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Living with Lithionics—Some Tips, Tricks, and Observations


Fritz

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4 hours ago, VBistro said:

You might want to check your numbers here...most computers use less than 1Ah, not 80.

@VBistro I agree, that is why I am confused. My 80 number comes from Jason in the video when he states the invert amp rate is about 10x. So if your device draws 8amps it is drawing 80amps from the battery through the inverter. Maybe I miss understanding the video (take a listen at the link, the link starts right where he says it). 

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@ZoddThe inverter is taking dc 12v to 120 for the typical user (microwave, keurig, ac.) Hence, 10x , for those 110 /120 appliances. 

In your case, the laptop is plugged into 110 or 120, but converts to a few amps dc, with its own charging brick. It will never use more than it needs, and not likely ever ! 80 amps. More like 1 to 5, max, dc. You will have some power loss, going dc battery to ac inverter back to dc plug/brick on your pc charger, but nowhere near 80 amps  . Maybe 5 , imo.

When we used a pc, 1000 watt inverter, and 110  to dc charger, on agm batteries,  we barely noticed the loss. We did charge during the sunny part of the day, on solar.  Take a look at your brick on the charger, and look at volts and amps.

If I've done the mental math incorrectly,  I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me. 

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. Dc compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.

 

 

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Thanks @SeaDawg I think your statement helps. Maybe I was just misunderstanding the directional part of his statement. BTW this is not about how much a given device does or does not draw (not trying to prove how much a laptop does or does not draw). It was just about his 10x statement of it draw 10x more regardless of device, hence my random example. But if the statement was more about directionally needing to go from 12 to 120 that makes sense. It was not how I hear it but at least makes sense in that framing. For anyone reading this you will not understand the statement if you respond without listening to the clip 🙂

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@Zodd, I  get it. Translation back and forth from 12v dc to 110 ac can be mind-boggling.  

Fwiw, when we switched from a laptop to tablets, we removed the inverter entirely. No need, and less to worry about. Everything we use on a daily basis is 12v. If we need 110, we'll, we'll go to a hookup. Or fire up the generator.  Makes the math so much easier for my little brain. 😁

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. Dc compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.

 

 

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One option for those with an excessively loud charging fan might be to add another smaller charger to the system. A 15-20 amp silent unit could be utilized most of the time with the option to use the high power unit when needed. This might actually increase the battery life with the slower charge rate and likelihood to reduce the depth of discharge. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I received the following private message, and am posting it here in case anyone else has the same question (or to give others a chance to correct my response):

  • "Are there switches/breakers inside the trailer that I need to switch off before I remove my batteries?  I would assume so - like a "main" switch similar to on a house panel that would just power everything off."

I have not yet removed the batteries for the season (I'm still trying to get an inverter issue resolved).  That said, I think the only thing that is necessary is to stop all major loads (e.g., unplug from shore power, turn off major uses (e.g., microwave), and perhaps turn off the solar controller (the red dial-switch located in the upper cabinet above the streetside bed).  Record the SOC and voltage for warranty purposes (I take screenshots of these readings for each battery).  Take a photo of the wiring array before you begin disconnecting terminals to help with reconnection in the spring. Then turn off each of the Lithionics batteries (the light-blue lit button in the far right corner of each battery).  Disconnect the batteries beginning with the primary negative terminal (this is the right-front terminal with multiple, heavy-gauge wires), then disconnect all of the other wires being careful not to accidentally bridge terminals with a wrench.  

As a heads-up for reconnecting in the spring, I think I recall seeing a torque specification in the manual for tightening nuts on the terminals (to avoid damaging the batteries by over tightening terminal nuts).

