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How do I change shore power or generator demand priority?


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Hull 806, Lithium batteries, 3000 watt inverter, 2200 watt generator

Here's my situation: My batteries are at about 85% and I want to recharge throughout the day with solar. I also want to run the generator and turn on the Air Conditioner. Once the generator is connected the battery charger immediately puts about 1600 watts of demand on the generator until the batteries are at full charge (about 20 minutes). Then the generator returns to idle and I'm good to turn on the Air Conditioner...works fine.

My question for this situation: What is the best method to prioritize the air conditioner/other over battery recharging?

Thanks....Steve

 

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5 minutes ago, SteveCr said:

Hull 806, Lithium batteries, 3000 watt inverter, 2200 watt generator

Here's my situation: My batteries are at about 85% and I want to recharge throughout the day with solar. I also want to run the generator and turn on the Air Conditioner. Once the generator is connected the battery charger immediately puts about 1600 watts of demand on the generator until the batteries are at full charge (about 20 minutes). Then the generator returns to idle and I'm good to turn on the Air Conditioner...works fine.

My question for this situation: What is the best method to prioritize the air conditioner/other over battery recharging?

Thanks....Steve

 

On older trailers you can just flip the circuit breaker for the charger off that’s on the panel under the dinette seat.  I’m not sure how the newer trailers with lithium work the charging.  Since I put in my lithium batteries and PD4045 I find that I leave it off most of the time to let the solar charge the batteries during the day and only use it on cloudy days when the solar can’t keep up.

Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

ALAZARCACOFLGAIDILKSKYLAMDMSMOMTNENVNMNYNCNDOHOKSCSDTNTXUTVAWVWYsm.jpgALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMAMS

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I had turned off the 25 amp breaker labeled "Inverter" but then the Air Conditioner would not attempt to start. I did not check any other 120 item...I'll try that again next time and be more observant.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Elite II #751, Lithium-Solar

Setup of Xantrex: XC Pro 3000 ( probably same for 2000 ),

- I am using the Xantrex Bluetooth app on iPhone. ( launch app and ?dbl/long press the top Botton 'ESC' till bars under L&R #'s on remote display  flash, then iPhone Bluetooth pairs with Xantrex remote >> you are off to the races. )

- Owners Manual: pp71 'SETTINGS' :::  Numbers: 1-14, 20-24, 26-28, 99. ( can be changed either with the remote wall mount display or iPhone Xantrex app )

Of particular Interest me are: ( purpose is to limit the amount power the Xantrex draws from external power sources )

#24 Charger Current

5-150 Amp -  ( The current setting value can be adjusted by 5A increments. )

#28  AC Input Breaker for Load Share 

 5-50 Amp -  ( The load share feature prioritizes the AC load by reducing the charge current in order to maintain the total input current to less than the load share setting. )

*************************************************************************

We sometimes sit at end of a LONGgggg Smallll extension cord.

#24 - Charger current setting at a lower value will prevent the Xantrex trying to draw 1800Watts (12V x 150Amp) thru a tiny long cord.

#28 - AC Breaker for Load Share:  I set this to 13 Amp when running a Honda 2000 EU generator and it prevented wild voltage swings and red overload light flashing.

>>>> My thought is that these features are valuable and helpful but are implemented and documented, . . . . . not as well as they might be.

Some Older Xantrex and some current Victron inverter-chargers have a feature called 'Generator Support' which is easy to understand . . . when a generator is small or a shore power cord has low voltage or is long and small it balances the various energy input sources dynamically so as not to overdraw a weak source. In consumer grade equipment this is very much a new computer age type function.  . . . . To me this is the Holy Grail in inverter-charger functionality. This Xantrex XC Pro achieves some of this functionality but the way it is described/implemented it leaves me a bit confused. . . . . . 

UPDATE: 6/18/21 after experiments

Seems apparent that Xantrex XC Pro 2000 & 3000 are not able to provide what I think will soon be the 'new normal' for inverter-chargers, that is what sometimes is called "Generator Support". A small generator contributes what power it has available and the inverter uses that power and adds power from batteries as needed to supply demand. That is in stark contrast to a DUMB . . . 'switch to the grid totally' when AC is sensed with no judgment about the capability of the AC source.

