Water System upgrade for better water flow & pressure adding accumulator

[jd1923]

Been thinking about this for a while, reading posts, and collecting parts. So, this is what I'm thinking (see pic). The OEM water pump is a basic model, at 55 PSI (not bad) and 3 GPM (pretty bad). I had the same model in our sold Bigfoot class-C, which I replaced as well. Now I will have 2 basic back-up water pumps! Those of you with newer models have an accumulator, older hulls did not.

When done, we will NEVER lift a mattress to switch a water valve. Some who know me, know that I already have a 35-gallon water tank mounted to my truck. We love our water out here, in the SW, where it is scarce!

I will increase the PSI a little to 60 and add volume 5 GPM (huge), also addind dual .75L water accumulators. Some may get worried re manufacturer specs, although design tolerances have considerable room, often up to 50%. I will add 9% more PSI and PEX is rated to 160 PSI (although not all the fittings are). We run our home at 60 PSI water pressure. Take a look! Please let me know what you think. I'm tearing old parts out asap tomorrow! 😋

[Ronbrink]

9 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Take a look! Please let me know what you think.

Seems like a good plan, really like the power flow control switches. I assume you will be using clamps on the hose barb fittings. 

[topgun2]

Good luck.

I assume that you are going to need a new/additional mounting board for the second accumulator.  I managed to squeeze my one accumulator onto that same board that Oliver used to mount the water pump but there certainly wasn't enough room for two.

Bill

[ScubaRx]

16 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Been thinking about this for a while, reading posts, and collecting parts. So, this is what I'm thinking (see pic). The OEM water pump is a basic model, at 55 PSI (not bad) and 3 GPM (pretty bad). I had the same model in our sold Bigfoot class-C, which I replaced as well. Now I will have 2 basic back-up water pumps! Those of you with newer models have an accumulator, older hulls did not.

When done, we will NEVER lift a mattress to switch a water valve. Some who know me, know that I already have a 35-gallon water tank mounted to my truck. We love our water out here, in the SW, where it is scarce!

I will increase the PSI a little to 60 and add volume 5 GPM (huge), also addind dual .75L water accumulators. Some may get worried re manufacturer specs, although design tolerances have considerable room, often up to 50%. I will add 9% more PSI and PEX is rated to 160 PSI (although not all the fittings are). We run our home at 60 PSI water pressure. Take a look! Please let me know what you think. I'm tearing old parts out asap tomorrow! 😋

 

I changed my valves over to electric about 6 years ago because of the difficulty of changing them from Normal flow to Aux Fill. You can vastly simplify that aspect of your project by using two of the 3-way valves and only one DPDT (wired for reversing) switch.

[jd1923]

22 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

I changed my valves over to electric about 6 years ago because of the difficulty of changing them from Normal flow to Aux Fill. You can vastly simplify that aspect of your project by using two of the 3-way valves and only one DPDT (wired for reversing) switch.

First, I thought I would need only one DPDT switch. Though I purchased a set of 3 anyway. I also purchased one SPDT switch to activate the simple open/close ball valve for the fresh tank drain. 

There are Three (3) water valve configurations, the normal setting to 1) pump from the fresh tank, 2) the winterizing setting to bypass the fresh tank and push to faucets, and 3) the boondocking setting to draw water from an auxiliary tank to the fresh tank. I'm thinking I would need to wire 2 DPDT switches to switch each 3-way ball valve independently, to work all three combinations.

Steve, perhaps you do not use the winterizing combination? Am I thinking this correctly? I will not add RV antifreeze ever, instead will blow out the lines with air, even though OTT does not recommend this practice in their video. I will however use the winterization mode to descale lines and faucets with vinegar and sterilize lines with bleach (not at the same time of course).

[jd1923]

Still want a reply from @ScubaRx on the electrical switches...

Made some headway today. Anybody, yes ANYBODY who has an older Oliver with these 3-way brass water valves MUST change out these valves, even if you do not want to motorize or upgrade!

