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Kitchen Sink - No Hot Water following Freezing Night (LE I)


DunnYet

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Tagging this as LE I as I am not sure how similar the LE I and LE II kitchen units are. Would appreciate all thoughts and any references to a prior post if I missed it in my search this morning.

LE I Hull 1030 "Reset" 2022 Vintage

Summary

Following temps in the low 20 F in the factory campground there is no water coming out of the hot side of the kitchen faucet. It was working when we went to bed the night before. Hot water (Truma) was left on overnight at full power due to the projected overnight temps. Bath sink hot side is working fine - flow and temp of the water are normal. Kitchen sink cold side is working fine with normal flow. Nothing comes out when you switch to full hot. Furnace was run all night at 66 F. All other interior systems appear normal. We are currently running on internal fresh water tank, no city water connection due to temps. Pump function appears normal, no starts when we are not using water that would indicate a leak currently.

Supposition

Assuming that the hot water has a "T" somewhere in the system and the line froze between the "T" and the Kitchen Sink. Should this be possible in an Oliver with the interior heat on? Or is this a red herring caused by me jumping to conclusions from the amount of frost on the exterior wall. 🙂

Question

Has anyone else seen this occur? What other things should I check? What am I overlooking that makes this a simple fix?

New Tow Vehicle: 2023 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5L EcoBoost /w 3.55 axle and Maxtow Package "Name TBD"
Original and still available Tow Vehicle: 2022 Subaru Ascent "Blue Moose"
2022 Oliver Elite I - Hull #1030 "
Reset"
Home Base Duncanville, TX

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Strange - 

After reading the circumstances, my first thought wasn't a frozen pipe - but - a clogged pipe from something line debris in the line.  However, usually these types of clogs only slow the flow - not stop it.  

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2023 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing, Max Payload, 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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Are you are still near the factory? They could check it out and tell you where the offending area is so you can modify your procedure in the future. 

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2018 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #354 

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4 minutes ago, dewdev said:

Are you are still near the factory?

I believe that they said they are camped in the Oliver campground.  Unfortunately - today is Saturday.

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My guess would be something blocking the flow, especially since the hot water in the bath works.  It doesn’t sound like anything froze, you did everything we would have done as far as heat goes.  Mike

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Texas Hill Country | 2016 Elite II #135 | 2020 Ram 2500 6.7L

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I would start inspecting the water system using the following diagram.  Look for damaged hot water supply lines such as leaks or kinks.  Inspect the handle of the faucet for correct operation.

Mossey

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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL  
2017 LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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First - thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas. Here is an update, sorry for the delay but we were traveling from Hohenwald to Willow Beach COE near Little Rock AR today and I did not want to type a detailed update on my phone.

To update - I had left the kitchen sink hot water faucet in the "on" position, hoping that the sun would warm the curb side of the trailer, which fortunately in factory campsite five faces the sun as it rises. I started getting a slow drip, then a faster drip, then a small stream. Within the space of about 90 seconds from that first drip I had full flow on the hot side and the water quickly heated to normal hot water temps.

Using the diagram above that Mossey posted, that behavior seems to strongly support a frozen section of line "D" - between the tee that goes on to the bath sink and the kitchen faucet. After I had full flow I used the "pump test" to see if the line appeared to be losing pressure - turned off everything and waited for the pump to start with no water use - and I am hopeful that we escaped without a split line in this incident.

Now the question is ... "Why?"

I need to see why I am not getting enough warm air in the space between the kitchen cabinets and the hull - or does that line run between the hulls? I don't know - if an LE I owner has dug into the sink guts and has advice I would appreciate any guidance. I am hoping to have time next weekend after we are back in our Dallas home base to do some intensive mapping of the lines under the curb side seats and behind the drawers.

I also will not rest easy till I have eyeballed line "D" and the fittings on each end and make sure that there is no residual damage. Reading the other threads on the forum about hidden leaks behind the sink area has me twitching at every unidentified noise this evening, listening to see if it's a leak. 🙂

Again - thanks to everyone who jumped in on this thread and gave ideas and advice. As TopGun2 pointed out - the factory campground is not that helpful a place on a Saturday (LOL). That's the major lesson learned - never do a Thursday / Friday service visit - always make sure that there are people at the mothership when you are there!