The Xantrex XC Pro can modulate charging current a bit to help prevent overload of a 'GRID' source, but when Xantrex XC Pro is 'ON THE GRID' , i.e. an AC is available, it is totally dumb about judging the capability of the AC source.   EXAMPLE:  If the Honda 2000EU is running providing 'GRID Power' and the HVAC is running I can adjust parameters #24,#28 and the generator is then operating within its capabilities and not overwhelmed by HVAC + Battery Charging . HOWEVER, as soon as I turn on the HotWater pot the generator is overwhelmed with 21Amp draw for HVAC & HotPot.  A Victron of some of the other older big Xantrex would sense that the generator was being overwhelmed and allowed the battery-inverter to supply demand and the limited generator to help as much a possible but not choke on the LARGE POWER DEMAND.

 

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'There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us,it doesn't behoove any of us to speak evil of the rest of us'

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Elite II #688 also has the Lithium package with the Xantrex XC Pro 3000.  

I also use #24 (Charger Current) and #28 (AC Breaker for Load Share) occasionally to match and manage power better as described above.

However, setting #26 is the best thing since sliced bread!  I use #26 (Charger Ignition Control) to manage my Lithium charging the most (by far).  Since there is no ignition control in a travel trailer, this switch can be used to turn the charger "off" and "on" via the software while you are using the inverter functions.  When we are on shore power I don't want the batteries always topped off at 100% (not good for Lithium longevity), so I turn the charger off by toggling #26 to prevent the charger from holding them at 100%.  This switch is an arm-saver since you don't have to manually reach under the street side bed and trip (or reset) the breaker between the inverter and battery.

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2020 Elite II, Hull 688 --- 2021 Silverado 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax Diesel

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NCEagle:

Clearly what are are doing is useful and I too have been concerned about the system being configured for batteries 100% charged 100% of the time . . . not good!

Trying to understand how your experience of "disable charging" matches the Xantrex description of this setting. Xantrex documentation seems to describe this parameter disabling the total system to eliminate battery drain (makes sense) , BUT if all of the Oliver AC panel (except microwave) is supplied by the Inverter then the inverter must stay operational.   . . . . . Nice to think that future generations of Lithium-Solar-Inverter types will benefit from the trials and tribulations of those that came before.

 

 

Xantrex XC Pro Parameter #26 says "see description on page 43 , so here is a page 43 screenshot.

585728680_ScreenShot2021-06-18at3_56_28PM.thumb.png.52186336857ef6d9599fb20d98a56a55.png

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'There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us,it doesn't behoove any of us to speak evil of the rest of us'

> 2021 OTT EII , TAB Teardrop has good home after 10,000 miles of pleasant learning <

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@georgelewisray, there are two ignition control switches on the inverter.  Switch #1 is for the entire inverter and switch #26 is for the charger portion only.  So I don't mess with switch #1 and the inverter is always working.  When I turn switch #26 to "auto on" the charger will be DISABLED (since there is no ignition circuit connected on the Ollie) and when I turn switch #26 to "off" the charger will be ENABLED.  You will see this on the remote - when #26 is set to "off" the remote says it's charging the battery (e.g., "BLK" for bulk charging) and when #26 is set to "auto on" the remote says "NO" for the battery.

 

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2020 Elite II, Hull 688 --- 2021 Silverado 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax Diesel

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Great and greatly complicated topic for sure.  Hull #701 (I think).  Lithium, 3000xc Pro Inverter, Honda 2200i Generator.

-  SteveCr:  From talking to Xantrex, it was explained that the unit will focus on draw before charging.  In short, if there is a draw on the inverter such as air conditioner, this will be fed first with left over power (if any) channelling to the charger.  I recently noticed that when the AC would cycle down after achieving the temp set on the thermostat, the charger would kick on to full bulk rate.  When the AC was cooling, the charger was running at a trickle.  May have been effected by battery charging needs but the change in charge rate seemed to be tied into the AC draw.

