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In search of a tow vehicle. . .


Keith-n-Jill
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11 minutes ago, Boudicca908 said:

And also if anyone has had opportunity to test the new Toyota Tundra.

Sorry but these new Toyota trucks are not due at dealerships until December and even then it will not be the full line until late 1st quarter next year.  There is a lot of chatter because their trucks have proven to be reliable, comfortable hard working trucks over time and have a great, loyal fan base.  Whenever a major manufacturer announces a totally redesigned line and its being the first major change from Toyota in its larger truck in something like 16 years, there will be great interest.

I've said it many times on this Forum - there is not a "bad" 1/2 ton or even 3/4 ton truck out on the new market today.  Comfort is subjective, interior design is subjective but all of the performance specs on these trucks fall fairly close to each other.

In today's market - good luck in finding the "right" truck for your needs.

Bill  

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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It really is a very odd car market. Used pricing is up 30% over last year. We have been looking for a new crossover for my wife, certain brands are unobtanium, the local Toyota sales drone actually laughed at us, we walked in and expected to see a new RAV4. How droll! They are not even taking orders. In Seattle, some dealerships are pretty much ghost towns, what comes in off the truck is already sold at well over MSRP (“Market Adjustment” AKA theft), so there are no cars to view, much less to test drive. Unless you want a Volvo, he had all kinds of inventory. But those dealers list all that ghost inventory on their websites. They do not say “In Transit” they say “Call for availability.” what crap, pardon my language. My wife made a special trip there, a five hour drive, to look at cars, and then found out that they were expected next week.

We test drove a 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec yesterday at Autonation here in Spokane, what a wonderful car! It was Certified Used with 40,000 miles, and had just come out of the detail shop. By the time we returned it, it had been sold for $45,000, sight unseen! We placed an order on a brand new 2022 model with much more equipment at MSRP ($52,000). It won't get here until spring, we can wait. The salesperson did not even take a deposit. “If you back out, it will be gone within four hours.”

I feel sorry for folks who need a vehicle right now and have to pay new car prices for old cars. I do not have ANY faith that 2022 will improve, on the contrary it may get even more difficult. So far Acuras do not seem to be so hard to find, too bad they don’t make a truck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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2 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

Talk to me about Chevys, please! And also if anyone has had opportunity to test the new Toyota Tundra. 

I’ve never owned a Chevy truck… I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the truck manufacturers.  I’ve owned Toyotas (2), Fords (3), Rams (3) and International Harvester (‘71 - a classic).  All were good, I’m sure a Chevrolet or GMC would be good as well.  In the current market you may not have a lot of choice, if it has the features and comfort you’re looking for it will be fine.  Mike 

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Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

ALAZARCACOFLGAIDILKSKYLAMDMSMOMTNENVNMNYNCNDOHOKSCSDTNTXUTVAWVWYsm.jpgALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMAMS

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Fwiw, I  still love my 2005 Silverado stepside. One of my favorite vehicles of all time. 

I wish it had more modern features,  but, it still runs great, and I  like it's smaller size compared to today's half tons. Even when I get a new vehicle, we'll probably keep it.

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

 

 

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My Colorado is the first Chevy I've ever had.  Drove Tacomas for 35 years straight and that was a total of just 3 trucks.  To my tastes, the Toyotas kept inching up in price and down in value so I thought I'd try something new.  Loved the Colorado and had no problems with it aside from routine maintenance.  Super comfy and dependable ride.  The only reason I went with the Ford 150 instead of a Chevy 1500 is that I am a one vehicle guy so need a semi fuel efficient (for a truck) and capable tow vehicle.  The Ford seemed to offer the best combination and has a similar dependability record to the Silverados.  Managed to get the build I wanted with all the tow and safety add ons at just under $50k so am pretty happy with the order.  Trucks are obscenely and unfairly expensive but, like most of the folks on this forum, there's no getting around it.  Even if I never towed, I'm live a very "trucky" lifestyle.

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This morning I, unfortunately, read an article in the current edition of "RV Magazine" (page 54 - Tech Q&A) which talks about GM's L84 5.3 liter V-8 and L87 6.2 liter V-8 gasoline engines.  Apparently (according to the article) there is a manufacturing defect in these engines for 2019 and newer models across most of the General Motors line to include Chevy and Cadillac.  Also included are V-8 engines used in 2500 and 3500 trucks  (L82, L84, L8T)  Repairs are covered under warranty.