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2021 Oliver LE2
Ram 2500 diesel

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/4/2021 at 10:39 AM, Fritz said:

Charging to 14.4 volts requires shore power

Charging to 14.4 volts can’t be done with the currently-installed Zamp controller; it must be done with shore power (or perhaps a generator).  This is a limitation of the Zamp pulse-width modulation (PWM) controller; a maximum power point tracking (MPPT) solar charge controller could charge the batteries to 14.4 volts, but this is not what Oliver installs.  Similarly, at least some of the DC-to-DC chargers that have been described in other threads allow the tow vehicle to top off batteries to 14.4 volts, but such a charger requires aftermarket installation.  For an example installation, search for John Davies’ Redarc DC-to-DC charger installation description.

My comment about the Zamp controller in the original post in this thread is incorrect.  The Zamp controller does charge the batteries up 14.4 volts.  

Moderators: I tried to modify the original November 4 post, but could not find the "edit" option. Could one of you please show me how to correct the error in the original post?

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2021 Oliver LE2
Ram 2500 diesel

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13 minutes ago, Fritz said:

Moderators: I tried to modify the original November 4 post, but could not find the "edit" option. Could one of you please show me how to correct the error in the original post?

Until members have made a certain number of posts, editing time is limited to something like 24 hours. Then, the edit button disappears. 

If you would send me a pm with a revised paragraph from your original post, I'll be happy to edit it for you.

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. Dc compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

I am home and learning the ins and outs of Lithionics batteries. I have 2022 Elite II with Pro Solar package (390 Amp/hrs or batteries).

Trailer is currently winterized and I am trying to build confidence in the Lithionics App Status of Charge (SOC) that Fritz and others have discussed here. My batteries read ~13.2 volts with no load but have SOC of 98%, My understanding is 13.2 is closer to 50% and 100% would be 13.6. I am trying to draw down batteries and then recharge to allow the algorithm for SOC to recalibrate (thanks Fritz). What reading should I rely on to decide when to plug in to shore power - Lithionics volts? 

 

First image is Xantrex with inverter on and small heater plugged in (no shore power).

Second is Lithionics readings with heater plugged in. Seems ok.

Third image is Lithionics reading with no load (inverter off).

 

Thanks in advance!

Xantrex_Under_Load_220330.png

Lithionics__Under_Load_2022-03-30_11h53_00.png

Lithionics_No_Load_2022-03-30_11h51_30.png

2022 Oliver Elite II Hull#1047 "Saunter"

2014 VW Touareg TDI

 

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1 hour ago, DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI said:

I am home and learning the ins and outs of Lithionics batteries. I have 2022 Elite II with Pro Solar package (390 Amp/hrs or batteries).

Trailer is currently winterized and I am trying to build confidence in the Lithionics App Status of Charge (SOC) that Fritz and others have discussed here. My batteries read ~13.2 volts with no load but have SOC of 98%, My understanding is 13.2 is closer to 50% and 100% would be 13.6. I am trying to draw down batteries and then recharge to allow the algorithm for SOC to recalibrate (thanks Fritz). What reading should I rely on to decide when to plug in to shore power - Lithionics volts? 

 

First image is Xantrex with inverter on and small heater plugged in (no shore power).

Second is Lithionics readings with heater plugged in. Seems ok.

Third image is Lithionics reading with no load (inverter off).

 

Thanks in advance!


 

I would start by charging the batteries until they go into float.  While charging you will see voltage go up to around 14.5 then start to drop back down to round 13.5.  Once you are in float mode I would give the cells a chance to balance.  You will see a status code on the Lithionics  app if the battery cells are balancing.  Then apply a load to the system like a small space heater.  Allow this to run while periodic checking the SOC for each battery.  They should be relatively close.  You can allow the batteries to drop down to their Low voltage cutoff which is controlled by the BMS.  You might have to check the inverter settings before doing this since the inverter also has a setting that will stop discharging the batteries at a preset voltage.  If I remember correctly mine was set higher than the BMS setting.  Also be aware that the batteries will not all shut off at once so you have to make sure the load you are using doesn’t stress the system when you get down to one battery.

