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Continuing saga of our Trojan AGM batteries on our 2019 LEII


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This is an update containing some new information about the AGM battery issues that we experienced this fall.  Most of the background is in a T105 post by another Oliver owner.  It is my host that an admin may be able to advise on how I might migrate some of the info contained into this new entry, but until then, I will briefly summarize concentrating on the new information.  This fall we were boondocking in Maine and were using the furnace overnight, we had a low battery alarm that surprised us, but we had notice the furnace was cycling a bit more than we had experienced on the previous nights.  Overnight temps weren't approaching freezing and we only set the temp to 58 overnight so we really didn't understand why it was cycling so much.  When we had the alarm, the batteries were below 12V.  We did some testing in our driveway when we returned from camping on several cold nights after insuring the batteries were completely charged by the solar panels.  After some alarming test voltages on both strings of batteries that showed the first 6V battery in each string had very low voltage while just running the furnace, cell booster, and Wi-Fi extender for several hours after the sun had set.  It was suggested that we have the batteries tested and I took the two suspect batteries, one was 3 years old and the other 2 years old, to Batteries-Plus for a load test after both batteries had been charged and sat for a day and both passed.  I reinstalled all the batteries again and monitored for a few weeks during the warm fall weather with the intent of testing under colder temperatures.  I completed my first major overnight test attempt with temperatures in the 20's last night.  I had disconnected the shore power yesterday morning before the solar kicked in and it was a very sunny day so I ran the furnace, cell booster and Wi-Fi extender for the duration.  The solar stopped charging at about 2pm, but everything else continued to use about 11Ah during the latter part of the day into the early evening.  I went to bed in the LEII at about 10pm EST.  We were at 12.7V on both strings when I went to bed and at 12.4V when the furnace and blower were cycling.  When I woke up at 12AM, I discovered the voltage at 11.4V when the furnace blower was on and decided to shut off the furnace and move back to the house.  The voltage was 12.3V when the furnace was shutdown.  When I got up this morning at 6AM well before the sun has risen and started charging the batteries the battery voltage was at 12.7V.  I was flabbergasted.  I suspected that it would be about the same voltage.  My Victron SmartShunt confirmed that we were at 94 percent SOC and had a very modest .37 amp parasitic draw.  I am completely baffled by all this and still suspect that we have a battery issue or a furnace issue due to excessive cycling.  We had a 34Ah draw down at 6am this AM since the last complete charge.

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David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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My wife also is suggesting that I take the other two batteries in and have them load tested.  I also want to check the PD Converter for proper operation.  I intend to disconnect the Zamp Solar Charge Controller from the batteries.  I will then run the furnace to draw down the batteries sufficiently and then turn on the shore power breaker to confirm that the PD Converter will charge the batteries. 

David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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I disconnected our Zamp Solar Charger from the batteries this AM after verifying that all the batteries were fully charged.  I did this by removing the red wire that runs from the Zamp to the positive lug on the front battery where both the Trailer wire and Zamp wire are connected.  The Zamp showed the B01 once I had disconnected the correct wire.  The Zamp Charge Controller continues to run because it is powered by the solar panels.  I then set the furnace to on and monitored power usage and battery voltages while it achieved the temperature set point, 58 degrees F.  I also had my WiFiranger on the entire time.  After about 1 hour and 20 minutes, the furnace stopped.  I noted that the batteries were at 12.7V.  I then turned on my shore power breaker.  I checked to see if it was charging and it was not.  Also, the Dometic A/C fan was running.  I looked at the Progressive panel and found a 15amp breaker off.  It didn't appear to be tripped.  I turned it on and immediately had the Progressive Converter charging the batteries.  Now I am wondering why the furnace which was running on Propane suddenly was using the Dometic A/C.  I know the fan is not on Auto, it is on High and the thermostat is definitely on furnace and not heat strip. 

David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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  • 2 weeks later...

So after doing more research while trying to understand the condition of our AGM batteries I decided to follow the advice that was posted on some sites.  I decided to put a load of approximately 1.5 amps on my batteries after insuring the 4 AGM batteries were completely charged.  I picked last night to start the test knowing that we would be getting rain for the entire day today and no solar gain.  So far we are at a 36Ah draw down heading into the overnight.  I will monitor before calling it a night and then early tomorrow morning if the batteries are still viable, I will record the overnight Ah draw and then start the furnace to see the impact of 4.5Ah draw while achieving the target temperature in the Oliver.  More to come in AM.

David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well not having any better ideas we have decided to replace our batteries.  I am thinking about 4-6V AGM batteries from VMAX.  They have a battery made in Vietnam that will that rated at 235Ah.  As anyone any feedback on these AGM batteries or an alternative that would give us the same capacity.  We would like to make our decisions soon as we would like to make our next trip early in the new year.

David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well we pulled the trigger on purchasing 4 new AGM 6V 235Ah batteries from the distributor in Michigan.  They will be here on Thursday.  I have removed the old Trojans in preparation for the install.  I disconnected from shore power and tripped the 60amp circuit breaker isolating the LEII from the batteries to allow their removal.  I did decide to turn off the circuit breaker for the Progressive converter to eliminate any potential issues on disconnected power cables in the battery box and tray and afterwards realized that without batteries and the circuit breaker shut off and the shore power turned on, I realized I won't have any power on the 12V bus in the TT so no lights.

David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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We received our VMAX batteries today.  They are a tight fit in our 2019 LEII battery tray so I will need to use a different tie down strap.  The metal hook for the tray is just a might too wide.  I may go with an alternative looped strap instead or modify the existing strap.  I also will have to order 2 new 4/0 gauge battery cables to allow sufficient bend of the cable because the M8 post and normal post are closer together so it is hard to fit the adapter Oliver used on the post far enough down on the post to insure it will stay pit.  I only have this issue on the positive sides of the parallel connection but it is recommended that the interconnect always be the same gauge and length.  After I finish the install I will attach a picture of the final install.  

