BoondockingAirstream

I am having a similar issue with a new Thread under General Topics. I went back, found the post and did a cut and paste onto an email, so I had the text saved. There could just be a delay, but when I hit Submit... it went blank. I have a Mac computer. Maybe that is the common cause...? Well... this posted right away. Lets see if an 'edit' is the problem. Nope. The edit works fine. Maybe it is the New Thread takes time. My title concerned Airstream and Oliver Trailers and still has not appeared under General Discussion... but shows I made the Post. It could be the... competition feeling the heat of an Oliver passing them??? ****It posted on this Thread. You know that A*******M is watching this Thread and taking cues from Oliver trailer innovations! ****Oops. It is now gone from this Thread. I tried.

While viewing the Airforum website for Airstream Trailer owners, an interesting advertisement was among the mix. Oliver Trailers! Airstream owners and Trailer shoppers may find Oliver 23 and 25 foot trailers an excellent all around trailer. I have yet to physically look at an Oliver II 25 foot trailer over, but some of the interior photographs I have seen give the brand... a BIG plus in my opinion. The 'price point' is very competitive for an Oliver Trailer. The interest of Oliver Trailers is breaking out of the Special Group of Owners and into the general trailer market. The lengths are at the top of the 'bell curve' of most trailer owner's preference. Not too small. Not too big. Just... right. The width at 7 feet makes the Oliver an optimum Boondocking trailer, ON or OFF the Grid. The Airstream 23 foot is 8 feet wide and the 25 foot is 8 feet six inches wide. Fiber glass shell and insulation, just may, beat the aluminum shell with insulation to maintain a comfortable interior during cold, cool, warm and hot weather. Fewer leaks of the outer shell. Less expensive to repair fiber glass. White fiber glass reflects heat. No rivets in one of the two brands. Yes. I own an Airstream. It is a fine trailer. It holds its value over time. Oliver... is RARE... but getting attention of those who know trailers. Will the 'Big Trailer Manufacturers' focus on the Oliver as a coming... menace to their business? Be proud of your Oliver Trailer. I look forward of the day to Boondock Dry Camping with an Oliver for a great conversation and time Off the Grid. Be well, fellow trailer owners, and expect Oliver Trailers to BEAT the competition as to quality, meeting the highest standards. Competition may make produce more inventory, but quality is sacrificed. Quality is the best advertising a trailer manufacturer needs to be recognized as Number One in the Industry. It speaks louder to everyone looking for something... new, innovative, practical and affordable. A seven foot wide Oliver would make any narrow road cut... look, rather easy.

We tried using a commercial pet folding walkway that would be about six feet long and maybe 18 inches wide. After one trip decided it was easier to move the crate with Heeler inside. Probably intended more for ingress and egress from a pickup bed with a topper. Some great options to select from previous well illustrated photogrpahs. Traveling Wyoming, Montana and western Nebraska it is not unusual to see working dogs standing on top of the tool boxes behind a pickup's cab while driving through town. Obviously not recommended for everyone. We have larger pet porters that do not slide in and out of the back doors as they are narrower. The 2006 Tundra had lots of back door width... the 2012 Tundra Crew Max not as much and the F350 Ford is even a bit narrower. Some day my back will say it is time to improvise... but until then, both Heelers curl up and like John, when we exit the highway they wake up and are eager to check out the new smells and sniffing. If people traveled this easy and let the dogs do the driving.

