DanielBoondock

Yeah I mentioned the scuppers in the post, but not sure what you mean about 'drawing the water out' when you drive? Seems like they should just act like drain holes is all, unless there's something I'm missing I don't see how there's an airflow mechanism other than this passive system with low free air space (scuppers with mesh covering don't support much passive airflow) On interior condensation, I see in some of the factory tours they talk around this as if condensation won't happen but that simply can't be true. It's a highly unusual design which creates new problems, there's three climate zones, so now you have to worry about condensation in the in between hulls. I'm not bothered about cabin condensation as that can be detected and managed, but I'm curious about real world experience with inner hull condensation, how prevalent is it? Dan

If interesting, some more points in my thinking behind Ollie vis-a-vis Bigfoot/Escape/Airstream External ports All the sewer water connections flapping in the breeze under a trailer is pretty ugly, I've long thought. I love the bumper waste drain solution. Topping that, they moved the fresh water inlets to the rear bumper too, with now I believe only the black water rinse and optional propane near the front. Design is about obsessively refining small details, which I've done for my life, so appreciate the energy put into this. All the others including Airstream have them flapping in the wind Lower skirt Trailer frames are pretty unattractive - one of the great looking design features of Airstream is that they hide the frame behind the belly skirt, except for the fork of course. Ollie beautifully skirts this in fiberglass. And going aluminum, while it introduces new issues like galvanic currents (which they fix by having some zincs), is a better choice. I hate to see dinged and rusty trailer frames. Repairability The Ollie is eminently repairable - even the tanks can be pulled out without having to gut the trailer. Even with the double hull everything appears to be accessible Efficiency Speaking of towing here. We're electric so appreciate good aerodynamics. Two things, first is that the front space is filled with that propane bay. Towing a trailer creates a low pressure suckout between them which introduces drag, so filling that with something helps. The Bigfoot also has this. Two is the general shape, while there's plenty of roof gubbins which rob efficiency, it appears to be not too bad. Durability Hands down Oliver. Airstreams are beautiful but absolutely ridiculous. You know why they used Aluminum? I believe it's because all that post war scrap coming back, the early Airstream aluminum probably fought over Europe. It was cheap, and part of the mid century design language. Gorgeous, and like much mid century, impractical. And on the Bigfoot I was disappointed with the fiberglass build quality. To be sure it's more than adequate for the job, but there's something to being overbuilt. From the online factory tours it's obvious the Oliver is overbuilt in this department, with the beautiful honeycomb solution they use - strong and light. Now about that double hull ... To be honest initially (many years ago) this turned me off. Thinking of building engineering it's actually a bad design, as it creates three climate zones. Inside, between hulls, and outside. This results in the likely hood of condensation in between hulls, which they have to mitigate by having breaters. A house, for example, has a single vapor barrier, the Ollie has two which is the wrong way to go about it. With your house there's little possibility of condensation forming as there's just that one barrier. But does it really matter? I'm curious to find out if owners have seen this as an issue, and at any rate if I'm in a humid climate a small dehumidifier could be placed in between. Inelegant solution but sometimes you have to do that. Anyhow, one benefit is that the three zones should help with keeping the trailer cool/warm as there's a buffering zone between the two. So on physical design, size, design language, features, practicality, aerodynamics it wins hands down. Now about that price ...😅

