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Towing Report: 2022 Subaru Limited + 2022 Elite I


DunnYet

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Just now, DunnYet said:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this, was on a work trip first part of the week and have some seat time flying back tonight to catch up.

Seating Capacity : Total 8

Front: 2

Rear: 6

The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 600kg or 1323 lbs. 

Again this is from the Limited Trim line without the sunroof.

B1544537-71F5-4942-ACA9-D58CB3F670B1.jpeg

Ok that was strange just for grins I decided to try to attach the photo again and it threw the error message but then posted.

strange…

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New Tow Vehicle: 2023 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5L EcoBoost /w 3.55 axle and Maxtow Package "Name TBD"
Original and still available Tow Vehicle: 2022 Subaru Ascent "Blue Moose"
2022 Oliver Elite I - Hull #1030 "
Reset"
Home Base Duncanville, TX

ALARKYMSTNTXmed.jpg

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12 minutes ago, DunnYet said:

combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 600kg or 1323 lbs

That's actually pretty  awesome.  

I don't know if you've weighed your trailer at a cat scale, but our tongue weight is roughly 400 to 420 lbs. Add you, passenger, dogs. Then, whatever you want to pack in the suv... don't  overload. Leave a margin of  room, to have fun, and an enjoyable experience.  It's not fun to tow with an already overloaded vehicle.  Been there, done that.

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. DC compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.


        
 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

That's actually pretty  awesome.  

I don't know if you've weighed your trailer at a cat scale, but our tongue weight is roughly 400 to 420 lbs. Add you, passenger, dogs. Then, whatever you want to pack in the suv... don't  overload. Leave a margin of  room, to have fun, and an enjoyable experience.  It's not fun to tow with an already overloaded vehicle.  Been there, done that.

Have one of the new “Weigh Safe” balls on order should arrive in the next week. Planning to do a “test load” and drive to a nearby cat scale to get a profile weight, want to get is as realistic as possible. Of course will need to do it again on the trip to the Rally later this year.

With our HC1 + Outback we were able to stay under the Outback capacity based on a long trip weight so I’m hoping we don’t bulk up too much. We review weight on things we add to the trip load and try not to add unnecessary weight. I’m trying to keep a hypothetical future generator in the front of my mind, not sure we will add it but trying to maintain that as a buffer just in case. Going to try to get good at managing the solar first.

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New Tow Vehicle: 2023 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5L EcoBoost /w 3.55 axle and Maxtow Package "Name TBD"
Original and still available Tow Vehicle: 2022 Subaru Ascent "Blue Moose"
2022 Oliver Elite I - Hull #1030 "
Reset"
Home Base Duncanville, TX

ALARKYMSTNTXmed.jpg

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  • 6 months later...

I was planning to used my Hylander 2020 XLE to tow a well equipped Legacy I and I was told that a 5000 pound towing vehicle is not recommended for the Elite 1 since mine would end up between 4500 and 4700 pounds. 
 

The Ascent has similar specs. 
I plan to use the same brake controller. 
 

Did you go into mountains, steep hills, etc…?

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bbrault, be very careful when comparing “similar” SUVs, the Ascent has a turbo engine -it has a fairly flat torque curve at a low rpm and it does better at high altitude. Your Toyota naturally aspirated V6 is bigger, but the power is “peakier” and a lot higher in the revs. Here is the Subaru dyno chart, I could not find one for the Highlander.

1B1CA805-9AAB-42E4-8CAF-26E7C8D327E7.thumb.jpeg.0454836da7b08a42f24ebd338b8a8baf.jpeg

And one comparing the three Ford truck engines.

602DE462-7C86-440E-A834-7B11FC72C01A.thumb.jpeg.62361dc910fe18e75406fee71f9b52ce.jpeg
The last one shows why the Ecoboost is such a killer engine for towing compared to the V8 engines.

You mentioned in your first thread the new 2023 Sequoia, I think that too would be a killer TV, if you can afford one.

John Davies

Spokane WA

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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John

Thats interesting about the Subaru engine. 
I am more concerned about handling and braking than I am about climbing. 
If I need to slow down climbing with the engine in relative high rpm, I am fine with that. I am also hoping that I can get a decent amount of engine braking downhill. I would think that the bigger Highlander V6 would help here. 
 