Wonderful options for dogs... and kids, alike. Since we stop for fuel about every three to four hours, our Heelers do well traveling. More for the wife, but we will leave that alone. OK? Our 2012 Tundra was easier for the Heelers to climb into and out into their crates. The F350 is higher and we will lower the crates to let them out. A real pain, but it is better than shoulder injuries from jumping down after being crated and curled up. Dingo, the Heeler you see on top, tore both of his ACL's, at different times, one year chasing Jack Rabbits in the desert. One ACL injury and then about three months later, the other when running with three legs in motion. After eleven months and no $3,000 to $4,000 ACL vet surgeries, Dingo is 95%+ himself and now resists chasing anything, to a point. His lesson learned the hard way. He was just a couple days from being put down for a 12 year old dog... I call him a Jock Dog as he always living on the maximum throttle of his physical... super powers heeling. Like I said, a working dog. #1: November 2015 #2: February 2016 Our first Blue Heeler was able to sit on top of the blanket covering the camping supplies. She would see oncoming traffic and would run in circles in the back of the SUV. Thus... the Dog Porter. Took care of that. And, much safer for any sudden stops, although a catastrophic stop it would have made little difference. Many dog owners do not realize that just a common ACL injury to a hind leg will cost thousands of dollars in vet bills. We love our Heelers, but they are working dogs and if they cannot...work, or pretend to be working, it is a life sentence they would not like. Far beyond being a lap dog. We worked with Dingo on his ACL injuries every day making him walk a short distance and increasing the distances over time. Today... unlimited mobility. We saved $6,000 or more, and he will live to be an old Dingo. They can also 're-injure' a repaired or healed ACL injury. When camping and hiking, these working dogs like to be along side us three to twenty feet or in front a distance, looking for trouble lurking in the brush or forest. Then return to make sure everyone is...keeping up. IF your dog suffers an ACL separation... have hope to work your dog through the injury. His muscles will atrophy if you do not work them. They leg or legs will shake and quiver from weakness. But... within a month we had him taking short hikes, yet his hind legs would quiver and lacked strength. Today... his muscle tone is back and no quivering. Even surgery does not guarantee a fix. We put him on pain medication after the first week... and the next day it improved his ability to walk. Now he is on half the pain medicine and soon... none. Photo is August 22, 2016 in the Medicine Bow Mountains, near Laramie, Wyoming. Thank you for listening. Someone following this thread might have found an option. We learned this ourselves. The vet's all wanted surgery without guarantees of any success. Sometimes, even ourselves can emulate our dog and get better. Today is a good day to start!

This is how we 'stack and pack' our two Australian Cattle Dogs, aka Blue Heelers. They travel in their Pet Porters on the back seat of our truck. This is their 'den' and they cannot wait to get into their own Pet Porter when traveling. Same when the porters are stacked in the trailer with limited space. One is the UP dog and the other is always the DOWN dog. Now we have one pillow under the dinette tale and the other in the hallway for evenings. The favorite spot is under the table, so the Early Dog gets the Den. What is your mode of transporting Dog(s), Cat(s)... or mice?

Just some For Your Information... The turning radius of the larger 2007 to current 5.7L Tundra pickups is TIGHTER, than the smaller 4.7L Tundra. You would think that the smaller Tundra would be able to make tighter turns, but even I was surprised that the larger Tundra was a big improvement! Better brakes, more power, better cargo capacity, heavier hardware... just a wonderful tow vehicle and local driver. It uses a 2" receiver. The F250 / F350 have the 2 1/2" receiver with the 'sloppy sleeve reducer to adapt a 2". The finish on the Tundra is superior to the Ford, at least to my 2016 F350. The doors of the Tundra seal out more dust. The Tundra's tail gate has a tighter fit, so not sucking dust into the back of the bed when you have a topper. Tundra resale for used vehicles is excellent. I would expect the Oliver trailer hooked up to a post 2006 Tundra to be an excellent combination. The weight at the hitch of the Oliver is less than a similar sized Airstream, from what I see on specifications.

The Tundra 5.7L is very capable and reliable tow vehicle. I have towed heavier trailers... but did not like the cargo capacity being at or exceeded once the trailer was loaded. Just something to mention. When I went from the smaller 2006 Tundra to a 2012 Tundra there was one small item not mentioned. The tail lights on the 2012 Tundra 'bulge out' and with the 'chain Equalizer' hitch at a sharp angle would make contact with the side of the trailer. At least with the Airstream. Learned the 'hard way', once and that was once too many. Even the tail gate can be an issue. I needed to rotate the Airstream hitch jack control box on top, so the post 2006 Tundra tail gate would clear. This may not be the case with an Oliver... but this may have been discussed on the Forum. A friend had an Arctic Fox 25 foot and discovered that the 2012 Tundra tail light broke through his fiber glass shell on a tight turn. When I told him about my experience... he admitted to his at the same time. We both felt... dumb, but his 2000 Tundra was his previous tow vehicle. Newer Tundra's, I do not know which year, changed to tail lights that did not bulge out. Someone may know. An Oliver may not be affected depending on the brand of hitch, but keep this in mind. My current Equalizer Hitch with the 1000# sway bars clear, with room to spare towing with the F350. Whew....

