RodgerS

I'm retired. My point about insurance is not about having or not having, but how much it costs comparatively. If the trailer is so wonderful in avoiding rollovers and accident damages, the insurance rates should be reduced compared to other trailers...called a reality check. Poor construction and poorly built are opinions that mean nothing to me without the specifics. Poorly built can mean several different things - quality of materials, quality of putting the materials together, or quality controls for verifying quality at all levels of construction. For example, the Airstream mfg, dealers, and their owners constantly represent conclusions/opinions on quality of materials and quality controls, but it takes a lot of work to break down the specifics and compare them to other trailers. When you do, it is not so simple and not all blue sky and happiness. When rolled the interior and exterior of an Airstream collapses as an empty can would if stepped on. I have not seen a picture of a rolled Oliver for comparison and I did look on the internet for such pictures. I would say the apparent relative number of units on the road between Airstream and Olivers means I would expect to more easily find examples of this for Airstreams. My quick research indicated that Oliver crashes are difficult to find on YouTube. That can be because they are non-existent or simply have not yet been posted, but also because there would be less instances due to the relative on-the-road numbers. I don't know. As to trailer brakes, the big reason for having a diesel engine with an exhaust brake is the importance of engine braking relative to trailer braking going downhill as I understand it. Certainly, when studying the big 5th trailers that was critical. In other words, one of the reasons I like the z71 and zr2 is that the diesel engine for that truck does have an exhaust brake. On my list of worries, control going down hill is very important. Yes, the brakes on the trailer are also important. Sway is important, etc. And as I understand it for off-road, the diesel on the z71 adds a lot of useful torque for getting out of and over traction problems. A comparative on construction. Born free motorhomes, and Born Free last I looked has gone out of business, their big advantage, as they represented it among other things, was a heavy steel rollover cage. I am not aware that Olivers have that, right? and...having a rollover cage may help a lot with personal safety but that doesn't mean the trailer or motorhome won't be totaled. I'm not sorry I'm having trouble understanding. I am use to talking with smart and knowledgeable people who are not often challenged...and usually benefit from just stating their opinions and having others respectfully act on their advice and nod their heads in agreement...but are not always on top of their game...nor can explain or back up their opinions/conclusions. I have no problem challenging John because he gave me the impression of someone who is a stand up guy, and doesn't have to to be babied or have others run cover for him.

http://olivertraveltrailers.com/blog/is-travel-trailer-insurance-necessary/ Reading the below from the Oliver website, I see no representation that an Oliver is better or any less destructible than any other trailer when it comes to mishaps or that an owner can not suffer a total loss. If you want to argue that Oliver owners are better at choosing appropriate towing vehicles, better drivers, better at avoiding accidents, and maintaining their Oliver, will never have to worry about fire, rust damage, water damage, totaling their trailer in an accident, that would be an interesting discussion and the trailer is probably worth twice what it costs new. "When considering new travel trailers for sale, many people forget to take insurance into consideration. Although it is not a requirement in any state for fiberglass travel trailers to carry insurance, they can be very expensive assets. It would be very foolhardy for anyone not to properly insure one, no matter what the value or the size. If the trailer is being purchased with any sort of financing, the finance company may require insurance. Even if it doesn’t and the trailer is a total loss, the finance company will still be owed the entire outstanding balance of the loan. Some automobile policies will provide basic coverage for a trailer, for others it needs to be specifically added on. Some auto policies specifically exclude trailers. Before looking into what additional coverage may or may not be needed or wanted, it is important to check with the existing insurance company to find out exactly what the policy covers. Once the limits of the existing policy are known, consideration can be given to what additional coverage is appropriate. For a small, secondhand pop-up trailer which costs a few hundred dollars, it may not be worthwhile to purchase additional insurance. However, some fiberglass travel trailers can cost tens of thousands of dollars, often more than the value of the vehicle towing it. For these, a fully comprehensive trailer policy is the smartest option. As with any insurance, you hope you never need it, but it is essential to have in place if you ever do. There are several different types of travel trailer insurance offered which depend on the usage. There are policies which cover extensive road use, for example, and others where the trailer is occupied full-time for all or part of the year. The only situation generally not covered by a specialist trailer insurance policy is where the trailer is parked full-time. After determining the appropriate type of policy for the trailer’s intended usage, the items which can covered are similar to those in an automotive insurance policy. These include: – Total loss replacement – Liability coverage for personal injuries – Collision coverage – Comprehensive coverage for loss from fire, theft or severe weather – Coverage for personal possessions – Roadside assistance – Emergency expenses – Parked trailer coverage The last item is especially important to consider. Parked trailer coverage provides insurance while your trailer is parked in an RV site or campground and everyone is away, hiking or biking for example. This is not intended to be a comprehensive list of all of the reasons that insurance should be considered when looking at new travel trailers for sale. It is also not intended to be a comprehensive list of all of the reasons to have trailer insurance or the risks to be insured. What it is intended to do is to provoke some thought about how best to get some peace of mind while enjoying a new travel trailer.

