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"PLAYING WELL TOGETHER": Multiple Charging Systems To Simultaneously Charge Lithiums


Geronimo John

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It was just a few years ago that a couple of sage wise Oliver owners dipped their toes into the Lithium world.  Since then, following their foot steps, now many of us have DYIed the conversion to Lithium.  Fortunately many of us RoF's (Retired Ole Farts) are now sporting the "Lithium Grin" and have survived the conversion process mostly intact.   Those of us in the Boomer Generation that grew up with slide rules as our favorite calculating device, often were able to figure out the conversion process.  Having mechanical and electrical power wiring skills made it possible.  But, like myself, we lack the fundamental understanding of how the underlying technologies play or don't play together well. 

I hope that this thread can be used to help owners better understand how THEIR systems can, or should not "Play Well Together".   So I ask forgiveness of the super tech savvy younger owners as what may happen is a series of "How will my system Play Together" questions.   Likely mine, and a bunch more down the line, will remind you of the dumb questions we see their customers asking at the bottom of Amazon.com products..... 

This starter post is for Hull 342, our "Ollie".  We purchased our 2018 OE2 with Lead Acid batteries and have a Honda EU2200 inverter generator.. 

This past summer, we successfully made these upgrades:  

  • PD 4045 to PD 4060
  • 2000W Inverter to Renogy 3000 watt
  • Three 100 AH Battleborns
  • Victron 12/12-30 DC to DC charger (#4 AWG Cabling)
  • Victron 712 Smart
  • Renogy 200 Watt Solar Suit Case.  

I use the DC to DC charger when on the highway only.  I use solar when camping.  Significantly less frequently we use Shore/Gen power to charge.

Questions:

A.  When on Shore Power OR running our Honda, is it advisable to use the Progressive Dynamics 4060 converter and solar suit cases at the same time?

B.  The Battleborns collectively can charge at up to 300 amps.  Our total max possible charge capability is 102 amps (PD 4060 = 60 amps, DC to DC 30 Amps and Solar Suit Case effectively  12 Amps).  There have been  a time or two when we were in a jamb for time and I really wanted to maximize charging our batteries:  Is it advisable to fire off all of the systems simultaneously?  If not, which should I safely only use?

  Thanks,  GJ

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TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

  image.jpeg.9633acdfb75740f0fd358e1a5118f105.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

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  • The title was changed to "PLAYING WELL TOGETHER": Multiple Charging Systems To Simultaneously Charge Lithiums
38 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Questions:

A.  When on Shore Power OR running our Honda, is it advisable to use the Progressive Dynamics 4060 converter and solar suit cases at the same time?

B.  The Battleborns collectively can charge at up to 300 amps.  Our total max possible charge capability is 102 amps (PD 4060 = 60 amps, DC to DC 30 Amps and Solar Suit Case effectively  12 Amps).  There have been  a time or two when we were in a jamb for time and I really wanted to maximize charging our batteries:  Is it advisable to fire off all of the systems simultaneously?  If not, which should I safely only use?

A.  The PD4060 charger is a smart sensing charger it will know when the battery is full and shut off charging and stay in storage mode.  

"The built-in Charge Wizard automatically selects one of four operating modes: BOOST, NORMAL, STORAGE, DESULFATION."

It's likely your solar suitcase charge controller also is smart  and senses when to stop or turn into trickle charge mode.  

Given those two constraints you're OK running both together.  

In our Hull 505 we don't have a solar cutoff switch so we always are having solar and shore power at the same time and have never had a overcharging issue.  (We have changed Hull 505 from the PD4XXX series charge/converter to the Xantrex 2000W inverter.)

B. I think the only way you'll do all 3 charging sources is if your truck is hooked up to your trailer and running, at the same time you're hooked up to either a generator / or / shore power...and of course solar.  If you did that all at the same time and each leg is fused properly and each leg has a SMART charger that sense the battery level and shut down charging to trickle only once charged you'll be ok.

