Factory wiring diagram discussion

[ScubaRx]

That's not the reason they are not publishing wiring diagrams. It's mainly that they are in a relatively constant state of flux. They change, quite often. One printed and included in the delivery information kit may well be out of date by the time you get it.  A current one is available for the asking. As far as photos taken within the factory, I don't think there's any problems. I've taken literally thousands over the past 14 years. 

[NCeagle]

8 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

That's not the reason they are not publishing wiring diagrams. It's mainly that they are in a relatively constant state of flux. They change, quite often. One printed and included in the delivery information kit may well be out of date by the time you get it.  A current one is available for the asking. As far as photos taken within the factory, I don't think there's any problems. I've taken literally thousands over the past 14 years. 

Well....  @ScubaRx, I do take exception to some of these comments. 

If "constant state of flux" is an excuse, Oliver shouldn't publish a LOT of things in the manuals, because there are many, many components that are in my 2020 owners manuals that are out of date or just wrong - they are in a constant state of flux too.  If Oliver isn't serious about keeping owners manuals up to date, they should just stop giving them out and explain to owners why they are such a burden to keep up to date. 

There have also been a handful of recent owners asking for the electrical diagrams, so I'm curious what you mean by "A current one is available for the asking?"   Sure, one can ask, but I've asked at least 3 times (including opening a service ticket for one) and been told no each time.  Apparently, you can't even get one if your first name is Jason and you are part of the great OTT service team.

[John E Davies]

Regarding electrical diagrams.... if they were never offered in the past, one could argue that it is unreasonable for an owner to ask for them. However, they have been included in every paper and electronic manual until model year 2020, so something must be behind the decision to eliminate them entirely. Not “flux”. Flux is normal in industry and every day life, you just deal with it. 

If they actually wanted to keep the info away from competitors (which IMHO is absurd, these are not space ships) then they would have purged the older diagrams from the Oliver University ebooks.

Two years ago somebody there made the decision to alter that section from Electrical Diagrams to Battery Configurations. This is not a simple omission of the those images, but a policy change, which in effect says “we are no longer going to publish those”).

Whatever the reason, it is not valid enough to keep this vital information away from owners and RV techs who require it to troubleshoot electrical problems. That they apparently keep them from their Service Department boggles the mind! The fact that no one at Oliver will give a straight answer is very concerning to me. 

Jim, please ask about and pursue this subject when you visit. Be tenacious. Take a box of doughnuts from Walmart. Thank you!

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Maverick]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

Regarding electrical diagrams.... if they were never offered in the past, one could argue that it is unreasonable for an owner to ask for them. However, they have been included in every paper and electronic manual until model year 2020, so something must be behind the decision to eliminate them entirely. Not “flux”. Flux is normal in industry and every day life, you just deal with it. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

John:

You said "they have been included in every paper and electronic manual until model year 2020".  Our trailer is a 2015 Elite II delivered on September 2, 2015 and there are NO electrical drawing and I have never been able to obtain a copy.  This also goes for plumbing drawing as well.

[BackofBeyond]

Our 2018 E II had full set of diagrams - The electrical was fairly accurate/complete. Plumbing, etc., all there. 

Part and parcel of modern manufacturing is a thing called "standardized work" - the operator instructions for this are derived from detailed documented processes developed from the engineering spec's. To say that each unit is built in a manufacturing environment in a state of  process "flux" would certainly explain the various mis-builds reported here in the recent past.  Perhaps this is somewhat accurate, but I doubt it - well hope not - anyways. 

Keeping manuals, unit specifications, system diagrams, operating instructions and all - is a complicated and time consuming task, one that requires utmost accuracy - on a constant basis - and tied to build point breakpoints for changes.  I could understand Oliver not wanting to publish in mass - but not acquiescing to individual requests. Interesting. 

To say the service department doesn't have the benefit of such material boggles the mind. Well mine anyway. 

So - to the poster out there headed to the plant for a tour - pay particular attention to the wiring station - ask them how they know what to do for each unit-  your feedback would be interesting to hear. 

I could see the why not - If online documentation had some errors - this forum would be busy pointing out the inaccuracies , and making corrections - in an endless stream of posts and consternation.  Trouble no manufacturer wants..... But to be the best - well, never mind.

Good travels all.

RB

 

 

[LongStride]

The rationale behind no longer providing wiring diagrams in the owners manual because the wiring design is "in a state of flux" is plausible.  It stands to reason that the Oliver engineers may be tweaking the wiring design so that the installation becomes more efficient in their efforts to meet increased demand.  That makes sense to me.  What does not make sense is hiding their wiring diagrams from the competition yet still allowing cameras in their factory.  I have visited many facilities where photos were not allowed simply as a measure to protect their methods and processes.  If someone at Oliver came up with some groundbreaking electrical milestone that would be revealed by a wiring diagram, then they should apply for a job at Lockheed or NASA.  We are talking travel trailers here, not fighter jets.  The service department surely has access to that information as it applies to each hull number or it would be almost impossible to troubleshoot electrical warranty issues.  They could hunt for hours at their own expense without a diagram.  That would be a very poor component of their business model, which at this juncture appears to be a smashing success.  Waiting to update the currently non-existent wiring diagrams in the owners manual until they have completed their design changes is understandable.  However, refusing to provide a copy at the owners request simply because they don't want to go through the effort would reflect very poorly on Oliver, and would be a real disservice to their customers who are paying a premium not only for their product but for their service as well.  It is especially important that this information is available to the owners since they are spread out nationwide and there are no service centers except at the mothership.

[LongStride]

Could one of the moderators move or copy the discussion about electrical wiring diagrams from "Anyone need us to look into anything during our upcoming factory tour" post to this new topic?  The discussion seems to have taken on a life of its own and is important to all new and recent owners.

I don't know how to do it (or if I am even allowed).

Thanks!

[Overland]

Done

[Mcb]

23 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

That's not the reason they are not publishing wiring diagrams. It's mainly that they are in a relatively constant state of flux. They change, quite often. One printed and included in the delivery information kit may well be out of date by the time you get it.  A current one is available for the asking. As far as photos taken within the factory, I don't think there's any problems. I've taken literally thousands over the past 14 years. 

A current copy of the electrical diagrams is not available for the asking.. at least not for me.. I’ve asked several times.. The answer has always been the same..... No.... 

[ScubaRx]

On 4/15/2021 at 7:45 PM, ScubaRx said:

That's not the reason they are not publishing wiring diagrams. It's mainly that they are in a relatively constant state of flux. They change, quite often. One printed and included in the delivery information kit may well be out of date by the time you get it.  A current one is available for the asking.

You guys were asking these questions and were not getting any answers. I took it upon myself to call Rodney Lomax, the sales and service manager. I asked your questions and these were the answers he gave me. Sorry, I was trying to help.