It looks like the Elite that I am looking at would weight between 4500 - 4700 but I will not put that much load in the Highlander itself. It will be just my wife and I and a probably no more than an additional 250 pounds for a total of about 535 pounds in the TV
 

I don’t know if the 5000 pound towing rating can be added to the 1685 payload capacity. 

If so then my capacity would be 6685 and my actual total weight 5035-5235. 


I also plan to add the Andersen weight distribution system. 

Does that put me in a comfortable safe zone?
 

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Suggest you ask the folks that towed Elite II trailers with a Tacoma (much better tow vehicle overall) that were close to 100% of the rated towing capacity. I've never towed at close to 100% of rated capacity, but don't think it would be particularly comfortable or very safe.

As an aside - I towed our Elite II with a supercharged Tundra (550 hp), beefed up OME suspension and upgraded brake rotors and pads.  We encountered uncomfortable brake fade on some downhill stretches between Jasper and Banff in Canada. I used engine braking as much as possible and still want even bigger brakes now. Uphills were no problem and never taxed the cooling system (engine or transmission) at all. 

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2 hours ago, bbrault said:

I don’t know if the 5000 pound towing rating can be added to the 1685 payload capacity. 

No, towing capacity and payload capacity do not add together.  Think of it this way, PAYLOAD weight is the downward vertical load (towards the ground) on the tow vehicle, acting downward on the tow vehicle suspension.  TOWING weight is the horizontal load being pulled that puts stress on the engine, transmission & brakes to go and stop.   You could exceed the payload limit (and break the suspension on the tow vehicle) without even driving forward.  And the tongue weight of the trailer (tongue weight is the downward weight that the trailer applies to the hitch, usually about 10% of the total trailer weight) must be included in your payload number total.   And your vehicle has a tongue weight limit number as well somewhere in the vehicle manual/specs.   Adding a basket and generator to the front of the trailer as you mentioned will increase the tongue weight as well as the total trailer weight going up. 

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1 hour ago, bbrault said:

Does that put me in a comfortable safe zone?

You’re probably going to be at 100% capacity for both payload and towing.  IMO that’s marginally ok for driving a boat 20 mins to the lake or bringing home some sand for the kids. However, for towing a camper a reasonable distance I would not recommend it. I’d recommend a half ton…

Please take a picture of the sticker on your drivers side door jam, I’m almost positive it will not show a 1600 lb payload. 

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5 hours ago, bbrault said:

I don’t know if the 5000 pound towing rating can be added to the 1685 payload capacity. 

As noted by Frank C, no, you can't add payload and towing capacity.

I like to think of towing and payload capacity the way car manufacturers do. 

Rated towing capacity presumes there is nothing in the tow vehicle except a 150 lb. driver.  This enables car companies to advertise the highest possible numbers.   In the real world, few folks tow a trailer with nothing but a 150 lb. driver.

Payload capacity makes the same assumption:  a 150 lb. driver, nothing else.  No passengers, no cargo.  And, when towing, the tongue weight (usually about 10% of a properly-loaded trailer) must be included in payload calculations.  So for me, the critical limitation is payload, not towing capacity.

5 hours ago, bbrault said:

but I will not put that much load in the Highlander itself.

Given that about 10% of the weight in a properly-loaded trailer is tongue weight, if your goal is to stay within your tow vehicle's limited payload capacity, you are better off putting more of your gear weight in the trailer, so long as you don't exceed the tongue weight capacity of your tow vehicle.  That way, only 10% of it "counts" against your payload capacity.

For example, if your actual tow vehicle payload capacity is 1200 lbs. and your properly-loaded trailer weighs 4500 lbs. (so tongue weight is 450 lbs.), you have 750 lbs. of remaining safe payload capacity.  With your 115-lb. wife, you are down to 635 lbs.  If you weigh more than 150 lbs., you must also deduct the difference between your actual, fully-clothed weight and 150 lbs. from your payload number.  If you use an Andersen weight distribution hitch (and you should with a Highlander towing a Legacy Elite), subtract another 60 lbs.  The residual determines the weight of additional gear you can safely carry in the tow vehicle.

I, too, will be surprised if your Highlander actually has 1600 lbs. of payload capacity.  I expect it may be closer to 1200 lbs., like my hypothetical above.  I second the recommendation above that you post a photo of the sticker on the driver's side of your Highlander.  Only with that information can a sensible calculation be done.