-  NCeagle's approach to setting #26 to "off" to prevent continual charging of lithiums, which in the long term is a bad thing, works but, in asking the same questions to 4 different techs at Xantrex, 3 said that approach would either not work or is not suggested.  The one tech that suggested that approach thought it was perfectly appropriate.  That said, I do use that setting for that purpose if Im going to stay plugged in for multiple days straight such as living on shore power to feed a dehumidifier.  From talking to the battery manufacturer, it is not bad for the lithiums to be on continual charge except over a long period of time.

-  For those of us using a Honda 2200i on gas, I've found that you can set the charge rate (#28) to 15amps with no problems.  Watts (1800 which is the running wattage per Honda) divided by Volts (120v) = Amps (15a)

  

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On 6/19/2021 at 12:09 PM, GAP said:

NCeagle's approach to setting #26 to "off" to prevent continual charging of lithiums, which in the long term is a bad thing, works but, in asking the same questions to 4 different techs at Xantrex, 3 said that approach would either not work or is not suggested. 

GAP, curious whether the Xantrex techs that said it wasn't suggested gave any reasons (I'm assuming they know it works).  The one's that said it doesn't work should actually get some hands on experience with the devices as opposed to thinking they understand everything just from manuals - IMHO of course!  😉  I've used this software switch (off is really on wrt the charger btw) literally dozens of times since I discovered it and it works every time without throwing any error codes.  If I trip the breaker like I used to, I get the infamous Xantrex [20] lost communication error code - per design if you throw the breaker rather than a bug.  So, I respectfully disagree with the Xantrex tech(s) that said it doesn't work.  

I think if it's bad for anything it's not the batteries - so I'd much rather replace the cheap Inverter than the Lithiums.  I also appreciate the savings I'm getting avoiding rotator cuff surgery if I had to continuously reach under the bed for that breaker like I used to.  🙂  

 

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2020 Elite II, Hull 688 --- 2021 Silverado 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax Diesel

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Please help me understand... When the 120V breaker under the dinette is off and the trailer is plugged in to shore power, are the fridge (when set to AC) and the A/C running on battery (inverted?) or on shore power?

If I understand this discussion, setting #26 to off uses the inverter to invert, but not charge?  

Is there any way to plug in to shore power and use the 120V system without using the inverter to invert or charge?

Thanks!

ps: I don’t love the inverter yet.  It doesn’t communicate well with the remote, is loud, and keeps tripping the 12V breaker under the streetside bed.  It’ not intuitive for me.  Electrical schematics for the trailer would help!!

 

 

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On 6/23/2021 at 5:15 PM, NCeagle said:

GAP, curious whether the Xantrex techs that said it wasn't suggested gave any reasons (I'm assuming they know it works).  The one's that said it doesn't work should actually get some hands on experience with the devices as opposed to thinking they understand everything just from manuals - IMHO of course!  😉  I've used this software switch (off is really on wrt the charger btw) literally dozens of times since I discovered it and it works every time without throwing any error codes.  If I trip the breaker like I used to, I get the infamous Xantrex [20] lost communication error code - per design if you throw the breaker rather than a bug.  So, I respectfully disagree with the Xantrex tech(s) that said it doesn't work.  

I think if it's bad for anything it's not the batteries - so I'd much rather replace the cheap Inverter than the Lithiums.  I also appreciate the savings I'm getting avoiding rotator cuff surgery if I had to continuously reach under the bed for that breaker like I used to.  🙂  

 

Hey NCeagle,

I never did ask directly why the techs thought using #26 to turn off the charging aspect of the inverter/charger was a bad idea.  The first tech I spoke to suggested it and it worked so I never felt compelled to dig much deeper.  That said, I did challenge one of the techs by pointing out the contradiction and he had no answer.  I'm with you - if it works, why not do it?  Hasen't seemed to hurt anything.

