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Girard 750 Awning problems


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We have a 2021 LE2 equipped with the Girard 750. It has developed a problem which I can't solve.  It has quit deploying properly. The motor runs and it will move out of the cassette about 1-2 inches and although the motor continues, the awning stops. I can manually pull it out while my wife operates the controls.  Once it is about 50-60% of the way out, it will then work properly on it's own.  It retracts fine with no issue.

After several conversations with Oliver and a couple with the Girard factory rep it is my understanding the springs inside the arms provide all the "push" to deploy the awning and all the motor is doing is unspooling the fabric. I have had both end caps off the awning and nothing is visible that would cause the problem. I thought perhaps something was causing the springs to bind inside the arms so have used an air nozzle to blast compressed air through the arm channels to clear any obstructions.  Dust and a couple of dead insects were all that came out. At this point a I've struck out with Oliver, Girard and a couple of local RV service departments. None seem to have ever heard of this problem and can offer no further suggestions other than "bring it in".

Help!

 

2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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James some question for understanding: 

  • When you look at the rolled up canopy, is it cleanly stacked or is it "barber poling".  (I.E. not cleanly stacked by walking up/down the roller as it retracts?)
  • When rolled up, is the canopy evenly rolled on the roll?  I.E. the roller is longer than the width of the canopy.  There should be some unused roller space as a result and it should be equally split on each end of the roller.
  • Do you have a way to check the amp draw and voltage at the Motor?  How does this compare with the O&M specifications?
  • About how many times have you used the canopy?
  • Did it work well each of those times?
  • Are each of the arm bolts secure and not slipping?  One end will have adjustment and if that bolt on one of the arms is slipping, it could prevent the canopy from keeping "Square" and bind the effort to extend.  This would not be a problem on retract though.

GJ

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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All good questions and I will be able to answer tomorrow. Thanks Geronimo John.

2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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I have the CareFree unit and as others have previously stated "It for sure isn't".  That awning is THE most time intensive frustrating bugger I have worked  on Ollie.  I hope that your Girard 750 is much less so.  Three cautions:

  1. Awning arms have tremendous torque and if not very securely roped down when doing service can get away from you in an instant.  If it does, it will "Break it's back".  I made this mistake and have one new arm. 
  2. Be sure to read the owners manual and hopefully Girard has videos as well.  I watched all the  Carefree video's except one.  See Item 1 above.  
  3. All awnings stretch.  So don't lower the back corner to cause rain to avoid falling off the awning near the entry door.  Over a couple of seasons It will stretch the fabric and then it will not roll up square on the tube.  When that happens you'll have a problem rolling up the tarp.  I found out that this is a great way to have an opportunity to buy a new awning tarp.  And also to learn about Item 2 and then Item 1 above.  

Needless to say, I really dislike working on my awning!  As John D. says "Lots of bad words".........

GJ

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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OK, here are some answers to your questions GJ. They are in no particular order.

We bought this trailer used in January.  The awning worked properly when I was inspecting the trailer before the purchase. It worked properly once I got it home, primarily to demo it to my wife and friends. My trailer is stored inside and sat for a few days prior to my next attempt revealed the problem.  I do not know how many times it had been used previously.

I have not tested the current draw on the motor since I was told by the Girard rep that if it was retracting properly the motor should be fine. He is also the one who told me the motor was just unspooling the awning during deployment thus very little load on the motor.

I do not detect that the mounting bolts on the arms are now loose. There are no scratch marks or other evidence that they have ever slid on the mounting track.

There is some slight "barber poling" when the awning is retracted. If looking at the spool, the barber pole spiral is from right to left and is about 1.25" in length. Having said that, there is still over an inch of space on the other end of the roller so there doesn't appear to be any binding.

Girard does have a couple videos online about changing the arms and they make it pretty clear that there is tremendous tension on the springs.  They ship their new arms with multiple layers of shrink-wrap holding them together.  Unfortunately, the manual doesn't cover my issue in the trouble shooting section.

Thanks for your suggestions and I'd appreciate any other thoughts.