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Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

ARCOIDNMOKORTNTXUTsm.jpg

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On 3/8/2022 at 9:00 AM, ChrisMI said:

I’m not sure why I’m always so curious about payload.  Same thing with useful load…if someone lists their plane for sale I could care less what color it is.  I want to know what it’ll haul!

Because it really is just as, if not more important than, the towing capacity. From both a legal and a safety standpoint. I guess that's why I've gone through four different tow vehicles for the Outlaw Oliver. I've finally gotten to a point where I don't have to worry about capability or legality.

 

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Steve, Tali and our dog Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie, Lucy and Reacher (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

             801469912_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-I.jpg.26814499292ab76ee55b889b69ad3ef0.jpg1226003278_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-H.jpg.dc46129cb4967a7fd2531b16699e9e45.jpg

 

 

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5 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Payload capacity makes the same assumption:  a 150 lb. driver, nothing else.

That's a new one on me.. I was always told that payload is the difference between GVW Gross Vehicle Weight and Curb Weight. Curb weight including fuel, fluids, and all options on the truck but no passengers or added loads.

2010 Elite II, Hull #45.  2014 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD 5.7 with tow package.

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2 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

Seems consistent to me.  A driver is not a  passenger.

The driver is not included in payload capacity either.

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2010 Elite II, Hull #45.  2014 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD 5.7 with tow package.

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9 minutes ago, CRM said:

The driver is not included in payload capacity either.

So, when calculating payload, the driver's weight, whatever it is, must also be added to passenger and cargo weight to determine a total?  Can you provide a citation for this?

 

Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

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Here's a copy of the operator's manual for our 2022 Tundra, I highlighted the model code for our Tundra. When I see occupants, feel like I should add driver's weight like the passenger's weights. 

With 1400 pound load capacity (occupants + luggage), subtract 480 pound LE2 tongue weight, in our case 325 pounds for two passengers leaving 595 pounds for additional gear. Using the CAT scale will not give occupants + luggage weight, but here's my loaded ready to camp CAT scale result with 75 pounds of additional gear to place in the back seat area.

Tundra%20Load%20Capacity-X2.jpg

2022%20Tundra%202015%20Oliver%20Weights%

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Bill #75 LE2

 

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"Occupants" sure seems like it must include a driver as well as passengers.  I stand corrected. 

So, the weight of all occupants must be added to cargo weight, and tongue weight, when calculating whether payload capacity has been exceeded.

Good to know.

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Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

ARCOIDNMOKORTNTXUTsm.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

"Occupants" sure seems like it must include a driver as well as passengers.  I stand corrected. 

So, the weight of all occupants must be added to cargo weight, and tongue weight, when calculating whether payload capacity has been exceeded.

Good to know.

It also includes any dealer installed options. They're supposed to update the plate on your vehicle to reflect the added weight but this doesn't always happen.

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2010 Elite II, Hull #45.  2014 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD 5.7 with tow package.

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2 minutes ago, CRM said:

The driver is not included in payload capacity either.

That is correct. Payload includes all occupants (people, dogs, spirits, aliens, etc), any additions to the vehicle since it was manufactured (camper top, bed slide, Andersen hitch, helper springs, all camping gear, cell phone chargers, GPS, boxes of Kleenex, snacks, luggage, etc). If it was not in or on the vehicle when it was sitting on the car lot it is considered cargo.

However, payload does not include the weight of any of the fluids that are necessary for the operation of the vehicle (fuel, oil, antifreeze solution, transmission fluid, etc)

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Steve, Tali and our dog Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie, Lucy and Reacher (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

             801469912_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-I.jpg.26814499292ab76ee55b889b69ad3ef0.jpg1226003278_StatesVisitedTaliandSteve08-23-2021-H.jpg.dc46129cb4967a7fd2531b16699e9e45.jpg

 

 

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One reason I admire the Power Wagon, despite its remarkably low payload, is that the weight of factory installed 12K winch, skid plates, locking front sway bar, rocker guards, and extra “off roady” gear is already factored in. On a standard truck, all those added factory or aftermarket parts take away from the original base (highest) figure, that “up to xxxx pounds” that manufacturers love so much.

My last Series 80 Lexus had around 500 pounds of that extra “expedition” stuff. I have been trying very hard not to do it to my 200, that is a bottomless hole that is easy to get lost in….

John Davies

Spokane WA

SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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