John... we can only dream of having one to six horse towing capacity. So much for emissions and comfort. I thought it best that I get some numbers from my two Airstream examples: 2006 Airstream Safari 23 foot (hitch to bumper) Double Axle- tongue weight 600# (aka hitch weight) 4,460# UBW trailer weight from factory + 1,540# NC cargo= 6,000# GVWR 2012 Airstream International 25 foot (hitch to bumper) Double Axle- tongue weight 860# 5,594# UBW trailer weight from factory + 1,760# NC cargo= 7,300# GVWR Back in the 1930's a single axle Airstream was pulled by the founder... on a bicycle. Obviously, not very fare, either. 2017 Oliver Legacy Elite 18 feet 5 inches Single Axle- tongue weight 375# 3,640# UBW dry weight from factory +1,360# NC cargo= 5,000# GVWR 2017 Oliver Legacy Elite 2 23 feet 6 inches Double Axle- tongue weight 420# 4,600 UBW dry weight from factory + 2,400# NC cargo= 7,000# GVWR Getting these numbers for Airstream vary considerably with options. Both Oliver trailers are probably very close to actual, unless you add more options... if possible. Just from searching the Internet for numbers, it appears that an Oliver leaves a lot more cargo load capacity for a 1/2 ton truck or a SUV for towing. With luck, someone with real knowledge has a tighter range of numbers. Finding empty weight numbers can vary... how much, you would really have to own the trailer and make an assumption that the GVWR is close. Many present and future Oliver owners want their every day commuting vehicle to be capable to tow their trailer. This is very... very important. When I was young, my 1956 VW was my commuter and 'camper'. I understand. Obviously my F350... beast... is capable of much more trailer than I own. This is the exception... from my experiences of being border line in cargo loads. But... the Oliver for the size and all of the neat, and I say NEAT... standard equipment, you can get away with a lighter tow vehicle. Just consider this before buying and expecting to pull your Oliver Elite 1 or 2 with a 1956 VW bug. Do your homework BEFORE purchase. Sometimes it is better getting the larger trailer first. You never have enough Oliver or Airstream if you are buying for the long, long term. But... look at it this way. There are very few Oliver trailers to be found USED. You will no doubt get a premium price, as NEW models get more expensive over time! If I were young again... lets say 35 years old would be perfect, what an opportunity for an Oliver. An Airstream is expensive in comparison and there are many available in the USED market. A middle aged couple are already catching on to what I am saying. If you are waiting for new prices to plummet or used trailer prices to plummet... wake up, these are 'tiny homes on wheels'. But, I guess, those looking for a fully equipped trailer can dream and compare the big boxes to the streamlined options.