Bill

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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4 hours ago, topgun2 said:

This morning I, unfortunately, read an article in the current edition of "RV Magazine" (page 54 - Tech Q&A) which talks about GM's L84 5.3 liter V-8 and L87 6.2 liter V-8 gasoline engines.  Apparently (according to the article) there is a manufacturing defect in these engines for 2019 and newer models across most of the General Motors line to include Chevy and Cadillac.  Also included are V-8 engines used in 2500 and 3500 trucks  (L82, L84, L8T)  Repairs are covered under warranty.

Bill -- Thanks for heads up on the new Tundra; I was trying to decipher all that chatter and not getting it. Also, thanks for the reference to RV Magazine, I will look for it this week. I do feel that I need to read some more reviews about vehicles and study about TV and RV in general (suggestions appreciated). The Chevy I am considering is a diesel engine, so hopefully the defects you mentioned are not involved with those models. 

Oliver Elite II Twin   Tow Vehicle: Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

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7 hours ago, John E Davies said:

In Seattle, some dealerships are pretty much ghost towns, what comes in off the truck is already sold at well over MSRP (“Market Adjustment” AKA theft), so there are no cars to view, much less to test drive. Unless you want a Volvo, he had all kinds of inventory. But those dealers list all that ghost inventory on their websites. They do not say “In Transit” they say “Call for availability.” what crap, pardon my language. My wife made a special trip there, a five hour drive, to look at cars, and then found out that they were expected next week.

Unfortunately I had a similar experience today, traveling an hour each way on a friend's recommendation, to look at another dealership. What I found was 1) slim pickings, 2) extreme prices, PLUS 3) dealer "fees" that were not mentioned on their website price quotes that added up to $10,000 per used vehicle for a "protective coat" they added to the paint jobs (done deal on every car in the lot) PLUS a second dealer fee that varied from $3,900 down to $1,900. They had 2 used 3/4 ton 2500 trucks (one Chevy, one GMC) and the salesman wouldn't even retrieve the keys to let me look at the Chevy (!) but it didn't matter because the extra $9,999 + $2,989 drove the price to $62,000 (plus tax title license) for a 4yo vehicle with 100k miles. The new one I'm considering is $69k (plus tax, title, license) and has a much nicer trim, plus modern accoutrements. 

Did I mention the Heads-Up display in the Chevy? It's the first I've seen in a vehicle. 

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Oliver Elite II Twin   Tow Vehicle: Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

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27 minutes ago, Boudicca908 said:

Did I mention the Heads-Up display in the Chevy? It's the first I've seen in a vehicle. 

Not necessarily new as the 2002 corvette had it standard. However, I’m sure it’s far more advanced now.  I don’t envy anyone looking for a nice new or used truck right now, not a good buying environment. 

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42 minutes ago, ChrisMI said:

Not necessarily new as the 2002 corvette had it standard. However, I’m sure it’s far more advanced now.  I don’t envy anyone looking for a nice new or used truck right now, not a good buying environment. 

Wow -- I had no idea. This appears to show up on the windshield, but it's hard to really say. I could see the speed limit, my current speed, and there were warnings as I approached a school zone. The downside of all of this new technology (imo) is that it's all requiring those pesky little chips that are stuck somewhere 'in transit' or not yet available. I miss the days when I helped my Dad gap the plugs and change the timing belt, when it felt possible to do some of the maintenance on an engine. 

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Oliver Elite II Twin   Tow Vehicle: Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

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Test drove a new 2021 Ram 1500 with 3.0L Diesel last Friday.  Best riding pickup I have ever driven. Hard to find one equipped how we want one.

Talked to a local Toyota dealer yesterday and he told me they had three 2022 SR5 Tundras allotted & coming in December, He would not let me place a deposit on one because he does not have pricing yet, even though adjacent region Toyota dealers are disclosing pricing.

Still looking at other brands, too.

Here's one of the 2022 Tundra pricing videos:

 

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Tundra LE2

 

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New truck looks really nice. Hopefully the limited crew 6.5 can keep the payload above 1500 lbs. Pricing looks to be around 3-4K higher than last year which isn’t too bad. Hopefully they’ll be available for msrp next summer. 

