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Imelda
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Hi all, I currently pull my Oliver 2 with a F250 6.7L diesel which is a bit of an over kill to tow it. The truck doesn't know it even pulling the trailer. The price of diesel is through the roof, gas is much cheaper and trying to find diesel pumps can be harder than the regular gas pumps. Down sizing to a smaller tow vehicle will get better gas mileage.  I am looking at trading it in for a Nissan Titan SV crew cab or maybe an XD. Anyone have any experience with the Titans and if I go with the smaller SV will I have have install all the sway bars and weight distribution options etc. I don't need those with the current F250 I am using. 

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I will go as far to say that ALL 1/2 ton trucks require a weight distribution hitch.  The Andersen WDH is the only one that will work with the Oliver Travel Trailer without modification of the fiberglass.

You are partially correct in your analysis of the gas versus diesel tow vehicle issue.  On average (if not totally) diesel trucks will get better fuel mileage while towing something like the Oliver. But, on average, a 1/2 ton truck will get better mileage while not towing.  Therefore, part of the analysis should include a good estimate of what percentage of towing with and without.  Also, generally diesel trucks will be more expensive that their gas counterpart due primarily to the durability of the diesel engine.  Again, an analysis of the length of time you plan on keeping the truck should enter into the equation.  Finally, don't forget to take into consideration the "payload" capacity of the truck you are considering.  Virtually all 3/4 ton trucks will have more payload capacity and if you tend to carry a bunch of "stuff" (to include people and critters) with you, this could present a problem if you decide to downsize to a 1/2 ton.

Good luck on your decision!  

Bill

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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Everybody talks about "overkill" like it's a bad thing.  I love overkill, you can't have too much power and torque going up and down hills. and the longevity and mileage of a diesel is phenomenal.  And besides all that, you already own this truck. I doubt anyone will trade even with you (maybe...) so how long will it take for the modest savings in gas vs diesel to surpass the price difference between the old and the new truck. Plus, you will be able to tell a big difference in your towing experience. I've towed our Oliver Elite II with three different vehicles: 2014 GMC Sierra SLT 1500, 2017 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD High Country, 2022 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD High Country. All were 4x4. The GMC was Gasoline, both Chevrolet's diesel. No comparison. If you do decide to downgrade to a 1500, be very aware of your cargo carrying capacity, you very well may not have enough truck to carry your gear and tow the Oliver safely.

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher and Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie and Lucy (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

             801469912_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-I.jpg.26814499292ab76ee55b889b69ad3ef0.jpg1226003278_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-H.jpg.dc46129cb4967a7fd2531b16699e9e45.jpg

 

 

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I get better mileage with my diesel than I did with either of the half ton gas V8’s both towing and not towing.  Towing is more pleasant with the 2500.  Payload is never an issue.  Maintenance cost is more, but is out weighed by the better mileage, payload and less stress towing.

You’ll need to get an Andersen if you downsize to a half ton.  I think Nissan makes a nice truck, but you’d be giving away a lot of capability.  Mike

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Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

ALAZARCACOFLGAIDILKSKYLAMDMSMOMTNENVNMNYNCNDOHOKSCSDTNTXUTVAWVWYsm.jpgALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMAMS

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Thanks all for the feed back. I am considering all points made here.  Given the outrageous asking prices and lack of availability of new trucks maybe I should just get my current F250 6.7L (that I already own that easily pulls the trailer without an Anderson hitch) own cleaned and detailed so its like a new truck. I am going to think on this some more.

 

Imelda

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I’m in the same group as Steve.   Overkill when towing and loaded up with cargo is never a bad thing.   I’m towing with an F-250 6.2 gas engine, and this is our third tow vehicle after a Ford Expedition and a Nissan Armada. Both of those were ok for towing the Elite II but when fully loaded there wasn’t much safety margin, and they struggled a bit when towing over steep mountains.  I would never downsize to a smaller tow vehicle at this point.  I love the way the F-250 handles towing the EII, even with the pickup bed loaded with all our camping gear, two bicycles, etc.  

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2019 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Hull #461

Tow Vehicle: 2019 Ford F-250 SuperCab 4x4, 6.2L Flex-Fuel engine  

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I tow the Elite 2 with a 2021 Titan XD.  I don't tow with an Andersen.  The XD is definitely more truck than the normal Titan.  I don't think you need the Andersen with the Titan XD.

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2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Hull #948 - Tow Vehicle: 2021 Nissan Titan XD

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If you want more comfort, a recent 3/4 ton Ram 6.4 Hemi with air or coil rear suspension will ride a lot more comfortably than your Ford. I personally will not buy another diesel. The gas engines are good enough and won’t eat you alive with long term maintenance costs.  If you want to stick with Ford, the new “Godzilla” 7.4 liter gas engine is  great choice for low operating cost and good towing ability.

My 2006 Ram 3500 Cummins diesel towed the Ollie without stress, but the ride was brutal, the seats were horrible, and the reliability was not there. My Land Cruiser 5.7 tows just adequately, but everything else about it is way way better.