Oliver's are bit heavier due to the fiber glass shell. But they are built on a frame, suspension and tires that will handle it through the plains of Texas to the toughest the Rocky Mountains can throw your way. Airstreams and Oliver Trailers have many similarities. Towing during a Wyoming cross wind and stability while being passed by 18 wheelers... is a big deal to most trailers... but not to ours. I have towed a 2006 23 foot Airstream, double axle, with a 2006 4.7L Tundra 4x4... with an Equalizer Hitch that used the chain to transfer weight from the Hitch to the Front of the Tow Vehicle. Never needed sway control... never. I would expect the Oliver 2 to handle no differently. Plenty of power, loaded or unloaded trailer. Just border line with cargo load maximums. I have towed the same 23 foot Airstream with a 2012 5.7L Tundra 4x4... with the same hitch used with the 2006 Tundra. It towed with ease and the larger Tundra only helped in the ease of towing, comfort and a slightly larger cargo capacity. The 23 foot after eight years was a pleasure to Boondock and travel across the western USA. We 'upsized' into a 2014 25 foot Airstream for three reasons. Larger refrigerator. Queen sized bed. Fifteen inch wheels which were upgraded to 16" Michelin LTX tires. The 5.7L Tundra towed this heavier trailer easily. The cargo capacity was always borderline, although had no effect on towing, power or sway using the Equalizer Hitch with 1000# bars for the heavier trailer. If you find the Oliver 1 wonderful... some day you will be finding yourself in an Oliver 2 for the same reasons. Oliver already has the 16" Michelins! The balance of the axles seems very well designed from sight. I see no reason that a 4.7L or the 5.7L Tundra cannot handle the slightly heavier Oliver 2. Since I have not towed a single axle Airstream, someone else may want to add their Oliver 1 experiences. Currently, due to the cargo limitations of the smaller 2006 Tundra and, even, the larger 2012 Tundra, I went to a 2016 F350 Ford 6.7L diesel and increased the hitch from a 2" to a 2 1/2" hitch shank to fit snug into the Ford's receiver. Cargo capacity more than doubled and total... over kill... but now have high mountain elevation towing capacity and am not limited in exceeding cargo load capacity, as with the Tundra's. I never had any mechanical issues with either Tundra. I never had any towing issues with either Tundra. This should be the same with your Oliver in tow. Having 4x4 truck options does make gravel and dirt roads in wet or dry conditions... easy. If you are 'flat landing'... you may not need 4x4, but in the Rockies... and going off the paved roads, it is almost a requirement. Having a Tow Truck pull you out of a muddy stretch of Forest Service road... once... would pay for the 4x4 option. Other tow vehicles and V8's with or without 4x4 can PULL an Oliver or Airstream easily. It comes down to the Cargo Capability. I prefer a longer wheel base tow vehicle that is heavier overall. The pickup truck is also used for local driving and can haul whatever I need. A SUV is great if you do not need to haul lumber or sheetrock. This is my experience with tow vehicles and towing. I hope the F350 Ford provides the same no mechanical issues as my Tundras. Others with other tow vehicles may want to describe their experiences. There is no right or wrong vehicle... as each of us have different reasons of owning two of America's finest trailers. When the Oliver population begins to expand... those of you with an Oliver will discover you have made the right choice. I look forward to the day that I can park my Airstream next to an Oliver and show everyone, camping in comfort is available to anyone.

Wikipedia U. S. Route 20- Plan a 2017 Oliver Adventure. Make NO reservations. Make NO plans other than if a place catches your interest... make those Custer Decisions that are immediate and totally... well, unplanned. YOU and your family will find this an adventure of a lifetime. "The '0' (zero) in an east-west United States Highway indicates that Highway 20 is a coast to coast route. It spans 3,365 miles and is the longest road in the United States." If you are adventuress and want to see the RURAL USA in its finest representation.... US Highway 20 is it. This is the very unknown 'Gateway to Yellowstone Park. Make detours to the Black Hills from Fort Robinson, Nebraska. Make detours to Northeast Wyoming to Devil's Tower, around the Black Hills to Sturgis, South Dakota before, during or after the Bike Rally. Caverns. Hot Springs. Mount Rushmore. Crazy Horse Monument. Gold Mines. The Buffalo Bill Museum at Cody, Wyoming and stay to the west at the Buffalo Bill Reservoir where you can camp... very reasonably. Make detours to Montana... The Custer Battlefield aka Battle of the Little Big Horn aka Custer's Last Stand. Headwaters of the Missouri River. The Yellowstone River and camp along the sandy beaches. Butte and its HUGE open pit copper mine that is 'green and blue' water sloshing around in it. Pan sapphires near Phillipsburg, Montana for a small fee. The Wisdom River south of Wisdom Montana and Boondocking in the National Forest... Idaho... my goodness. Just looking into the canyon cut by the Columbia River, Snake River... should be enough. The giant Potato Heads of Idaho... may be observed. Rank up there with the Easter Island Moai Statues. Well... not exactly as giant Potato Heads have not yet been discovered in Idaho... but you can look for them. Your Oliver should not be gathering dust from being parked. Take two weeks and be spontaneous. This is suppose to be an Adventure... not a RV Park $35 to $75 experience. Learn how to fill your fresh water tank on the road. Find dump stations. Visit each State's Welcome centers... and many have FREE dump stations or can point the direction to where they can be found. Do not follow the 99% of RV's and Trailers doing the same old stuff. Oliver's and their owners are... SPECIAL. A minority among true Boondocking capable Travel Trailers and should be used as one. Any fool can make reservations and camp with a hundred other trailers. Be proud of your Oliver and you will... once you get the hang of Base Camping and being spontaneous. If you can go six days Base Camped at minimal cost and relax at a full service RV Park... the money saved is WHY you have an outfitted trailer to begin with. Unless I am unique among trailer owners... which I hope not. Highway 66....? Not even close to a US Highway 20, which most is two lane and rural once in Nebraska. Although Highway 66 is more developed until you get into the Southwestern US... Highway 20 hits the small towns whose occupants are actually 'happy to see you'.