I just ordered a dehumidifier today and plan on leaving that plugged in up until the late fall.  To run it and a fan to circulate air around the cabin and open compartments, I plan on leaving the Oliver plugged in that entire time.  There is no way I would want the charger to be continuously topping off the batteries for that long.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/17/2021 at 4:58 PM, georgelewisray said:

Elite II #751, Lithium-Solar

Setup of Xantrex: XC Pro 3000 ( probably same for 2000 ),

- I am using the Xantrex Bluetooth app on iPhone. ( launch app and ?dbl/long press the top Botton 'ESC' till bars under L&R #'s on remote display  flash, then iPhone Bluetooth pairs with Xantrex remote >> you are off to the races. )

- Owners Manual: pp71 'SETTINGS' :::  Numbers: 1-14, 20-24, 26-28, 99. ( can be changed either with the remote wall mount display or iPhone Xantrex app )

Of particular Interest me are: ( purpose is to limit the amount power the Xantrex draws from external power sources )

#24 Charger Current

5-150 Amp -  ( The current setting value can be adjusted by 5A increments. )

#28  AC Input Breaker for Load Share 

 5-50 Amp -  ( The load share feature prioritizes the AC load by reducing the charge current in order to maintain the total input current to less than the load share setting. )

*************************************************************************

We sometimes sit at end of a LONGgggg Smallll extension cord.

#24 - Charger current setting at a lower value will prevent the Xantrex trying to draw 1800Watts (12V x 150Amp) thru a tiny long cord.

#28 - AC Breaker for Load Share:  I set this to 13 Amp when running a Honda 2000 EU generator and it prevented wild voltage swings and red overload light flashing.

>>>> My thought is that these features are valuable and helpful but are implemented and documented, . . . . . not as well as they might be.

Some Older Xantrex and some current Victron inverter-chargers have a feature called 'Generator Support' which is easy to understand . . . when a generator is small or a shore power cord has low voltage or is long and small it balances the various energy input sources dynamically so as not to overdraw a weak source. In consumer grade equipment this is very much a new computer age type function.  . . . . To me this is the Holy Grail in inverter-charger functionality. This Xantrex XC Pro achieves some of this functionality but the way it is described/implemented it leaves me a bit confused. . . . . . 

UPDATE: 6/18/21 after experiments

Seems apparent that Xantrex XC Pro 2000 & 3000 are not able to provide what I think will soon be the 'new normal' for inverter-chargers, that is what sometimes is called "Generator Support". A small generator contributes what power it has available and the inverter uses that power and adds power from batteries as needed to supply demand. That is in stark contrast to a DUMB . . . 'switch to the grid totally' when AC is sensed with no judgment about the capability of the AC source.

The Xantrex XC Pro can modulate charging current a bit to help prevent overload of a 'GRID' source, but when Xantrex XC Pro is 'ON THE GRID' , i.e. an AC is available, it is totally dumb about judging the capability of the AC source.   EXAMPLE:  If the Honda 2000EU is running providing 'GRID Power' and the HVAC is running I can adjust parameters #24,#28 and the generator is then operating within its capabilities and not overwhelmed by HVAC + Battery Charging . HOWEVER, as soon as I turn on the HotWater pot the generator is overwhelmed with 21Amp draw for HVAC & HotPot.  A Victron of some of the other older big Xantrex would sense that the generator was being overwhelmed and allowed the battery-inverter to supply demand and the limited generator to help as much a possible but not choke on the LARGE POWER DEMAND.

 

I'm a bit confused as to the intend of #28.  In dealing with the folks at Xantrex, they've explained that the units will always prioritize appliance demand over charging.  For example, when I use my air conditioner, there is very little power, if any, flowing to the batteries.  Is 28 intended to set a limit so the inverter/ charger won't try to feed an appliance and bulk charge the batteries at the same time?  I may be doing it wrong but I've always set #28 to reflect the available "grid" power so I set it to 15amps when on a 15a circuit, 30amp when at a campground with 30a service, 18a when using my Honda 2200i, etc...

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