James

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2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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James:

Ok, now down a notch in the test and eval:

I assume your arms are "spring arms", and not gas strut driven arms.  Please verify.

Would be a good idea to inspect the "elbow" of each arm and check for any cracks that may reflect their having been broken.

Does the tarp open symmetrically? Possible weak spring arm.

Does it stop opening at the same place each time (Possible gear jamb at the motor.)

Does your awning have a manual crank?  If so, can you crank it open manually?  Is it a smooth operation or does it bind in the process?  If so where?  Opening with a crank tends to be easier (Has spring assist and gravity) than closing against gravity and the springs as well.

If you were to incrementally open the awning, and push on the arms, do all three of them feel as if they have the same tension on the tarp?  Try again at various stages of opening.  Focus before and after where it tends to bind up.  If no, likely one of the arms has failed or partially failed.

The next check has some risk and you should have two beefy helpers.  Open the awning 100% fully and carefully mark where each arm bolts are attached to the leading edge.  Open, the arms should have most of their spring tension released.  Place ladders under the leading edge to support the awning leading edge.  Tie them WELL to the awning leading edge for security and support.  Cautiously remove one arm bolt at the leading edge and verify you can handle any remaining spring tension. If yes, untie the arm, and  manually check the spring tension increases more or less lineally as you push it in the closing direction.  You will be pushing directly towards the arm upper attachment point.  You only need to push it part way to know if the spring closer is operating smoothly and with increasing tension.  As you move towards the trailer, the spring arm resistance will increase greatly.  Don't even try to go further than you can handle those increasing forces.  The elbow will be closing and the action should be smooth.  If so, all is good.  Reattach the arm to the leading edge as marked.  Tighten its bole and repeat for other two arms.  This will identify if one of your arms is defective.  

If the above is inconclusive, then likely you have a motor/gear top spool issue and I do not recommend you doing further testing yourself.  Time to get it to Girard experienced technician.

I hope this helps.  Hopefully other owners with this awing have additional ideas or any concerns about the above.

If the above does not id the problem, I'm at a loss as well.

GJ

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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My awning uses three spring arms.

I haven't specifically inspected the elbows but have been up close and personal with them as I attempted to blow out any debris which could have gotten inside the arm enclosures. I didn't notice anything unusual but will inspect more closely.

As best as I can tell, the tarp opens symmetrically.  Keep in mind, the first half of the opening is accomplished by me pulling the tarp out while the motor is unspooling it. Somewhere in the 50-60% range, it will operate on it's own and it continues until the knees lock out at full extension. It looks symmetrical at that point. At no point of this process does it look uneven.

It stops opening at roughly the same place which is only an inch or two out. It clears the cassette enough for me to get my fingers in and grasp it to pull it out. There is no audible difference in the motor sound at that point.

There is a manual crank which the owners manual says is for emergency retraction in case of motor failure.  I don't know if it can be cranked out but will try it tomorrow as well as pushing in on the arms at various intervals to get a sense of different tension.  At no interval is there any obvious difference in the tarp tension. It stays pretty even and taut.

As to the next step, I will probably bow out and make an appointment with a Girard dealer if the above actions don't turn up the culprit.

I really appreciate your time and thoughts on this. Either way I will report back and let you know what happens.

James

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2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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James:

I think that the  important point, that others here have indicated is how the awning rolls up (retracts).

1. When retracting does the canopy coil up onto itself and not spool to the left or right?

2. Does it retract ok using the motor?

If the canopy is not coiling up onto itself then the canopy needs to be manually slide to the left or right (when fully opened) so it will coil up onto itself.

Good luck. This can be a pain in the b..t

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2018 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #354 

2024 RAM 1500, 4 x 4; Gas. 5.7L V8 Hemi MDS VVT Torque; 3.21 rear axle ratio

Maine 

 

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4 hours ago, dewdev said:

If the canopy is not coiling up onto itself then the canopy needs to be manually slide to the left or right (when fully opened) so it will coil up onto itself.

Excellent comment.... but only up to the point of running out of roller.