In this weird car and truck market it would be foolhardy to trade for the reasons you mentioned. Wait a couple of years.

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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On my RAM Rebel 1500 5.7 gas engine, I have air suspension, which has 3 settings for different heights of the body off the ground. The lower settings is supposed to allow for the best gas mileage. With the air suspension, the ride is as good as past cars I have owned. One of the RAM service persons told me that he had the same RAM Rebel without the air suspension and the ride was awful so I am glad I have the air suspension.

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2018 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #354 

2018 RAM 1500 Rebel 4 x 4, 5.7 Hemi, 3.92 gear ratio

Maine

 

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Wow, a post that everyone pretty much agreed on towing, I see no one thought the mid-size pickups fit into this topic and can do the job, which they can't. 

trainman

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Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #489, 2019 RAM 1500, 5.7 Hemi, 4X4, Crew Cab, 5'7" bed, Towing Package, 3.92 Gears.

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13 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I personally will not buy another diesel. The gas engines are good enough and won’t eat you alive with long term maintenance costs.

I loved my diesel, until I didn't. Towed my fifth wheel like a monster. Up long grades, leaving the big trucks in my wake. That cool diesel sound. But then, sitting on the side of I-80 at 5:00 PM with the entire contents of my oil pan all over my truck and fiver thanks to a failed high pressure oil sensor put a real bad taste in my mouth. When the third turbo started to fail on the trip home, that did it. Traded it in for my gasser. Don't get me wrong, diesels are great when you need them, but I don't see another in my future.

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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My 2006 Ram Cummins ate ball joints, and there was only about two inches up up travel because of that huge oil pan. The engine weighs 600 pounds more than a gas Hemi. That is one reason they don’t offer the Cummins in the Power Wagon, all that extra weight hanging over the front end would destroys the off road capability.

The power steering and hydraulically boosted brakes are tied together intimately, when the pump fails, it spreads metal particles through all those components. So you need new pump, new brake booster, new steering rack, and new lines. This happened right after delivery of my Ollie, repairs were over $4000. It really put a damper the excitement of having a new trailer.

Oil changes, fuel filters, injectors, DEF, fuel additives, emission devices …. big pickup diesels have an awful lot of negatives to go with their lovely brute power. The new Sequoia has as much torque as my Cummins 5.9 did…. with SIX extra gears and 2500 pounds less curb weight. It is really hard to justify old tech trucks for towing a light trailer.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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I am thinking the same thing. Diesel trucks are expensive to work on and I don't need my current tow vehicle that can put up to 19,000 lbs. to tow an Oliver2. So, I am back to mulling over the Titan XD but not sure if I need a 4WD. I plan to stay on pavement and the 4WD would add cost and more things to go wrong. Anyone got any thoughts on the 4WD option.

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Imelda....I use the following hitch...nothing special.  This seems to do the trick for me.  A lot of folks say that the XD isn't a half ton (1/2) or a three quarter ton (3/4) truck.  I have seen several people say (and I agree) that it slots in between the two...more like a 5/8 ton truck.  If you do get an XD, there have been a lot of folks I have seen that have had issues with the Cummins diesel engine (no longer produced in new XDs).  I would suggest getting the Gas V8.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200738942_200738942?cm_mmc=Google-LIA&utm_source=Google_LIA&utm_medium=Trailers %2B Towing > Ball Mount Hitches > Dual-Purpose&utm_campaign=Uriah&utm_content=65693&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiMHd_fXP9QIV3RXUAR1MzQS8EAQYASABEgLZovD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

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2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Hull #948 - Tow Vehicle: 2021 Nissan Titan XD

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1 hour ago, Imelda said:

I am thinking the same thing. Diesel trucks are expensive to work on and I don't need my current tow vehicle that can put up to 19,000 lbs. to tow an Oliver2. So, I am back to mulling over the Titan XD but not sure if I need a 4WD. I plan to stay on pavement and the 4WD would add cost and more things to go wrong. Anyone got any thoughts on the 4WD option.

There are times when 4wd will save your @ss, pardon my language, the alternative being getting a tow. Would you rather engage 4 Low and drive out, or have your day ruined by having to wait for a recovery? (Assuming you even have a cell signal to call for help.) And obviously, if you get caught in inclement weather, it means being able to drive over a mountain pass without having to chain up. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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I look at the 4X4 question this way - 

Even though I have rarely used the 4X4 function on any of my vehicles that have had it - I always know it is there IF I should need it.  And, there certainly have been those times that I've needed it - as John Davies eludes to.  Even one time can make it so much worth it.

Then, when I sell the vehicle, it is much easier to sell and I get most (if not all) of the extra money that I paid for the 4X4 function back.