Craig
 

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2019 Elite II (Hull 505 - Galway Girl - August 7, 2019 Delivery) 
Tow Vehicle: 2021 F350 King Ranch, FX4, MaxTow Package, 10 Speed, 3.55 Rear Axle
Batteries Upgrade: Dual 315GTX Lithionics Lithiums - 630AH Total
Inverter/Charger: Xantrex 2000Pro 

Travel BLOG:  https://4-ever-hitched.com

 

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I agree with Craig.  And at the end, while smart chargers and the BBs should manage things - there's a lot that can go wrong before current gets to them.  It's not just "equipment" that creates concern - wiring size, the length of the wire from the current and even the simple mating of connections all contribute to "playing nice."  I once placed my portables waaaay too far from the external connection - it didn't forgive me.

Charlie     

ALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAHIIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA

Arizona | 2020 Oliver Elite II Twin bed Hull #617 | 2021 Ram 1500 e-Hemi 4x4

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Our 2018 4060 manual has a selector switch for LI and Flooded.  The LI sets it at a constant 14.6 volts per below. 

image.png.0507a91f00bb893f729f7b6a1c2d7623.png

 

When I started the planning for my system over a year ago, I called Battleborn about needing (or not)  to change this unit out.  They indicated that this model does not have the Charge Wizard for the Lithium switched mode.  As such my charging instructions are to charge to the SOC 95% charge and kill the breaker to the Converter for day to day needs.  For equalization every few weeks, charge to SOC of 90%, and then at continue to charge at 60 amps rate for an additional 90 minutes for my Battleborns.  

So basically my charger is pumping out 14.6 volts all the time the breaker is on.  This is why I was wondering how the other chargers... that ARE smarter... would be impacted.

I guess this would have been good info to have provided as from your response apparently some models of this are Lithium Charge Wizzard enabled.?????

GJ

 

TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

  image.jpeg.9633acdfb75740f0fd358e1a5118f105.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, CnC said:

I once placed my portables waaaay too far from the external connection - it didn't forgive me.

Charlie     

What happened? I would "think" the only result would be minimal or no charge, due to resistance loss?

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. DC compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.


        
 

 

 

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6 hours ago, CnC said:

Overheated at external connection... my bad.

I'm going to have to think about about that.

Distance should not have made a difference,  imo. 

Did you have an onboard controller on the panel?  

So many variables 

2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. DC compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.


        
 

 

 

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Long story short, I ran two 100w panels (no panel controllers) on 15 ft factory-made leads piggy-tailed to a longer single factory-made 30 ft lead...  that overheated at the external port's connection.  Both panels were pulling full sun at 9,000 elevation and the Anderson connectors were undersized.  Like I said, just wasn't thinking - my bad.

Charlie.

ALAZARCACOCTDEFLGAHIIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA

Arizona | 2020 Oliver Elite II Twin bed Hull #617 | 2021 Ram 1500 e-Hemi 4x4

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For my portable setup I installed a separate victron 100/50 under the street side bed that connects to the zamp solar port.  This setup allows you to have your panels in series so you can send low amp/high volt current over a longer distance.  I have 6 100 watts panels that I can send to this port in a series/parallel configuration and be well within the limitations of the side port(20 amps) all while using relatively cheap landscape wire.

 

John

John and Kim

2021 GMC Sierra 2500 AT4 6.6L Duramax 11350 GVWR  3048lb Payload

2021 Oliver Elite II.   Hull #887

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On 4/20/2023 at 1:14 PM, Geronimo John said:

So basically my charger is pumping out 14.6 volts all the time the breaker is on.  This is why I was wondering how the other chargers... that ARE smarter... would be impacted.

Back to the question asked.  Since my Charger is a fixed voltage, and from responses that the Renogy solar suit case and the Orion 12/12 DC to DC  are smart, can they all play together?

TV:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker      OLLIE:  2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed.    OLLIE DYI’s:  BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps.    TV DYI’s:  2 5/16" Anderson System, Timken Bearings, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all.

  image.jpeg.9633acdfb75740f0fd358e1a5118f105.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

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