The root cause of "barber polling" is likely that the canopy has been stretched and is no longer a rectangle of the size it once was.  This can easily happen over it's lifetime.  Or it can be the direct result of owner error in adverse weather conditions such as high winds and/or heavy rain.  Mine appears to have been caused by my lowering the outboard rear end support brace to the ground for the purpose of forcing rain to drain near the rear (Away from the door area).  Was a great idea...up to the point that it wasn't.

When it stretched they generally become a parallelogram.  The amount of "barber poling" that a given set-up can tolerate is dependent upon how much extra top roller space you have.  If your canopy is say 14 feet wide and your top roller shaft is two inches longer, then you can adjust the canopy left or right to allow for up to 2" of wonky roll-up.  This is what my OEM Carefree (SIC) OTT canopy had.  Problem was that I needed three more inches of top roller shaft....

For this reason, when ordering replacement canopies, I recommend buying one at least several inches narrower than the OEM canopy  My new one has four inches of such space.  With that space, it is possible to do as you suggested several times and not have to replace the canopy.  Which I hope to make a moot issue by not being creative in my canopy drainage plan.....   

Cost Saving Rule of Thumb:  Don't let water pond on your canopy.  Crank it in and lower the leading edge so it drains well if rain is in the forecast.  

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

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Ok boys and girls, here is what I've learned today.

The spring arms have no visible damage to the knee joints or the joints where they attach to the trailer or leading edge.  There is no evidence of the attachment points now or ever having been loose. 

When manually retracting the tarp, it moves in easily. I used a 1/2" ratchet to do the work. I assume there is a mechanical safety or something which prevents manually rolling it out.  There is an immediate hard stop when attempting to do so. While manually cranking the tarp in, I noticed while the tarp was in the outward most 40-50% of its range the spring arm tension would slightly push the tarp out while I was free wheeling my ratchet. Once it was in the last 50% of the inward journey, it was noticeably tight.

I deployed and retracted the tarp 5 times and it became noticeably tighter on each successive cycle.  Something is binding in the center area of the roller.  I do not see any way to remove the cover allowing visible or physical access to the roller area.  There has to be a way, I just haven't determined what it is.

2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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As it turns out, the cassette is all one piece and the top can not be removed.  Motor, roller or tarp replacement all comes out the end. It would seem this is getting out of my realm of capabilities and desires :).

2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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Thanks to a member of the forum, I was put in touch with some folks at the Red Bay, Alabama Girard plant. Once I explained my problem, they knew exactly what the problem was. Fortunately it was a 5 minute fix!

The motor/spool assembly is held in the cassette by three phillps head screws on each end. They are visible once the end caps are removed. He said the roller assembly fits inside the cassette with very little clearance. Sometimes the screws are tightened enough to slightly torque the assembly causing it to rub inside the cassette.  The solution is to loosen the screws by about one turn. I tried this and it worked immediately.  His suggestion was to leave the screws in that position with no worries of them loosening further.

He also confirmed that the spring arms do all the work when extending the awning. All the motor does is spool out the tarp.

Thanks again to Geronimo John and dewdev for their responses.  I now know more than I ever wanted to know about the operation of the Girard 750!

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2021 LE2 Hull # 693  Twin Bed plan with 340 solar, Zamp controlled and 3-100ah Battleborn batteries.  2023 Silverado 1500 up front.

James & Tennie

Central North Carolina

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1 hour ago, justjames said:

I now know more than I ever wanted to know about the operation of the Girard 750!

AND - thanks to your posting, the rest of us now know a bit more about these awnings.

Bill 

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2023 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing, Max Payload, 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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I noticed that the awning on our 2014 Elite II sometimes takes a while to get it fully retracted. On closer inspection, I’ve discovered that Tali’s arm was giving out at about half way and she was having to rest a while before finishing winding it completely in.  Glad it wasn’t something more serious. 

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Steve, Tali and our dog Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie, Lucy and Reacher (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

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2 hours ago, Nan said:

You are killing me Steve!!

Don't encourage him, Nan - I'm guessing that Steve is already engineering a treadmill for Reacher so that Tali will no longer have to suffer in the mid-day sun.🐕

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2023 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing, Max Payload, 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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