I cannot believe OTT installed these valves! The opening in only 1/4" WT*!
See pic, this is crazy! What were they thinking? The OEM water pump is 3 GPM. I measured water flow at the kitchen sink and the shower, cold side came in at 48 seconds to fill a gallon container. That's 1.25 GPM down from 3 at the pump due to multiple restrictions along the path! OMG! 🤣

[Hokieman]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I cannot believe OTT installed these valves! The opening in only 1/4" WT*!

Thanks for pointing this out!  In my recent repairs on my water heater I did not remove this valve, so didn’t know.  I will be going back in and replacing with higher flow valves. 

[jd1923]

12 hours ago, Hokieman said:

Thanks for pointing this out!  In my recent repairs on my water heater, I did not remove this valve, so didn’t know.  I will be going back in and replacing with higher flow valves. 

Given hulls 113 and 797 have these, from 2016 to 2021, that's a lot of Olivers. Later they went to dual inline valves to achieve 3-way functionality. Having these restrictions on BOTH the pull and push side of this 3 GPM water pump, is likely the biggest reason for getting less than half the stated flow rate. I would suggest you time filling a gallon water bottle at both faucets. 48 seconds was my result, on both after 2 trials each, which calculates to 1.25 GPM.

The electric 3-way valves I am using have near 1/2" openings (12mm). However, they are not going to be easy to install for two reasons. First OTT does not mount their valves, as one was dangling airborne and the other was wrapped in foam, leaning against the inner wheel well! The motorized valves are somewhat heavier and should be mounted.

Also, this model motorized 3-way valves does not have a straight-through position. One position is 90 left and supply 12V+ and the other position is 90 degrees right. This will take some realignment of the PEX connecting the two valves. Or I believe a 90-degree fitting on each valve should work. More on this later...

[jd1923]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:28 AM, ScubaRx said:

I changed my valves over to electric about 6 years ago because of the difficulty of changing them from Normal flow to Aux Fill. You can vastly simplify that aspect of your project by using two of the 3-way valves and only one DPDT (wired for reversing) switch.

I finally understand what Steve was saying here. I purchased the wrong switches! The DPDT switch wired in a cross-pattern (must have 6 leads), allows for switching the +/- leads to the motor. After you run the motor one direction, switch the other way to reverse polarity and the motor runs backwards.

I will need two DPDT switches though. One is enough is all you want to do is switch from pulling from the fresh tanks while running to the faucets (normal dry-camping position), then switch both valves at once, to pull from the rear port and push to the tank (for boondocking, fresh tank fill). One DPDT switch will do this. But I will install one DPDT switch on each valve motor to achieve the third position, for winterizing (or to push sanitizer to the faucets).

I decided on a momentary DPDT switch: TWTADE 3 Pcs Momentary Heavy Duty Rocker Toggle Switch 6 Pin 3 Position (ON)-OFF-(ON) DPDT 16A 250VAC Spade Terminal Metal Boat Switch With Waterproof Boat Cap And 6.3mm Terminal Wires TEN-223MZX-B223: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

This switch rests in the middle (open/disconnected) position. Hold it up for 5 seconds to set the valve one way, then hold it down for 5 seconds to turn the motor and valve the other way. With the momentary DPDT switch, the center fallback position makes it that there is no current draw at the motorized switches when not in use.

You would want to do this differently if you wanted to utilize the LED light features of these 5-wire motorized ball valves, but I decided no lights, Keep It Simple Silly (KISS)! Was ready to wire up the valves today, but the new switches will get here Friday after Thanksgiving.

[jd1923]

On 11/18/2023 at 7:44 AM, topgun2 said:

I assume that you are going to need a new/additional mounting board for the second accumulator... Bill

Got some plumbing done today. Decided a mounting board was unnecessary and instead connected the accumulators on an old bracket I had, everything wrapped in pipe foam. It should sit nicely on the interior wheel well (see build pic). 

Yes @Ronbrink just 4 hose clamps, found some automotive compression clamps that fit tight, too bad I didn't have 4. You want a few feet of soft hose by the pump and accumulators so that it runs quieter.