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On 10/31/2021 at 10:24 AM, tallmandan said:

2021 Silverado 1500 with the new 3.0L Duramax

I’m curious about the axle on your truck. I’m looking at the ‘22 Silverado 2500 6.6L Duramax Turbo Diesel V8, with the 10-spd. On one part of the description, it says the axle ratio is 3.42. On another post in this thread someone mentioned that the smaller axle ratio would not have as much power — boy do I have a lot to learn! 

Oliver Elite II Twin   Tow Vehicle: Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

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9 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

I’m curious about the axle on your truck. I’m looking at the ‘22 Silverado 2500 6.6L Duramax Turbo Diesel V8, with the 10-spd. On one part of the description, it says the axle ratio is 3.42. On another post in this thread someone mentioned that the smaller axle ratio would not have as much power — boy do I have a lot to learn! 

The 6.6 Duramax is the easy button. No numbers to crunch or compromise needed until you more than double the weight of an elite II. I drive a ‘21 duramax and a older 6L gas with the same trailers down the same roads. I have to rail on the gas engine while the diesel doesn’t even move above 2k rpm.  If I drop the hammer with a 10k lb trailer I need to make sure the load is VERY secure. 

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On 11/7/2021 at 8:02 PM, Boudicca908 said:

I’m curious about the axle on your truck. I’m looking at the ‘22 Silverado 2500 6.6L Duramax Turbo Diesel V8, with the 10-spd. On one part of the description, it says the axle ratio is 3.42. On another post in this thread someone mentioned that the smaller axle ratio would not have as much power — boy do I have a lot to learn! 

I went to look at the window sticker from my Chevy 1500 3.0L Duramax and the axle ratio is 3.23.  I'm not an engineer or a mechanic but I believe that is to favor fuel economy which is a main selling point of the the 3.0L deisel powertrain.  I'm sure a 6.6L 2500 truck has more power and stability in towing but I'm just saying that my 1500 has performed well for me in towing my LE2.  I've been more than satisfied with the low-end torque/power and it feels comfortable to me in handling the task of towing.  I do use the Anderson weight distributing hitch which I believe you would not really need on a 2500.  

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2020 Elite II #627, 2021 Silverado 1500 3.0L Duramax, Colorado

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  • 2 weeks later...

We have just placed our order for an Elite II and have turned our attention to a new tow vehicle.  We are considering a Toyota Tundra or a Ford F150.  We have a question about the Ford and choice of engine, is the V6 eco boost a good choice rather than the larger V8.  I've had a look on the forum, have previous  threads looked at these vehicles?

 

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10 hours ago, Dunnet said:

We have a question about the Ford and choice of engine, is the V6 eco boost a good choice rather than the larger V8.

I've owned two of the 3.5 liter Ford engines and have been basically very happy with both.  Unbelievable power, speed and decent gas mileage (as long as you are able to control those urges in your right foot) when not towing and acceptable gas mileage when towing.  No issues what so ever in towing on the flats or in the mountains - plenty of power for both. 

For what I think are obvious reasons, any relatively smaller turbo'd engine is somewhat more complicated than a comparable non-turbo'd V8 engine.  There are numerous YouTube videos out there where pundits champion one versus the other.

I tend to not keep vehicles any longer than 5 or 6 years.  Unless I'm on the road my vehicles are always stored in a garage, all maintenance is completed at or ahead of schedule and I consider myself a conservative driver - if I have a "need for speed" I hop on a motorcycle where the sensation of speed is generally amplified.  Perhaps these are the reasons I've not had any troubles with either of the Ford trucks I've owned - or - perhaps, it is because I'm lucky 😉.  If you tend to keep your vehicles a lot longer than I do, you might want to pay more attention to the "simpler is better" argument.  If you plan to use this new truck as your daily driver and put a bunch of miles on it then, again, perhaps simpler is better.  If you embrace newer tech (even though turbos have been around for quite a number of years), want better gas mileage, don't mind the "sound" of the turbo'd engines versus the "growl" of a V8 then you've got your answer.

Good luck!

