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Doghouse Attachment Bolts Loose


Hokieman

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While scooting around underneath my Oliver on my creeper greasing the chassis, I did a quick inspection of everything I could see.  I noticed one of the the two 3/8” stainless steel bolts that secure the propane tank enclosure to the hull was loose, had backed out about 1/2”.   Both of the bolt heads could be turned by hand, but could not be tightened externally, there are nuts on the other end that were spinning.   I turned in a service ticket and asked for DIY instructions.  Jason got back to me right away with 2  local RV repair centers that would fix it under warranty.   He also gave me step-by -step DIY instructions, which were easy to follow.   I prefer to do it myself, it was an easy task.   It involved removing the bath vanity to get to the nuts on the ends of the bolts.    The SS nuts had flat & lock washers, but obviously had not been tightened during production.  I replaced the 3/8” SS nuts with SS nylon lock nuts, and all is well.   While I was in there, I removed the toilet water supply line and valve, and capped off the tee it was connected to.    I have the NH composting toilet.   I also removed the black tank flush lines and back flow preventer, will save for a future owner that might want a flush toilet.   I opened up the black tank drain and found it had quite a bit of RV antifreeze inside.  Apparently  the factory had added it to the black tank during the winterizing process.    This was obviously not needed, but perhaps they do them all the  same, regardless.   So if you are underneath your trailer, you might give those bolts a quick check.  

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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Thanks for posting, did you take any pics of the flush toilet water line that you can share? I plan to disconnect mine eventually, but so far I never had a need to go digging around under that sink. If you did not already cap the black tank rinse through-hull fitting, do so, in case somebody tries to hook a garden hose up to it and floods the interior! That could be quite a geyser!

John Davies

Spokane WA

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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 I cut the blue PEX tube several inches after the tee into the water supply line to the sink.  Then I put a brass 1/2” PEX plug and crimped it with a copper ring.   I snipped off the toilet supply valve, and pushed the line thru the hole in the  fiberglass, and a 4’ section of blue PEX line slid right out.  Yes, I will cap off that outside connection to avoid user error.   I didn’t have a cap on hand, need to go to store.  By the way, the two white PEX lines you see in the photos are the flush lines, the same ones you already disconnected from the flush inlet and the other one on the black tank.   They lead to a brass backflow preventer underneath the countertop.   I pulled those out too, came right out easily.   You can also see the black tank vent line, it’s a 1.5” abs pipe that connects to the vent line going to the roof, right next to the composting toilet vent hose. 

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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If anyone else finds that these bolts are loose, there is an easier fix.  

Rather than removing the vanity to access the head of the bolts for a holdback,  clamp a pair of vice grips on the threaded portion of the bolts and then tighten up the nuts.  If it were me, I would back off the nuts a tad so that I could put on some Locktite before snugging them down.  Obviously this will only work if the bolts are long enough like the ones in the photo.

Yes the vice grips will damage the threads, but it is unlikely that you would ever have the need to remove these particular fasteners.  If they ever had to be removed you would need to cut off the damaged portion to remove the nuts.

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Mike and Yasuko

2021 Legacy Elite Hull #820 

 

 

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4 hours ago, LongStride said:

Yes the vice grips will damage the threads, but it is unlikely that you would ever have the need to remove these particular fasteners.  If they ever had to be removed you would need to cut off the damaged portion to remove the nuts.

Good idea. FYI, if the threads are buggered, you can easily snap a bolt in two, using a big breaker bar, or impact driver, as long as you can hold the other end very securely with a box end wrench or socket. They are not especially strong. I have done this to a 1/2" bumper bolt, where the nut seized solid. That is a little tougher, but doable. These little ones would snap easily. I won't use thread locker on any stainless bolt, it gets anti seize instead. 

John Davies
Spokane WA

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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John, I have no issue using thread locker on a SS fastener that I never plan on removing.  If it were something critical that I still wanted to be able to remove if necessary sometime down the road, I would use anti-seize and double nut it.

I agree with you that 3/8" and smaller stainless bolts snap pretty easily.  However, I don't think that I would attempt that if the fastener was sandwiching  a fiberglass component that I did not want to damage.  I would use a cutoff wheel instead.

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Mike and Yasuko

2021 Legacy Elite Hull #820 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Mike D. said:

 I cut the blue PEX tube several inches after the tee into the water supply line to the sink.  Then I put a brass 1/2” PEX plug and crimped it with a copper ring.

I changed my mind on this.  Initially I intended  to make it easy for a future owner to convert it back to a flush toilet.   But I didnt like it so I eliminated the tee and put in a straight coupler instead. 

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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11 hours ago, LongStride said:

Rather than removing the vanity to access the head of the bolts for a holdback,  clamp a pair of vice grips on the threaded portion of the bolts and then tighten up the nuts.

Slight misunderstanding on my post.   The threaded portion of the bolt is inside the vanity. 

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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I see that in your photos, @Mike D.

Repair process totally depend on which side the bolts are fastened. 