No haven't followed the Mod section, see above 😅 Actually the engineering isn't done when I retire, my son is graduating in CompSci in a month and he's got a startup I'll be working for. I'll be mentoring on the engineering side but working in the 'creative' side. Not full time, but something I want to do anyhow. Good tip on the batteries, yeah maybe I don't know ... on the other hand time is money and I can earn that $10k in no time in my job, less time than it would take for me to DIY at any rate 😅 Thanks. Yeah going to Tenessee without a rig isn't going to work. I'm 'traveled out' (meaning flights/hotels) from years of intnl travel for work. Can't stand it, and my wife too. As for used that's not for us, wife is a germ-a-phobe and wants a clean trailer and not one with used tanks. Plus impossible to find the set of options we want. I bought $25k worth of ebikes a few years ago sight unseen - also part of my retirement gift - with 200% satisfaction. I'd like to see it but this works for fine for me if I need to. There's one or two owner trailers within an hour we could tour but none with the right size or options Thanks! Yeah I just said above I'm comfortable buying sight unseen and have done it before. In my work life you spend all your time making decisions and making something entirely in your head. You did a good job if the prototype is anti-climatic and an old friend. Anyhow by the time I make a decision on a vehicle, bike or trailer there's little need to actually see it I've found as nothing would change the decision. One small slight counterexample of that is my tow vehicle. I was deciding between the new Silverado EV and Sierra EV, but had an opportunity recently to see them together. What I found was the design language and presentation of the vehicles was a bit different than what I expected from the internet. Anyhow my decision switched from going for the Silverado, to the Sierra. This is different though - I've already been in a Bigfoot which is the only real competitor, and I've toured Escapes from the outside. So I pretty well know what it's like inside these things. As I mentioned the head room and decor with the Bigfoot ended up being the main drawbacks. Also the bathroom - I'm tall/thin and could barely fit in the Bigfoot drybath. I think the Ollie wetbath will probably work better. One, it's got enough headroom and two, since it's a combined space there's more total space. That Bigfoot shower barely fit me, I wasn't sure how I'd even use it, with a stool I guess. Already forgotten 😅 I've got some ridiculous raises recently, either because of the inflation, or maybe because they know I'm retiring 😅And also I've downshifted into a easier more relaxed job, so I'm now outstandingly overqualified and overpaid for what I actually do. I'll still be having whats generally considered an early retirement, just with a guilt free traveling rig and a pile of extra money to boot. Anyhow no need to retire tomorrow, with this rig being in California we have more than enough to do within a day's driving. Thanks! Nature and the arts is our thing, we spent grad school in Illinois but never went to the Chicago Lyric (Opera). Couldn't afford it 😅so we'll go back for a visit among many others. Yes the factory said there's a couple trailers within an hour - the nearest dealers are 12 hours away. But the local owner trailers are either single axel, and the other I think might be the double (which is important as it's the right size) but isn't the twin. That's fine - we might do it, but as I talked about above it won't matter much, by process of elimination there's really no other choice.

I’m also a water purist. At home I go further than RO - I have a full distillation unit. Before anybody asks about minerals they’re certainly not necessary, you get more than what you need from your food. Plus what is in water isn’t chelated, it’s hard minerals so not usable anyhow. FWIW after some months I clean out the tank and what do I predominantly find? A kind of clay like material. Basically particulates are the biggest foreign component of city water, which is all held to high standards generally with published testing results. I thought about RO but only works on city and generates a lot of grey water, and anyhow becomes an engineering project (which I’m retiring from! 😅) We don’t have our rig quite yet but I’m planning on carrying fresh much of the time and just using double filtration - I got the Camco unit. That’s good enough for us, it’s ‘camping’ after all. I plan on carrying fresh much of the time as backup. Not planning on drinking out of the FWT though, I don’t trust that plastic and can’t inspect how clean it is. I’ve got 5 gallon jugs we’ll use for that. https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Products-Aqua-Pak-Gallon-Container/dp/B0002IW6JS