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David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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  • 2 weeks later...

I completed the installation of my new VMAX   AGM batteries.  There are 4 - 6V 237Ah batteries.  Due to the very slightly dimension difference I eliminated the straps that clipped on the battery tray and use two heavy Nite EZ cargo straps that each hold down 2 batteries.   After testing I feel confident we are back to normal when we don’t have shore power overnight during the heating season.  I drew the batteries down almost 70Ah and still had a 93 SOC.  FA81FDD3-F1AE-4FA7-B601-7AE8B9A4E54B.thumb.jpeg.47803124de974372ad350ff89e901075.jpeg647868FF-FADB-41DF-8B13-32AB6E7C5A71.thumb.jpeg.17c805834e3431f6d74a38592be07d17.jpeg

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David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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David & Paula - 

Thanks for posting your on-going story. And, certainly glad to hear that you are back up and running.  Hope that this takes care of all your issues.

With my 2016 that has its original T-105's I know that I'm living on borrowed time.  Please keep us advised of how these batteries perform for you since I'm afraid that I'll be in the market soon and these look like they are worth considering.

Bill

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2023 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing, Max Payload, 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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41 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

With my 2016 that has its original T-105's I know that I'm living on borrowed time.

Bill, it's quite impressive that you are still running on the T105s!  We replaced our 2018s in the spring after many electrical issues.  I waited for the Battleborns to go on sale and yes, big invesment up front, and yes, the peace of mind about no more need for constant battery monitoring is worth every dime to me.  Now I monitor our batteries more out of curiosity about our actual AH usage than a need to make sure we're staying above the AGM threshold.

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2018 LE2 #333  "the Otter"

2015 Silverado 2500HD

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We went with Battleborn years ago.  Their internal management systems make them worry free.  Best investment we've ever made in our RVs!

You couldn't pay me to go back to AGMs.  BBs are warrantied for 8 years.  Two BBs equals more power output than contained in 4 AGMs.

Charlie.

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ALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAHIIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA

Arizona | 2020 Oliver Elite II Twin bed Hull #617 | 2021 Ram 1500 e-Hemi 4x4

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/4/2023 at 11:46 AM, GraniteStaters said:

 

Dave:

I was looking on line at your brand of batteries. There are a lot of models. Which one did you buy?

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2018 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #354 

2024 RAM 1500, 4 x 4; Gas. 5.7L V8 Hemi MDS VVT Torque; 3.21 rear axle ratio

Maine 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought I responded to this query, so I apologize for the delay.  We bought the VMAX XTR-235AH marine batteries and they did fit in our 2019 LEII battery tray but required me to strap the long way on the battery tray as indicated in our posted pictures.  I purchased directly from the VMAX distributor in Michigan and order on Monday or Tuesday and received the batteries on Thursday or Friday of the same week.  I did take the time to insure they were fully charged before installing including letting them sit for 24 hours.  The batteries have only gotten stronger since the install.  I did do a test early on to insure that I wouldn't have a recurrence of the issue running the furnace for several days after a full charge.  They worked well.  I am also going to try to keep the SOC above 80 percent to make sure we get the number of cycles expected.  This important for AGM or VRLA deep cycle batteries.

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David Caswell and Paula Saltmarsh


Hull 509 "The Swallow"

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  • 8 months later...

Hello David, I'm sorry I'm just seeing this now and wasn't involved while you still had your old batteries.  I had four T-105's in my sailboat for years.  I suspect premature cell failure  and usually it's on a single cell.  That's the beauty of using 6V (3-cell) instead of 12V (6-cell), you can better pinpoint the problem cell and only need to replace one of four batteries.  I would have told you to do what I eventually did and was very surprised by:  Run some kind of decent load like 10-20 amps, then go into the battery compartment and measure each individual battery's voltage AT THE TERMINALS, not the cable clamp/connector.  The loaded batteries should show around 6.1, 6.2 Volts.  I was amazed when one of mine was like 5.3 Volts, all the others ok.  And I bet even within that battery it's only one of the three cells that's bad, but our resolution is 3 cells.  And replacing with a single new T-105 everything was like new.

The reason you need to measure at the terminals themselves is the other likely problem would have been a high resistance connection;  if you measure two batteries 6.2V and 6.2V then when you measure across all the wiring you better see 12.4V.  If not it's then easy to make a few more measurements to narrow down where the bad connection = voltage drop is.

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Dean & Lori in Maine

2023 Elite II #1359 2019 Ford Ranger (4 cylinder(!) 28mpg when not towing)

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/4/2023 at 6:46 AM, GraniteStaters said:

I eliminated the straps that clipped on the battery tray and use two heavy Nite EZ cargo straps that each hold down 2 batteries.

David:

Nice install!  I may get a couple of your straps for my battery compartment.  Two thoughts:

To keep the batteries in place requires a significant amount of tension.  Hence your heavy duty straps. 

When in motion, energy pulses from the suspension system imparts to the frame, and then to the metal plate that supports the battery bay.  Fortunately with EZ Flex and four shocks, these pulses are significantly reduced... but not eliminated.  The result is varying tension of the straps.  Higher pressure when the pulses are up, and lower when they are down.  In essence your cables will be acting like super strong springs between the straps and the AGM's.  That over time, the spring movement (Cables) will impact the crimped connections and possibly effectiveness of the system itself.

In short, I recommend running the straps under the battery cables.  Thus forces of the straps on the batteries will not have nearly as much on the cables and connections. 

Secondly, if you do not already have a Master Battery Switch, I would certainly suggest your getting one.  BlueSeas 350 amp is a great one that many of us use.

GJ

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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