With all due respect and gentle kindness. Apparently, you are saying that an Oliver would not flip over? Or are you saying that if an Oliver flipped over there would be no damages or just a few scratches or minimal damage? Do your insurance rates reflect your point of view? I'm all for reasonable and sensible advocacy for an Oliver or an Airstream, as opposed to cheaper trailers on the market. My personal considerations for considering buying an Oliver include a lot of factors, mostly in the realm of quality and quality control. But, having spent a good five or six years in depth, I mean deep in depth, on a variety of RV forums, which included a wide variety of trailers, tow vehicle, and motorhome mishaps, I really have no clue what your point is.

Found a picture of a van pulling an Elite II on rvt.com. Don't know the make of the van or anything about the owner's experience.

Hi Bill, as to tried and true, that is why I'm in this forum, so I can find out what works well with either Oliver trailer. I started from the other end...40 foot diesel motorhome, and 35 to 40 foot high-end fifth-wheel trailers, and have worked my way downward. Wife never like the idea of big anything. After the 10 day RV rental vacation with my wife, that put the Kabosh on my buying a used 35 to 40 foot County Coach motorhome or a big 5th. Took awhile letting go of buying a Volvo semi-truck...should have bought the semi-truck and then let someone tell me to buy the trailer first. My wife initially encouraged me to buy a high-end Class B van. That is not a totally dead ended idea...except I find it difficult to justify spending upwards of 150K+ for a "van," but am gaining some comfort with the idea. I have seriously considered a DIY build, since I have the skills and knowledge. The ability to pull a 5,000 plus pounds trailer would be a plus with a diesel 2019 sprinter. Not tried and true, but something for me to think about. My current vision of an Oliver came about when I realized I liked the Honda Ridgeline mid-sized truck. Shifting to a Z71 would allow for a small Oliver or Airstream (maybe)...but I do like the look of an Oliver. Having spent quite a bit of time demoing mid-size and 1/2 ton full-size, you could say I'm getting use to enjoying a truck of both sizes. I'm pretty respectful of not deviating from the norm and the experience of others, otherwise I would not be here or have already purchased. As to the reason why people are not towing with a diesel Sprinter, I have yet to read about those reasons and am unwilling to assume what those reasons are. A lot of people like a built out van and tow nothing...not a bad idea and highly mobile. I could buy a van and a truck, a truck and a camper, just a van, or a van and porche suv, or a small motorhome and a truck...but I kind of like the Oliver idea and so does the wife. I do know that commercial sprinter vans are towing non-camping trailers for various purposes. Did I say I also considered a Volvo commercial truck for towing a heavy 5th?...so it is not like I don't take this without due consideration or totally avoid the idea of a big truck. However, I do notice there are both pretty good tried and true rules to go by and a lot of truck baloney and bias (in other forums) to sort through. Bigger is better is one of the tried and true rules. Am very sensitive to the torque/HP deficit issue mentioned by Geronimo. My advice is to trade in the truck and get what you were advised to by the forum members. Just move on. But I would not advise a Volvo Commercial class 8 semi-Truck...very cool. Am I right that Geronimo's truck is gas. Another tried and true rule for towing - diesel. ============================= Hi Overland, the specs for the 2019 sprinter should be much better. ========================== Ok, cheers to all.

I highly recommend remote collars. Quickly solves dog "problems." You do need good training yourself, a good relationship with your dog, pre-training on all commands first using positive reinforcement, and a good quality remote. See leerburg.com for training and collars. I have about 5 hours of training on how to use the remote collars. Those of us in particular owning a large working type dog can really benefit. Mace and I can walk outside without a leash with excellent control. Better than any prong or slip collars. I consider it more humane as long as the owner/trainer receives proper training and uses a good quality remote appropriate/adustable to your specific dog's low levels of stem they will respond to. Note: Highest levels are used for aggressive dogs. My remote is a Dogtra with 127 levels of stimulation. Low level is between 15 and 30, more or less. I have a nick (less than a second), bump (one to 10 seconds depending on how long I hold the button down, and vibration available. At this time I use nick 18 for non-distraction and nick 30 for moderate to high distraction situations. The dog learns very fast to react on voice command and avoid a stem from the remote. Under high stress situations, I can get control of my dog quickly. The dog learns to stay in control based on voice commands without a stem required. What happened with shock-called collars 20 years ago and happens with stem collars these days is 180 degrees different.

