in would mean pulling the floor, unless it's a smaller tank.  The existing one won't come out via the dining seat in one piece unfortunately.  

Edited March 13, 2020 by Overland

[ahattar]

I think you mentioned you removed the tank for more storage.  Did you make a post for that?  I'm not gonna pull the floor for this, then its getting into more work than its worth.  If anything, I might just use the existing black tank for non potable water just cause it would be fast and easy.  I know some of the ausi overland trailers do that with two seperate water tanks.  

[ahattar]

btw, did you notice the size of your tank when you pulled it out?

[Overland]

No, and I threw it away so I can't check.  I had to hack it to pieces to get it out through the dinette.  I didn't do a post on it.  I actually haven't finished the job, since part of it is putting in a new bath sink.  But I finally found just the right sink and have it here now.  I've got the new vanity top, too, so I'm jus waiting for the drain to arrive and I need to get by Ikea for the faucet.  Probably I'll have both this weekend.  It won't be long before I get back on it.  Just a couple hours work after all. 😛

Edited March 13, 2020 by Overland

[ahattar]

Ha.  Some of us move quicker than others I guess.  Your job sounds like an hour max.  

[WhatDa]

For extra water, we carry 2x of these: https://gsioutdoors.com/20-l-water-cube.html

I got them in the off season at Yellowstone for cheap.  They fold flat and small -- so they stash under any of the seats in the trailer or car.  We either use them with the spigot inside the trailer as extra water when dry camping, or using the boondocking port to load 10 gallons into the freshwater tank for showers.  The best part is not having to move the trailer to refill water.  

[hobo]

On 3/8/2020 at 11:51 PM, John E Davies said:

The traps may burp because the grey tank is inadequately vented. It vents through the bathroom, if you have the travel valve closed, it cannot vent except through the kitchen trap. If you tow up a steep mountain it will belch stinky gasses into the cabin.  You can add deodorant to the tanks, that makes it smell vaguely like lemons instead of rotting food particles.

The grey tank needs a second vent to fix this. Maybe while you are stringing pipes you can do that too.;)

John Davies

Spokane WA
 

 

That's what I was thinking too.  I've mistakenly not shifted the valve in the bath on at least one occasion and have run close to having allowed the grey water tank to get too full.  In both cases, worst that would happen is a little grey water comes into the bathroom floor.  Not the level of a "problem" that you would have if black water comes into the living space.  Also as pointed out earlier, plain old grey water can be strategically drained off without harm  or offense in many situations.  When you introduce urine to the mix, you've lost that option.  It's easier for me to just empty the urine container which is not a big deal anyway.