 

John

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John and Kim

2021 GMC Sierra 2500 AT4 6.6L Duramax 11350 GVWR  3048lb Payload

2021 Oliver Elite II.   Hull #887

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  • 4 months later...

I don't want to know ANY of this technical stuff. I just want the darn thing to work. If I have to learn all this, I want my money back.

George and Melinda Pierce

2022 EII hull 1171, 2021 Ford 150 Hybrid with Pro Power OnboardARILINKYMOOKTNTXWIsm.jpg.7e6a430ac6dab72f4414d0a39dc0cc8f.jpg

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10 hours ago, MnG KY said:

I don't want to know ANY of this technical stuff. I just want the darn thing to work. If I have to learn all this, I want my money back.

I understand the frustration.  You don’t need to be a technical expert, I’m certainly not.  But, a basic understanding of all the systems in your trailer and how they work is important.  You need to know where the fuse box is and what all is in it, where the big circuit breakers are under the seat and bed (where mine are) and how to know if they are tripped and how to reset.  What the readouts on your solar controller mean.  Where the microwave is plugged in, where your black tank and gray tank valves are located, where the water pump is and how it is wired, how to manually raise/lower your jacks, etc.  I say all these things because I have had to address them in my own trailer over the years.  Knowledge will come over time, you pick up nuggets of info slowly just by asking questions and getting help from other owners and from Oliver Service.  Mike

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Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

ALAZARCACOFLGAIDILKSKYLAMDMSMOMTNENVNMNYNCNDOHOKSCSDTNTXUTVAWVWYsm.jpgALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMAMS

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Mike, thanks for that reply. We are learning a lot fast. I did not realize I was going to have to monitor all the systems as much as we are. I thought managing the black tank would be my biggest hurdle, but that so far has been the easiest. 

 

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George and Melinda Pierce

2022 EII hull 1171, 2021 Ford 150 Hybrid with Pro Power OnboardARILINKYMOOKTNTXWIsm.jpg.7e6a430ac6dab72f4414d0a39dc0cc8f.jpg

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1 hour ago, MnG KY said:

Mike, thanks for that reply. We are learning a lot fast. I did not realize I was going to have to monitor all the systems as much as we are. I thought managing the black tank would be my biggest hurdle, but that so far has been the easiest. 

 

These things seem to happen one-by-one.  You won’t forget to check to see if your batteries are on again and you’ll know that if there is no 12V to check the batteries and the breakers.  If your water pump quits working, don’t panic.  There are two red wires that connect to the underside of the pump, they like to come disconnected if you travel some rough roads.  Easy to fix.  If the microwave quits, check to see if it is still plugged in to 110V.  Etc, etc.  There’s help here on the forum, lots of smart, technical folks and some not so technical (me) who have dealt with seemingly big issues that turn out to be no big deal.  Pretty soon you’ll be giving advice!  Enjoy your camping!  Mike

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Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

ALAZARCACOFLGAIDILKSKYLAMDMSMOMTNENVNMNYNCNDOHOKSCSDTNTXUTVAWVWYsm.jpgALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMAMS

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29 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

These things seem to happen one-by-one.  You won’t forget to check to see if your batteries are on again and you’ll know that if there is no 12V to check the batteries and the breakers.  If your water pump quits working, don’t panic.  There are two red wires that connect to the underside of the pump, they like to come disconnected if you travel some rough roads.  Easy to fix.  If the microwave quits, check to see if it is still plugged in to 110V.  Etc, etc.  There’s help here on the forum, lots of smart, technical folks and some not so technical (me) who have dealt with seemingly big issues that turn out to be no big deal.  Pretty soon you’ll be giving advice!  Enjoy your camping!  Mike

Thanks for the encouragement. !

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George and Melinda Pierce

2022 EII hull 1171, 2021 Ford 150 Hybrid with Pro Power OnboardARILINKYMOOKTNTXWIsm.jpg.7e6a430ac6dab72f4414d0a39dc0cc8f.jpg

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