I also spent an hour at Depot, figuring out their PEX and SharkBite supplies! I'm thinking some of these will help with the motorized valve installation: SharkBite 1/2 in. Push-to-Connect x MIP Brass 90-Degree Elbow Fitting U280LFA - The Home Depot

[ScubaRx]

@jd1923 Is the valve with the blue housing a Misol brand or US Solid brand.

If it is a US Solid brand the threads will be 1/2" NPT (National Pipe Thread - tapered threads)

If it is a Misol brand be aware that the threads may be 1/2" BPT (British Pipe Thread - straight threads)

Both of these brands are manufactured in China. I'm pretty sure that neither brand valves are using lead-free brass. However, the US Solid brand does have a SS version available.

My original valves have BPT. knowing that there was a slight difference in the thread pitch, I used Teflon tape (several wraps) to make a watertight seal with the 1/2" NPT plastic nipples that I used to join the valves to the rest of the plumbing. I have never had any seeping or leakage, but I wanted you to be forewarned that it might be a good idea to seal those threads well.

I like your plan to also be able to control the valves in such a way that you can also use the system to suck antifreeze into the pipes. The use of momentary contact switches is clever as well. The reason I did not include these functions into my system is because I don't use antifreeze here in the Deep South. I just blow out the lines with air pressure and keep a small electric heater going during the colder months (December thru January) to keep the entire trailer including the basement at about 60 degrees. The reason I did not use momentary contact switches is because the electric valves I used do not have any power draw while they are at rest. I have recently installed a compressed air system in the trailer that lets me flip one switch and it opens two electric valves that allows 40psi compressed air into the plumbing system to purge all the lines and the water heater for my minimal "winterization." There are back flow preventer's in the air lines to keep water from entering the air system when in normal use. I also extended the air lines to quick-connects in the wheel wells to make the checking and filling of the tires easier.

 

[jd1923]

11 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Is the valve with the blue housing a Misol brand or US Solid brand? ...

The blue one is US Solid brand, and the two 3-way valves are HSH-Flo brand. All have 1/2" NPT threads, so all good there.

I wasn't thinking China brass still has lead, though that makes sense. These appear to be modern brass in color, but their ad does not specify. The amount of exposed brass is minimal once threaded in place, and we don't drink RV fresh tank water anyway. The internals include a SS ball valve with a PVC bushing and sleeve. Perhaps we should have gotten the SS model for $123 ea vs. these for $65 ea? The Misol with the BPT threads are cheaper brass and under $30 ea.

All of these valves claim no power consumption when not in use, but I thought why not have the 12VDC+ feed open, when not in use, and the momentary switches facilitate this. I will install all switches where the down position is the default position for what OTT calls normal camping position. Truly love your onboard compressor installation! So convenient having air right at the tires. I will have onboard air on our TV soon, which is a component of an exhaust brake system. 

Like you, I have never truly winterized, can't see that chemical in the lines, "safe" or not, and the weather here is also mild. We blow out our lines prior to any consistent overnight extreme lows. When I was on the Bigfoot forum, a knowledgeable long-time member from Calgary BC only used air to blow out his lines. No issues whatsoever up in that extreme cold, where their daytime highs are often colder than our overnight lows! We were born and raised in Chicago. Lived south for 24 years now, and we're never living real winter weather again. 

I want the two 3-way valves to be switched independently so that I can use the winterization mode to draw vinegar to the faucets to descale the lines and after rinsing thoroughly, add bleach water to sanitize the lines. Why not, for the cost of an extra DPDT switch? (package of 3 for $14)

[jd1923]

Found an issue with our fresh tank. Even though I have drained it twice to date (since our June purchase), this week it would not drain. The trailer is also not quite level. So, I filled the fresh tank, leaving the drain valve open and water came out of the overflow, and not the drain. 🙃

I understand OTT suggests blowing air up the drain opening. I can try that. I have to cut the PEX to replace the drain valve with a simple motorized valve. It would sure be good to have the tank drained first. Any other ideas?

[dewdev]

jd1923

I had the same condition 2 years ago. I used air to blow out the drain line. It has been draining fine since then. It does drain somewhat slow. Raising the front of the trailer helps drain most of the water out of the tank.