Hello, I’ve been on the forum for some years and I’m closing into retirement and making my decision. Started with Ollie years ago, drifted over to the Escape, then Bigfoot camps as I thought the Ollie too expensive, small and overbuilt. Now with the tariffs I was forced to reconsider them as they are US based, and realized it was for me. Escape 23 is pretty expensive now for what you get. Bigfoot length/width was silently bothering me for handling, plus the old school decor isn’t great. I toured one, a big issue is interior height. My head brushes the ceiling and I barely fit in the bathroom. I’d have to crouch to shower. Plus I’d have to do a bunch of mods, they don’t even offer lithium, and the tongue weight pushes the limits on my TV. So with the Ollie I’ve got the interior height I want. The size is fine for a couples camper, plus an easy to tow and park size. Especially with the Black cushions it’s an elegant interior. Finally, I’m retiring from engineering and don’t really want to DIY. Done enough engineering projects in my time, once you start you’re never done 😅. The Ollie is the only one that comes exactly as I want. So I’ll be placing an order later summer Platinum twin Composting Street awning Platinum batteries (more than I need but might as well, plus I like the integrated heating) Now to make the horrific price easier I’m actually extending my retirement date. It’s free money if it’s past my nominal date, right? 😅 Only thing is I might actually buy sight unseen. No nearby dealers, nor LE II twin. Shouldn’t be a problem … Cheers

Sorry, if you can slow down I can tell you a few things. I’d rather not have to, I’ve been down this discussion too many times but you started the discussion so I feel I have to address it. And I’m not trying to start a forum war, but I think you’re not aware of the facts. Any electric truck on the market has better HP and better torque than any ICE. 754 HP and 785 lb.-ft. of torque, from zero to full speed. What does an ICE Sierra have? 350, maybe 400. This is just physics. Now if you’ve ever driven one, or watched some videos this is a long established fact. Do you know the TFL channels? Old time truck guys with the biggest truck channels on YouTube, They cover EV trucks and constantly relate how they can’t even tell they’re pulling a trailer. No heating issues, they don’t even show the temps because they never change. These aren’t ICE - they have midsize payload (2k) and tow capacity (10k), with HD+ performance. On range sorry that’s just misinformed - a trailer affects range on a ICE or EV exactly the same - this is just physics. All the folks who are towing now, with these trucks are talking about their ranges on the forums and these are real numbers. In addition to no maintenance and lower running costs, they have other advantages. How would you like to not use your truck or trailer brakes going down the IKE? Or using a trailer gain of 2, because you can capture that energy back into the battery? Look, to be honest I’m not interested, if you don’t like EV’s or whatever that’s fine, I don’t care, people asked what I’m driving and I answered, I don’t need another lecture about ICE and don’t need to be tutored about a subject I’m well informed on, especially when I drive the damn things. I’m sure you mean well, but let’s just talk about the trailer OK? And to be clear I’m not soliciting unasked for advice about my tow vehicle. If we can drop that subject, I’m happy relating my experiences with this rig if anybody is interested. By the way I’ve driven ICE trucks my whole life and EV’s the last decade so have been on both sides of this equation and understand it intimately. ☮️

West Coast up to Canada with occasional East Coast trips. Thanks I'm very familiar with charging, it's changing dramatically. There's the NEVI funding which is 3B before the administration paused, but private industry is barrelling ahead anyhow. GM in particular is spending billions via Pilot/Flying J, the Ionna consortium, etc. Even now you can get pretty much anywhere except the top center of the country (Dakota) I doubt it personally. One is that RAM isn't serious about EV's, they planned three battery plants and only have one, so they don't have much kWh capacity. And that hybrid is kind of overkill - you have to gas AND charge which is a pain. With all the trouble of a gas engine, plus a limited battery and the complications of both (two cooling loops!). All to get an extra 100+ miles over a Silverado ... really it's better to just go either gas, or EV IMO. Yeah that's not what I was saying, three hours driving (60 mph is my speed) is 200+ miles. Have 500 to use half with towing losses.