I'm impressed with the responsiveness and humor of the moderators. Rodger

I should have named this thread, dog in the truck.

I keep it pretty simple with Mace (98 pound Boxer, short hair). Simple one piece seat belt hooked to his collar, as posted above on Amazon. Mace takes up a whole seat when he is sitting, looks more like a passenger from the outside of the car. He rides in the front seat with me in the CLK. He is remote collar trained now, as well. Up to this point, when I'm with my wife, we take her SUV and Mace stays at home. After we get an Oliver Elite, we will see, but mostly my wife prefers an SUV and a hotel room.

(You escaped – with or without a good impression of the truck?) Rides great on its magnetic shocks, very premium experience...excellent impression. Now I have a choice between a $45k mid-size Z71 or $85k full size Denali. Basically one truck, or a truck and an Oliver. Basically it's my dog's decision...what can he have the most fun in. Wife just along for the ride on occasion. ===================== (It’s a sales tactic, but I found it helpful.) The reason I like to walk away is to avoid buying with my emotions, which for me is unhelpful. The next day I test drove an 18 Ford 150...a hot 101 degrees dog's day afternoon. Yes, I agree, I should have rolled up at the Ford dealership in the Denali.

All the comments have been helpful. Thanks. I drove a GMC Denali 1/2 ton yesterday. The pressure to buy was very sophisticated and clever. They handed the key to me, said take it home and get used to it. How I escaped from the dealership, I will never know.

All good points John and yes just because a particular combination works fine for someone, doesn't mean it's capable under all conditions, especially under the more extreme conditions. However, I have yet to read about someone having a problem towing an Oliver Elite or Elite II with a Colorado or a Tacoma. Just speculating, but there is a fine point about the narrower width of the Oliver trailers that may be relevant. Part of the comments on a tow comparison between a Ford 150 and a Colorado pulling a wide large rectangular 5,000 trailer, without using a WD hitch, mentioned that the width of the trailer can also be a relevant factor. I would have appreciated it if they had tried a WD hitch as well and pulled either an Airstream or Oliver or equivalent 19 to 23 footer. And yes, this was under non-extreme conditions. Update note: "The 2019 Chevy Colorado Z71 will also provide so many high-tech features and safety ones, including hill start assist, lane-departure warning, a set of airbags, trailer-sway control, Forward-collision alert, stability control, 4G LTE connectivity, USB port, Smartphone integration, and many others as well...Furthermore, the towing capacity and payload will most likely go up." Well, I can always sell the Oliver Elite if I am unhappy towing it and trade it in for a Patriot Camper X2, but no you won't find me in a bigger truck.

Thanks for the comments. "Bigger is better" is always solid advice when it comes to towing camping trailers and "when it comes to tow vehicles, you want the dog to wag the tail not the tail wagging the dog."

Unless someone can point out a serious flaw in combining a Chevy Colorado Z71 with an Oliver Elite, I think this thread has reached its natural outcome. Nicely done, great discussion, great input!

If I have to buy a 1/2, 3/4, or one ton truck OR a big SUV to pull an Oliver Elite reasonably safely and reasonably acceptably, it is good bye to owning an Oliver Elite...seriously, dead deal. By any definition, I'm talking about decent fire trail off-roading, not extreme or any rock crawling...initially chose the ZR2 by mistake...the Z71 is more my style.

Enjoyed reading all the posts. Thanks, Rodger

Yes, batteries and solar. Prefer Lithium or AGM batteries. The Chevy Colorado Z71 rides nicer that the Tacoma, has almost 1500 lbs payload and 7,500 lbs towing, 4x4, diesel engine...Without the 2 inches of lift the zr2 has, so much easier to get in and out of.