 

 

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New Tow Vehicle: 2023 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5L EcoBoost /w 3.55 axle and Maxtow Package "Name TBD"
Original and still available Tow Vehicle: 2022 Subaru Ascent "Blue Moose"
2022 Oliver Elite I - Hull #1030 "
Reset"
Home Base Duncanville, TX

ALARKYMSTNTXmed.jpg

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1 hour ago, DunnYet said:

I am hopeful that we escaped without a split line in this incident.

Given your experience, I would recommend setting the furnace thermostat a few degrees higher, which should allow more warm air to get to that sensitive area.

I also recommend doing what is sometimes done in vacation homes in cold climates:  leave the kitchen faucet dripping a bit over night to help prevent freeze blockage when ambient temps drop below freezing.

Also, I cannot tell if you have the Truma water heater.  If so, set it to Comfort rather than Eco mode.  That will keep the water in the system warmer.

Please report if you try any of these methods, and if so, what works.

 

Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

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8 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Given your experience, I would recommend setting the furnace thermostat a few degrees higher, which should allow more warm air to get to that sensitive area.

I also recommend doing what is sometimes done in vacation homes in cold climates:  leave the kitchen faucet dripping a bit over night to help prevent freeze blockage when ambient temps drop below freezing.

Also, I cannot tell if you have the Truma water heater.  If so, set it to Comfort rather than Eco mode.  That will keep the water in the system warmer.

Please report if you try any of these methods, and if so, what works.

I definitely plan to try the ‘drip the faucet” idea next time we are in this type of temps. Will update as to results.

As for the Truma, yes - we do have the Aquago and since we had plenty of propane I left it on Comfort for the night hoping that the water would heat “forward” of the tank. Unfortunately not enough into that line “D” area it seems. I’m guessing that was because of no water movement.

Now to find the perfect balance of keeping the systems warm and not cooking the occupants inside 🙂

 

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New Tow Vehicle: 2023 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5L EcoBoost /w 3.55 axle and Maxtow Package "Name TBD"
Original and still available Tow Vehicle: 2022 Subaru Ascent "Blue Moose"
2022 Oliver Elite I - Hull #1030 "
Reset"
Home Base Duncanville, TX

ALARKYMSTNTXmed.jpg

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It is possible that some water lines are too close to the hull wall, if actually touching, that will cause problems. You can insulate them using 1/2” foam tubes, but a better solution is to add some 1” pink foam board (Dow Corning R5), if there is room.

John Davies

Spokane WA

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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11 minutes ago, DunnYet said:

Using the diagram above that Mossey posted, that behavior seems to strongly support a frozen section of line "D" - between the tee that goes on to the bath sink and the kitchen faucet. After I had full flow I used the "pump test" to see if the line appeared to be losing pressure - turned off everything and waited for the pump to start with no water use - and I am hopeful that we escaped without a split line in this incident.

Now the question is ... "Why?"I

If a water line is routed hard against the sidewall, it will get cold, it is simple physics. You can insulate any suspect areas with the 1/2” round foam sleeve, or if there us room, you can add some R5 rigid foam board, the Dow Corning pink stuff. It can be secured with aluminum tape, just be sure to leave a few gaps at the bottom edge for any moisture to escape.

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SOLD 07/23 "Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT.

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I don't know about the newer LE's... but our late 2018 LE does not heat the lower mechanical areas as well as the LE II.

The furnace has only 2 outlets; one directly through the forward bulkhead into the bathroom and the other on the aisle side of the forward dinette seat (right next to the bathroom door). There is no ducting under the floor or in the mechanical spaces to move heat into the rear under-floor spaces where the water pump, water heater and outside shower plumbing reside.

On my list of things to do... is to create a couple of vents, one on each side of the aisle under the rear dinette, and mount a ~3" computer fan in each opening, pulling ( warmer air in the spring & fall / cooler air in the summer ) from the aisle and forcing it into those 2 rear mechanical spaces. There is precious little room under the floor in the LE to run additional flex ducting.

IMHO the LE is more of a 3-season camper than a year-round camper, at least as regards the water system. With the water system winterized (and thus unusable) it should be possible to camp year-round. So far we have camped down to 19 degrees F (while winterized) a couple of times, and around 28-30 degrees F overnight (not winterized), warming to above freezing during the day, and both of those scenarios worked out fine.

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Tom & Holly

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite I #409 - 2017 Silverado 1500, 5.3L Gas, 4x4 Z71, Dbl Cab, Std Bed

 

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