By the way I've heard that red outside lights - in addition to not killing your melatonin for a good nights sleep, and your sensitivity for the stars, also apparently (or supposedly) isn't a bug attraction like a white lights is 🤷‍♂️

No worries, but let's just say I'm a physicist/engineer so curing myself of overthinking is like curing a Soprano of her voice 😅 And anyhow I've been debating this the last five years so I'm down to the fussy details so don't be surprised to see me ask more oddball questions, but this is the home stretch. I'm retiring in a few years, and the schedule is I can get the truck this year and trailer next. The lineup has been Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver. The Ollie was my first choice, but I left it for the Bigfoot due to the Ollie size. But recently with the tariffs making Canadian trailer purchases interesting, I took a look again at Ollie and realized 'heck a true 24' 7' wide would be nice and easier to deal with'. And I'm tall, my head brushes the Bigfoot ceiling, but the Ollie is a great 6' 7" or thereabouts. Finally I'm an old sailor and love the fit/finish. So basically I've made probably a final decision which is the Ollie 👏but my wife still has to decide 🤔... main problem is I don't see any Ollies nearby (N. Ca). I'd probably buy sight-unseen, but getting her in one would help.

I believe previously they used foil bubble wrap, but more recently (as of five years ago it seems) they're using Protex AD10 10mm 1/5” R22 insulation. This was taken from the following long video playlist with nerdy construction details. The bottom outer is wrapped, and the upper inner. Additionally for (all - some?) of the trailer there is an internal honeycomb material that is spray and fabric fiberglassed. This will have some R value due to those dead air pockets. As an engineer type I've thought about this design, it's interesting. Conventionally in a structure you want a single vaporbarrier with two climate zones. But having the double hull they have three, in trailer, in wall, and outside. This means that the between hull space is it's own climate and can potentially have condensation issues of it's own. This is why they added the drain holes along both sides. Normally that would be a poor design, but if you think about it, it's not much different from your attic or crawlspace. Both need air vents (ridge/soffet vents and foundation vents) to prevent humidity buildup, but also provide an insulation 'barrier zone'. In summer my roof will get to 100+ degrees, but I measure less than that in the attic. If I had a Protex barrier glued between the rafters, it should be roughly air temperature, which in a sense buffers the temperature from the roof which acts like a heat sink. For comparison consider, of all things, the James Webb Telescope design with it's five layers sun shield Now the inner space is heat conducting air and not insulation vacuum, but I'd think at least that should provide some buffering of the temperature gradient. Additionally, since the ducted heating runs along the water pipes below, during the winter at least that waste head isn't wasted - it goes into warming up the inner wall. And during the summer months, the outer takes the brutal heating from the sun which should be a lot of radiative, and the double foil deals with that. tl/dr ... basically I think it's possible it comes to some pretty high insulation R value given all these factors, maybe even R22. A test would be something like putting a trailer in some hot desert and seeing how long it takes to warm up an insulated box which is pressed/taped against the wall. It would give you a rough idea at least, should be pretty good I'd think.

Don’t have it yet, buying a Sierra EV this year and a trailer (the Ollie is in the lead at the moment) next year. Ease of unhitching is important as most charging sites aren’t pull through friendly. Fortunately with 500 miles range I should only need one charge for a towing day. Anyhow this one is particularly easy, especially for my wife who would like to be capable. Dealing with chains or bars won’t work for her, pity. Thanks -

I’m in the home stretch of deciding which trailer I’m going to buy. By the way, I’m not ‘overthinking’ as you say - my retina have very little pigmentation by some quirk of genetics, being outside without sunglasses can be painful, so yes before plunking down near six figures I’d like to be sure of my purchase and that changing out the lights wont’ be a major deal. One of the trailers I’m looking at has that as an option already. Thanks for the replies and sorry for missing some details, yeah this is interior lights mostly, but exterior would be great too but not too bothered about those. Coincidence, I have a 12” Dob I build I also plan to use when I can get some dark skies. Thanks for the tips. By the way I like your user name, you haven’t happened to have read Fall by Stephenson have you?