My first visit to Fort Robinson, Nebraska was in 1965. I was 15 years old and invited to go 'Fossil Hunting' in the Badlands of Western Nebraska. My friends had a pop up camper and drove from Independence, Missouri to Fort Robinson. Although since the 1980's the Ranchers I met and knew in the Badlands have died and their ranches have changed hands several times. In the 1960's to early 1980's there were not many fossil collectors coming to this sparsely populated panhandle of west Nebraska. I knew the local Ranchers, each by name. I was given free roaming rights for many years. Even the Mayor of Crawford, also an avid artifact and fossil collector invited me to stay at their home when I came as a 16 year old... with a 1956 VW. For an independent teenager who loved collecting fossils... wouldn't it been even more wonderful in a 23 foot Oliver!!!!! Sioux County and Dawes County, Nebraska. These are the same age as the Badlands National Monument of western South Dakota. Give or take a million years... 35,000,000 year old white clay and ash deposits. The area was humid, meandering rivers and a wide variety of animals. Saber Toothed cats, Rhinos, Horse, Deer, Rabbit, Mice, Moles, Tortoise, Pond Turtles, Birds, Snakes, Lizards and on. Their remains are still washing out of these same Badlands. The only areas that you can actually hunt these fossils is by paying a Ranch to collect. I suspect that today all of the major Ranches have leased collecting to professional dealers. BUT... Toadstool Park is open to those who want to wander these Badlands, but prohibit your picking anything up that is washing out. The main attraction for most is Fort Robinson State Park. They have wonderful tent and RV Trailer sites at reasonable prices. www.outdoornebraska.org has the details and when facilities open and close for the Season. A very nice restaurant. Melodrama in the Summers... making pottery, painting classes. For kids... turn them loose and they have unlimited recreation options. This is a 'destination campsite' with everything... yet reasonable prices! Fort Robinson's attractions are an Olympic swimming pool, Horse back rides into the bluffs, a very intact Cavalry Fort where Crazy Horse was murdered in 1877 and a monument marks the spot... right next to the camping areas. Tennis. A museum. The Black Hills are close enough where you can leave your trailer and drive to see Mount Rushmore and the Crazy Horse Monument, among other things worth visiting... like Deadwood and Lead. A busy 'day trip'! There is some National Grassland camping to the north and west of Toadstool. The gate will say 'Please Close Gate'. These areas are leased to ranchers for grazing, but they are Public Lands. You would be camped right in the middle of these Badlands. Wandering around them is a lot of fun. Can an Oliver do all of this? Your Oliver can do all of this and MORE... You are about 50 miles east of the Wyoming border and your camping trip can extend all the way to... Yellowstone Park and, beyond. I am including some photographs taken June 1, 2006. Just so you have a sense of what the area is like.