Thanks.

2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. DC compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.


        
 

 

 

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  • 10 months later...

 

1 hour ago, Jim and Chris Neuman said:

No need to replace the bolt if you bugger the bolt threads

I think you misunderstood this post.   No bolts were buggered or replaced, just tightened.  🙂

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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  • 7 months later...
On 10/17/2021 at 2:05 AM, LongStride said:

the vice grips will damage the threads,

Where I have bitter ends of bolts sticking out with extra threads showing, I like the idea of giving them the "Vice Grip Nut Retainer" trick.  Best to do so about 1/4" from the bitter end so that should you need to remove the nuts/washers and lock washers you can drive the nut off and reinstall another new one on clean and pretty much undamaged old threads.  

The obvious advantage of having a means to retain the hardware, is that should you notice its loose, you just need to tighten things up.... with a bit of Locktite as suggested. 

The alternatives are to either double nut (more weight and cost) or center punch the bolt end to make nut loss, and replacement more difficult. 

But the VGNR approach costs nothing and saves time, adds no weight, and prevents loss of hardware in the first place.  

Good reminder so THANKS!

GJ

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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All good ideas about vice grips and whatnot, but the original post was not a request on how to do a repair, it is about loose doghouse bolts 😊.  Vice grips are not the correct tool for this particular project.  The purpose of the post was to suggest you check these on your trailer when convenient.   A recent post from John Dorrer indicated he had the same problem with loose doghouse bolts.  I submitted a service ticket (this was factory error), but repaired the problem myself.  

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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These bolts are important to at least look at when servicing our propane tanks.  Thank you for the reminder!  

These bolts, are among many hundreds on our travel trailers.  Should they loosen and fall down, they  likely will escape the confines of the Dog House.  Their dropping to the pavement could do some damage as they bounced around and exited the area .  Most likely the TV operator would not know when this happens due to having two rubber security straps still in place.  However, finding the now lost bolts along the highway could certainly be a PITA. 

Should this happen, I would have wished that I had been reminded of a very simple way to ensure at least that these bolts didn't run away from home.  So, again I thank you for bringing up the topic of loose dog house cover fixing bolts, and now how to avoid their roadside loss as well.    

Mahalo,

GJ   

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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On 10/17/2021 at 4:55 PM, Hokieman said:

 

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Nice job, I did the same, so I no longer have to risk getting an antifreeze face bath when winterizing. A future owner can deal with the tee.

Your hull 797 image shows an interior rated 120 volt ac junction box installed in a potentially wet location, underneath pressurized  plumbing, it could get sprayed by water from the faucet connections or from a split hose. Has Oliver corrected this in current trailers?

It should be replaced by a plastic waterproof box (gaskets on the cover) or at the very least wrap it in self fusing silicone tape. And open a ticket about it too…..

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6722-how-to-replace-the-120-vac-refrigerator-outlet-under-the-galley-sink-water-lines-with-a-waterproof-junction-box/

Zzzzzzap.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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29 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

Your hull 797 image shows an interior rated 120 volt ac junction box installed in a potentially wet location, underneath pressurized  plumbing, it could get sprayed by water from the faucet connections or from a split hose. Has Oliver corrected this in current trailers?

Yes, it does appear to be a residential style AC junction box.   However, I don’t think there is any AC wiring in there.  I don’t have the 30A optional connection up forward.  I think it’s the junction box for the 12V DC 7 pin wiring harness, and the BAS.   Regardless, a waterproof design would be an improvement, and it’s worth opening up and checking for correct wire glands and connectors.  I think I did that but I didn’t take a photo and cannot remember.   I’ll add it to the list.  I like the way you added insulation.

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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  • 4 months later...

I have a 2022 and just got back from a trip and found the exact same problem.  I do not see how this would happen if the nuts had been properly tightened. Will attempt the repair today and will be changing to the nylon style nuts. Thank you for the post.   No warranty repair option offered. 

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Like @Geronimo John mentioned, good reminder to check these...  Will do after we're back in pocket next week.  Thanks!

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Art, Diane, Oscar & Magnus (double-Aaarrf!)

  • 2022 TUNDRA w/Airlift Load Lifter 5000 kit/2017 LE II; Hull #226 "Casablanca", 12VDC Starlink kit, 3x Battle Borns; Victron Cerbo GX, SmartShunt, MPPT Solar Controller, & DC-DC Charger; HAM call-sign:  W0ABX
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It is a bad sign that the factory continues to use a plain nut and lock washer in this location. It is a sign of corporate penny pinching, because those two parts are marginally cheaper than one self locking nut. A plain nut that is not fully tightened WILL loosen. An improperly torqued nylock nut may not be ideal, but it will never loosen further.

Are the later hulls still lacking adequate insulation under the sink? If you camp in chilly conditions, you should add some there to protect the fresh water lines and sink trap.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/9039-how-to-bath-sink-compartment-mods-duct-rework-insulation-disconnect-flush-line/

John Davies

Spokane WA

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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