I’m light sensitive and at night can’t stand bright white lights. I love the LED light scheme Oliver’s have (considering getting one), but would ideally like a white (daytime) reddish (nighttime) switch, or just reddish. Any thoughts on the feasibility? What kind of light figures are these, just 12V screw on I suppose, does anybody have a picture or more information? Thanks! Dan

I’m wondering if the BW Continuum can be used with the Oliver? It appears not because of that long neck. Can anybody tell me how long the neck is to the V? Attached are the dimensions required, thanks!

Well I simply expressed my view as a potential customer that I don’t feel the cost increases and present day price (with just a few necessary options I got a $90k trailer easily) are justified, and got a storm of replies insisting it’s worth every penny. Fair enough - you folks have already bought in at some time or another, but FWIW the present day price is turning away at least one potential customer. For these prices I could purchase an Airstream, and as good as the Oliver is, it isn’t an Airstream, by reputation alone. Of the comparable other equally well build fiberglass trailers (in my view) can be had, that are larger and to my view better laid out. The two ends of a trailer are the premium spot, why put the bathroom, door and closet at one of them? That forces you to have a tiny dinette. Again just my comparison shopping views. Anyhow don’t get your feathers ruffled and no need to repeat how much you like your trailers, but FWIW feedback to the Oliver folks to whatever degree that matters. If the price now gets into Airstream/etc territory that’s what customers are going to compare it to.

Salaries haven’t kept up with inflation since 2000, except in public sector jobs where they gave 3% like clockwork. Now they generally make as much as private, plus the pension plan, it’s a joke. I interview young folks making 80 in a town with median house price of 800, double ridiculous, they’re getting it the worst As far as I can tell it was a 40% hike in two years, the II being approx 50k in 2020. Also folks you don’t need to bring in discussion of business ethics as that’s not the point, my comment was to the fact that I and I’m sure other folks in the market are not happy with the situation, so many will be rational and sit it out. Pricing is what the market will bear, plain and simple as all good business people will do. And unfortunately what usually happens in such a situation is that prices skyrocket, and then slowly deflate in the inevitable downturn that occurs afterwards (and shoppers cool off). For RVs in particular that appears to have begun. A nice fat recession will knock those material prices right down and in fact it’s already happening. Anyhow amateur economist here, enough said …

Hi John, Winter camping can mean a lot of things, given this geographically diverse country we live in, and yes there are many examples where it’s got the challenges you mention. Thanks for your thoughts. We could talk about monetary policy, the yield curve and the various forms of inflation and deflation but maybe not here 🙂 A small point though that the raw material prices, and demand for RVs has softened, exactly as you’d expect. Thanks very much for the comparison to the Airstream, that has been in the back of my mind. I don’t want to write a novel but my childhood was spent fishing with my Dad in RVs, tents and cars, in all seasons in remote areas. It’s mainly about what my wife thinks. I didn’t know Cruise America does trailers too, thanks for that tip.

Hi Folks, I’ve been chatting with the wonderfully helpful members here on the towing forum already, as there’s no reason to introduce myself if I can’t sort out whether its possible to pull one. Anyhow with the help thats cleared up so now I’m on to stage two to see if this is the right thing for us (wife and college age son will come with us occasionally) I’m retiring from my regular job in a few years (taking a somewhat early retirement) and am moving on to working for myself. Otherwise I don’t want to just have a working life at this point in my life and want to reconnect with many things in my life, including travel and old hobbies. Looking to do these kinds of things with a trailer Various hobbies such as astronomy (built my own telescopes), long time photographer, hiker and reconnecting with a one time career attempt at paleontology and geology. Have our own place while visiting relatives Moved around a lot and would like to revisit those places and many new ones in the US (I’m burned out of international travel I did for work) As I mentioned on the other thread I need to do computer and piano work while on the road. Anyhow, I’ve done winter backpacking and so am looking for a 4 season trailer, and being an engineer I appreciate the care and design of the Oliver. For tow vehicles I’ll be getting a 3/4 or 1 ton Silverado probably. The final issues I’m working through are the following - Cost - Oliver has jacked the prices by some $20k during the pandemic, which has been done elsewhere, but it sticks in my craw and makes it difficult to purchase at such nose bleed prices, including that I need a truck too. I’m all for companies making profit but am not comfortable with this. Annoying as I’m not suffering from pandemic consumerism but just want to retire. Interior dimensions. It’s very cozy, but (not having been in one) appears not to be as open as others. Probably a design trade off given the robustness of the trailer, but I wonder if it will bother me eventually, or isn’t a problem Ideally I’d be able to take one out for a weekend somehow, but probably not possible. I worked on farms and such, and drove all over towing stuff with my dad when young so am comfortable with that, but am not sure if this is worth the cost and trouble (I also need to find a place to store it!) For example I used to sail, and paradoxically a beautiful used sailboard goes for a fraction of the trailer, and no tow vehicle necessary, why not make it simple and cheap and buy a yacht? Anyhow those are my main concerns, any thoughts welcome