Bill

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2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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Of all places, in the camp area of the Abenteuer Allrad fair, which is more or less the European equivalent of the Overland Expo.  It had been raining a lot, and we needed to turn the truck around.  I backed the rear wheels onto a wet, muddy piece of grass, and that was that.  The front wheels were still on the pavement.  The ground was as even as can be, but the truck would not move.  There were plenty of four-wheel drive vehicles at the camp area to pull us out, but it was a bit embarrassing.” – Joerg Walzenbach, 2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD, two-wheel drive truck, 2011 Outfitter Apex 8 LB

https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/question-of-the-week/four-wheel-drive-while-truck-camping-part-1/

https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/question-of-the-week/the-four-wheel-drive-low-down-part-2/

That is a whole lot of feedback. Mostly positive. One guy said he brought home his new Ford pickup and was disappointed to find out when he got there that it was NOT 4WD. I think most folks would check that before signing. 😳

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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There are cons for 4x4. Reduced gas mileage. More parts to fail. I haven't used 4x4 very often while towing. We don't tow in the snow and we're not (currently) frequent boondockers, so we could probably live without it. However, the few times I used it, I was glad to have it. Most often, it has simply been wet grass in our back yard, where the trailer is stored. A few times, we wouldn't have gotten the trailer back into the yard without 4x4. Needed it once or twice on wet grass in a campground, too. If your trailering is going to be limited strictly to snow-free paved roads, commercial campgrounds, and driveways you might not need it. I would be uncomfortable without it.

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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I use my 4X4 multiple to get to most of our camping and almost all of our Hang Gliding and Paragliding launch sites.  I would not even consider a 2X4 for an Ollie Hauler out west or anywhere there was snow/ice conditions.    

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Tug:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Trailer Tow, FX-4, 4X4, Rear Locker

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I wanted my 2019 Ram 1500 crew cab to have the 4x4 option which I did purchase. There are very few things that you get with it over the standard 2 wheel drive option, one was the truck did set an inch or so higher and probably some other upgraded options in the suspension, etc. One of my biggest things was the resale value of a 4x4 over the 2 wheel drive models which makes them more in demand in the used market. Talking with others that have the 2 wheel models of the same pickup model the fuel mileage is pretty much the same which for me was something I didn't feel was a deal breaker. 

trainman

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Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #489, 2019 RAM 1500, 5.7 Hemi, 4X4, Crew Cab, 5'7" bed, Towing Package, 3.92 Gears.

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On 1/26/2022 at 11:19 AM, Imelda said:

I am thinking the same thing. Diesel trucks are expensive to work on and I don't need my current tow vehicle that can put up to 19,000 lbs. to tow an Oliver2. So, I am back to mulling over the Titan XD but not sure if I need a 4WD. I plan to stay on pavement and the 4WD would add cost and more things to go wrong. Anyone got any thoughts on the 4WD option.

There is NO substitute for having the proper tools to do the job. Get the 4WD, even though you "plan" to stay on pavement. You'll thank us someday.

  • Like 3

Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher and Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie and Lucy (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

             801469912_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-I.jpg.26814499292ab76ee55b889b69ad3ef0.jpg1226003278_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-H.jpg.dc46129cb4967a7fd2531b16699e9e45.jpg

 

 

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Here's my two cents...I've owned 4 diesel P/u over the years.  All have been good trucks.  Currently, have a Ford F-350 diesel.  My last was a 2005 duramax with over 300,000 miles.  I've  hauled hvy farm equiupment with them in the past.  However, will only be hauling a jet boat and an Oliver now.  I wouldn't be without a 4X4 P/u  and if your just hauling an Oliver a diesel might be over kill.  However,  I enjoy pulling my boat out of steep and rough ramps with my current diesel TV.  I tow the boat to various lakes in my area that have grades, you can't beat the breaking with a diesel. Mine has a 10 speed transmission and turns under 1500rpm at 55.  Mileage is fine if you can keep it under 60mph.  And, a 47 gal. fuel tank makes finding a pump, not an issue.  With that said, most would do fine with a 4X4 2500 gas, IMH0.  Get what suits your needs.

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2 hours ago, MarkC said:

Here's my two cents...I've owned 4 diesel P/u over the years.  All have been good trucks.  Currently, have a Ford F-350 diesel.  My last was a 2005 duramax with over 300,000 miles.  I've  hauled hvy farm equiupment with them in the past.  However, will only be hauling a jet boat and an Oliver now.  I wouldn't be without a 4X4 P/u  and if your just hauling an Oliver a diesel might be over kill.  However,  I enjoy pulling my boat out of steep and rough ramps with my current diesel TV.  I tow the boat to various lakes in my area that have grades, you can't beat the breaking with a diesel. Mine has a 10 speed transmission and turns under 1500rpm at 55.  Mileage is fine if you can keep it under 60mph.  And, a 47 gal. fuel tank makes finding a pump, not an issue.  With that said, most would do fine with a 4X4 2500 gas, IMH0.  Get what suits your needs.

And they look bad ass too. 😬

C54C3710-86BF-48EA-BFC2-98F4C4F18535.jpeg

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Grant  2022 GMC Denali 2500 HD 2019  Elite 11😎

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