Bill 

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/6/2021 at 3:50 PM, topgun2 said:

This morning I, unfortunately, read an article in the current edition of "RV Magazine" (page 54 - Tech Q&A) which talks about GM's L84 5.3 liter V-8 and L87 6.2 liter V-8 gasoline engines.  Apparently (according to the article) there is a manufacturing defect in these engines for 2019 and newer models across most of the General Motors line to include Chevy and Cadillac.  Also included are V-8 engines used in 2500 and 3500 trucks  (L82, L84, L8T)  Repairs are covered under warranty.

Bill

Does that article only refer to gasoline engines? Or does it include the diesel engines? 

Oliver Elite II Twin   Tow Vehicle: Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

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I've been AWOL from the forum, but not for lack of interest or enthusiasm. My research was interrupted by:

  • a dead washing machine (stacked unit) -- a new unit finally ordered after obligatory searching and gnashing of teeth, and then an email 3 days later announcing the "delay"; no time certain for delivery ("next week we will inform you" reminds me of "The Money Pit" scene);
  • plumbing disasters-in-the-making discovered when said laundry stack was pulled out from the closet ($2,000 later I am feeling thankful that the washer broke?).

So to update my own Tow Vehicle search: I'm still looking at the 2022 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD diesel, with cold hard cash down for the 'first right of refusal'; yesterday I heard that the official build date is Monday 12/6/21 -- progress! It's also still the ONLY vehicle that I've been able to claim an option to buy -- ALL others have already been pre-sold sight-unseen online or over the phone. Most people know what they want and what the vehicle will feel like, so I'm at a clear disadvantage. However, I was able to sit in and test drive a used high-trim model very similar to this one, as I said. 

However! I just spoke with a local Toyota dealer who is (finally) receiving some 2022 Tundras (the V6, not the iMax Hybrids that are not expected until mid-Spring) and I plan to go meet with him to give the specs a better look. The iMax sounds like the better vehicle of the two -- they are touting fuel efficiency will be greatly improved (high 20s). It will be interesting to see. Only thing is -- my Oliver will be ready for pickup in March. I have to ask my salesman about temporary storage there in Tennessee if I'm going to delay my pickup. 

Oliver Elite II Twin   Tow Vehicle: Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

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1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

Does that article only refer to gasoline engines? Or does it include the diesel engines? 

I believe that the article I referenced mentions that only the gassers are being talked about.  However, the engine designations are cited in my post.  Since I'm not intimate with these GM products I can not tell you for certain that all of them are gasoline engines.  If I was considering a GM truck I'd be sure to ask.

Good luck!

Bill

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

However! I just spoke with a local Toyota dealer who is (finally) receiving some 2022 Tundras (the V6, not the iMax Hybrids that are not expected until mid-Spring) and I plan to go meet with him to give the specs a better look. The iMax sounds like the better vehicle of the two -- they are touting fuel efficiency will be greatly improved (high 20s). It will be interesting to see.

I too am interested in the new Tundra.  But, I viewed a Youtube vid this morning (I can't seem to find it right now though) that mentioned a couple of things that are at least of some concern.  I don't think that you can get a large gas tank in it.  There is no "assist" of any kind for getting in the bed of the truck - neither tailgate steps nor steps around the sides (anywhere).  Both GM and Ford have variations of these and while I still have no difficulty getting into the bed, I've found that the tailgate step on my F-150 makes it easier particularly when carrying something.  I agree with you that it appears that the upgraded engine is the way to go and I've also heard that these will not be available until mid to late Spring.  There doesn't appear to be anything "wrong" with the base v6 but it does seem to be any better (or worse) than either the Ford or GM products.  If I can locate the vid I saw this morning I'll come back and post it for you.

Bill

FOUND IT!

Tundra Review

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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Here's Toyota's Tundra trim, package, standard, options, and specification link for the 2022 Tundra. 

https://toyota-cms-media.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2022_Toyota_Tundra_Product_Information_FINAL.pdf

Our SR5 that's coming in late December has the "SR5 Convenience Package" that includes the 32.2 gallon tank. 

 

 

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Tundra LE2

 

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13 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

Our SR5 that's coming in late December has the "SR5 Convenience Package" that includes the 32.2 gallon tank

That's great - thanks!

Bill

2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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