The smaller one is getting redesigned, is the II stying the same as far as we know?

Love it. I’ve owned 3 low end light duty trucks from past years, the new WTs actually have touch screens and cruise, I’m already upgrading My wife always picks white, we have two white vehicles already. We’ll probably do another white 🙂 Great point. Also, if it’s a work truck I’ll worry and fuss over it less which is a big bonus. I’m happy to fuss over a premium trailer though

The small two person dinette by the kitchen. I have a tall son. Thanks -

Thanks John, yes I’d like a better interior but not the price. The truck would be for trailering and odd jobs, I don’t otherwise need it and when home will have to drive it just to keep it lubricated. And also I want to replace with a high end EV truck when that’s more feasible with a >200 mi towing range (only problem is range now, the US is blanked with fast chargers now and they’re investing more billions of public and private money. We do lots of road trips in our 230 range mi boring EV no problem) And between a truck and trailer this is a very expensive proposition! I’d rather have pedestrian vehicle instead of a pedestrian trailer, for now I guess I wasn’t clear enough that there’s what I want to haul and what I will haul. But you make a great point, I’ll look closely at the 3500

Great tip thanks! I saw that but misinterpreted it to indicate the truck weight or something. Based on all the great feedback here I’m looking at Silverado WT (work truck) or equivalent 2500 or possibly 3500 (which seems overkill) Crew cab short box 6.6L V8 Gas engine 4WD 3.73 rear axel Highest GVWR I can get (only option is a lowered 10k GVWR) Trailering package (electrical, hitch etc) Cruise control, good/bad idea?

Thanks everybody, good thoughts here and I really appreciate the help. No firm plans yet but rough ideas and am information gathering and figuring what will work best for us. Really good info on trucks, I’ve learned a lot here. Maybe here’s the question I should ask, if you were Boondocking with a typical amount of equipment in a Elite II, of the trucks above available from GM what would you recommend, and any options you know of? I heard above that 2500/3500 are probably a good choice for this. Say I get a Silverado 2500, what are you thoughts on that in this use case, and any particular options I should be looking at?

Thanks John (my Dad lives in Spokane - been there many times). Boondocking, state parks and conventional, I’m going back to Canada, Yukon and AK, and we have plans for all the states. It would be the bigger Ollie. No the EU7000IS beats all others by a mile actually, fuel injection and on eco mode goes 18 hours at a whisper. We travel light otherwise so the 250 is nothing, and I need the 7kW as house backup power which is what I originally got it for, it’ll be just dandy. Piano is a Doepfer stage piano with Fatar action in a stage case. Not big for an 88 key, not much bigger than the keyboard. I’m thinking under the king size bed. Telescope goes in back of the truck, dobs are made to travel it breaks down. Anyhow thanks for the thoughts, but I am looking mainly for truck advise, I’ve owned several light duty truck only and never got into the bigger ones and towing.