John, Bill and Buzzy... you have to stir the pot to get the ingredients for Boondocking right. What team work! Southwestern Montana, Idaho and western Wyoming are Boondockers 'Gone to Heaven' camping areas! But, try it during the months of May to September. July can be HOT along the lakes at 1,000 feet elevation and COOL at 5,000 feet elevation. So when you choose an area look at he elevations. Southwest Montana is High, Dry and comfortable during the Summer months. So many campsites in the National Forest... why even consider paying at a RV Park. Swimming at the State Parks on the west side of Flathead Lake (South of Lakeside, Montana) and parked on pieces of real estate that home builders will pay a million dollars to build upon. Phillipsburg and the Wisdom River... pan sapphires and camp in the forest. The Missouri River and the head waters. The Yellowstone River is wide and we have camped on the beaches on the north side of the river... Boondocking. No reservations needed... just a map and a little curiosity. Finding the first couple Base Camp sin the forest is the toughest. Once you catch on that you can do it on your own... 'who needs a stinking badge?' Treasure of the Sierra Madre quote. All of the photographs are from some early Montana campsites. Both Oliver 1 and Oliver 2 Elites can camp at these sites as my 23 foot Airstream. No plans. No reservations. No crowds. Pick a National Forest and... look. Northeast Montana is a bit brushy as it is lower elevation, so Forest Service designated sites are best. Real... brushy.

The Anasazi Indians Boondocked long before Olivers. Had they the opportunity to have an Oliver... they would have been the envy of the entire Southwestern USA. This was their home without... wheels, or horse, or... all foot powered. I include some photographs of a number of Pit Houses in New Mexico at 6,500 feet elevation. They survived without the many things we require in our trailers. This is just one example of a community of five or six Pit Houses... the ancestors to the Cliff Dwellers. Although they could also been the 'summer homes' away from the Cliff Dwellings. This is what you and your Oliver can discover... just by reading about what requirements these Native Americans needed such as Shelter, Water, Food and supplies needed for maintaining and preparing these in their vicinity. Many Pit Houses will have large trees growing from them. The pit houses were originally circular when you stumble across any. At the beginning you may be standing on top of a Pit House and not realize it, until you see the pot shards and agate or Obsidian flakes... you would have never known. Many of these ancient dwellings were 'pot hunted' for their contents in the 1890's once the area was opened for logging. If you find stumps of large pine trees... expect the ancient contents dug out and taken. As you get further away from easy access, the Pit Houses are very impressive. Any of the wood used for a roof has rotted a thousand years ago, but you can see the shape, the entrance and as usual... one or more pine trees growing from them. The broken pot shards are examples of a talent in these primitive conditions... to us, that is. One photograph shows pottery and chips washing out of the dirt, away from the pit houses. They, for whatever reason, would break a damaged pot into smaller pieces and toss them aside. Find a pot shard... the Pit House can only be a short 'toss' from where you are standing. Have a wonderful 2017 Olivercamping Season!

The Oliver and Airstream 'mother of all'.... Kalispell, Montana

Buzzy... I have followed the Hull numbers and some literature concerning Oliver Trailers. Reintroducing the 23 foot is a perfect size for a family to go anywhere and not need a tow vehicle designed to haul tons of trailer. The Rocky Mountains can experience snow in July, although at higher elevations. June, July and August are popular months for out of state travelers. Locals avoid many places at the times around holidays. The heat and humidity of lower elevations give many an incentive to enjoy the low humidity and the temperature drop is large in some cases from a High and a Low at elevation. October to March in the High Country can have bad results as far as a blizzard. I am sure there is a chart somewhere for all months in various locations. We had frost north of Gunnison, Colorado in late June! Hard frost and snow still on Cottonwood Pass. Off the Grid camping offers unlimited options in most of the Rockies. Wyoming and New Mexico provide millions of acres. Keeping above 3500 feet elevation is the number I always prefer for perfect temperatures. We have camped in snow and blizzards. It is the fan to operate the furnace that has limitations, unless you idle your tow vehicle. We will be getting a propane portable heater for next year. And solar as we begin to spend more free time Off the Grid. There are many things a Boondocker needs to have available for the large variety of weather conditions at elevation. The best part is in the Spring... the snow is going to melt. Get snowed in November... you had better have a snowmobile to commute into town.