Overland and rogue books, I have reduced the amount of logic and research I rely on and have increased the amount of experience, both mine and others, I rely on. That is why I consider and put out there for thoughts more options and hypotheticals than may make sense to some readers...even nutty or all over the place. My end solutions change regularly as I sleep on the ideas, get forum feedback, gather more experience, chat with my wife, and lay out my hypotheticals... as opposed to just getting er done which would feel really great. My art work is a form of mental traveling and relaxation, I might mention, which is another reason I don't feel hurried. I will be painting some clouds this afternoon. I really like the Mercedes Sprinter Van as I do a Ram 1500 truck. I get that the van is an excellent option for the younger singles and couples for weekend off-pavement activities and DIY is a great way to save $ if time is available or use a custom up fitter if time is not available and $$$ are. I also get that for older couples, a high-end mfg van like a Pleasure Way or Airstream are excellent options for touring. So, I won't toss those options aside until the day I get er done. I also get that for an Elite II it is best to go to a 1/2 ton truck or maybe a land Rover, a diesel, etc. Just don't see a van, 1/2 ton, Land Rover, Elite II, etc as the optimal options for what I want, my wife wants, and blending that together which is tough for me to do right. I spoke to my wife as she was falling asleep last night and was able to get her to understand that a diesel engine, hopefully with an exhaust brake, is an important consideration if we are going to tow any trailer. She was more focused on what I would call secondary factors...she likes the looks of the Tacoma. I did go out and measure my driveway this morning, which as 23.6 feet. My wife is from China and she likes the idea of a small trailer and really doesn't care for 23 feet and up. So, as my first post indicated, something like a ZR2 and Elite could do it for us. Am going to go out and test drive a GMC All Terrain and a Colorado Z71. I really like small trucks and later I will probably turn my 01 Mercedes clx (my current RV) in for a nearly new Posche Macan or some such. Rodger

Update 1: The wife and I spent 5 hours discussing this, looking at videos, and demoing trucks. Conclusions: a) Honda Ridgeline - No b) Chevrolet Colorado ZR2 - No c) Ford Ranger - Not relevant. d) All 1/2 ton trucks - No e) Mercedes Sprinter and Metris Vans - No f) Toyota Tacoma - Go g) Oliver Elite or Elite II - Go. Wife has decided to accompany husband on his trips as long as the trailer fits on the driveway. Next update after I purchase the Toyota within the next three months. By being patient, letting my wife think about it for the last 5 years, she has come around after listening to me tell her several times that I will travel with or without her. She loves to do photography. Yes, time is, in fact, on my side. Tomorrow I drive 1.5 hours to see a current owner's 2016 Elite II. Rodger

Don't have the numbers yet, but for a frame of reference as I understand it, many of the Sprinter van mfg builds one would buy from an RV dealer often retain a 5,000 pound tow capacity allowing one to tow, for example a small SUV or trailer, after being fully built out. Historically, the problem has been a poor leftover payload capacity since they stuff them with so much stuff especially the $150k plus offerings. A partially build out DIY van should "should" allow for the towing of an Oliver Elite or Elite II. Given a 3500 model, diesel, the weak link in the chain might be the standard tow hitch with a 5,000 lb rating. I'm still trying to find out if it is just an issue of an uprated tow hitch option. When I get something on the GCWR I will let you know. The newer 2019s on my consideration list are not order-able until 4th quart 2018. All of this considerations come together near the end of the year for me.

Anyone currently towing an Oliver with a Mercedes Sprinter van? The 2019 is supposed to have increased ratings. "Need a little extra towing power, as well as a platform to build your own work vehicle? The Sprinter Cab Chassis delivers with a maximum towing capacity of 7,500 pounds. Whether you’re moving building materials or a smaller vehicle, the Sprinter Cab Chassis has the strength to get the job done. It’s also a capable hauler with a maximum payload of 6,400 pounds." https://www.mbtemecula.com/mercedes-benz-sprinter-towing-capacity/

"TIME IS PRICELESS in our busy world these days." Per my Toyota Sales Manager.

I think Raspy and I have a mind meld.

After my retirement I found that every day I have the equivalent of time available I use to have every two weeks. So, my time expanded. Also, every day I have lots of things I like to do, so I'm not missing out on anything.

Hello all, I live in the Bay Area California. Good advice on the Toyota Tacoma. Went for a drive in a TRD Sport - a) rode very well b) 6,400 lbs tc and almost 1200 lbs payload c) has safety features the chevy Colorado does'n't have. So, it now moves to first place on my list. Now just a Ford Ranger to experience. I think I confused driving a Toyota Tundra last month with a Tacoma, so good to get it back on my list...hated the Tundra.