The previous four photographs are with our narrower 8 foot wide and 23 foot long Airstream. If you put an Oliver logo over the Airstream logo... people would believe it was an Oliver. As... no one takes an Airstream off the highways and Olivers are as rare as a mountain lynx. Any Oliver can do these sites in the photographs. You are narrower and have better clearance. It just takes some experience and possible traveling with someone who has already learned what is possible and when just to... find a way to turn around and depart the area. It all depends on why you have your Oliver. No one blames you for not having an interest in Off the Grid or Base Camping. This is a big investment and you want to avoid doing any harm to your trailer. My point is that if my low clearance Airstream can do this... you have not seen the other sites we have been camped. Now with a longer 25 foot trailer and six inches wider... we mostly Base Camp. We get to an area that is convenient and use the tow vehicle to get further back into the wilderness. Sometimes, finding some great camp sites we can easily get to. Ask questions. I can already tell that there are a good number of true Boondockers following this thread. As a rule, most true Boondockers do not like crowds... but make exceptions when asked. Two to four trailers 'in training' is more than enough. Once you have liberated yourself from PAY campsites with crowds, noise and just plain obnoxious campers... you will be ready to put your Oliver to work. When you do discover Base Camping... post those photographs. Seeing is believing. Sometimes... there is no place like Home on the Range.

Top Gun and John Davies are providing map data that would be for those hard core Off Grid trailer travelers. John did bring up the fact that many of the road numbers may not agree with one, two or all of your maps. At times your vehicle GPS has a name for a road that you have just a number. There is a system to National Forest and Bureau of Land Management roads. As the road becomes less traveled and becomes a two rut hunter's camp trail... the numbers indicate that. At times if the County maintains part of the road, there is also a County Road number! At some point it stops and another name or number... appears! Of Airstream owners... maybe 15% depart the asphalt and RV established for pay sites. Of that 15% those that would Base Camp or Off the Grid camp would eliminate the marginal 5%. I put together four group 'Adventures' in the last two years. The latest was called the 2016 Wyoming Boondocking Adventure that was offered May 15, 2015. Twentyone signed up and the Adventure was 'closed' to any new members for a ten day Off the Grid and Base Camp trip in NW Wyoming. This trip was to begin August 14 and end August 24th, 2016. By July 14, 2016, ten had dropped out for various reasons. On August 14, 2016 eleven met at Laramie, Wyoming. By August 22nd, five finished the entire route. This is an example of what some trailer owners consider RV Park amenities and Boondocking are the one, and same. The first day Off the Grid the wind was at a steady 25mph. The next morning a vote was made to leave this site and into the mountains. One member dropped out immediately, that morning. Several days later in the mountains, it rained. It was cold. A vote was made to leave this area and chance the mud and slop out to asphalt. On our way to Jackson, Wyoming the sun was out, the sky was dark blue. We Base Camped along a river and those who fished, caught fish near Alpine, Wyoming. When leaving for the next Off the Grid site along the Oregon Trail between Farson and Atlantic City, Wyoming (nearest towns) there were only five of us remaining from an original 21, to 11, to 5 members of the original group. THIS is why those who have not trailer camped Off the Grid or Base Camped... need to understand that there are no showers, flushing toilets, facilities of any kind other than what you bring, yourself. There is only the sky above, the ground below and whatever is in between. The 85% to 90% of trailer campers prefer to stay at established National Parks and established Pay to Camp established sites in these areas. I prefer to camp in between National Parks and Boondock. Crowds are not why we travel to camp near. It is a lifestyle choice. Usually for those Middle Age and younger. The majority of Airstream owners are... well, lets say older and professionals wanting catered campsites. The Oliver 1 & 2 are perfect for camping anywhere, anyplace. It is not the trailer that is incapable of traveling roads of various widths and surfaces. It would be new owner's limitations. As said earlier... two or three together can share knowledge and feel secure pushing their experience and limitations. Others, as myself and a couple already posting on this Thread... are more comfortable by themselves for obvious reasons. We are NOT TOUR GUIDES or hired help once camped. You must make your own plans in some of these situations. Some hike. Some bike. Some like to wander around and collect rocks. Some just want to photograph the wilderness area just across the shallow meandering streams. Many Oliver owners are located in the SE USA. Obvious that they would be. I have seen none in the Western USA. See a lot of Casitas and Airstreams and the huge fifth wheels and other brands parked by the hundreds at RV camps.

I will follow John into the wilds, any time. The older editions of DeLorme Atlases had more going for them than the new editions. They also changed the pagination so one having an older atlas can not give a location using a page number and coordinates of letter and number. If anyone buys a DeLorme Atlas from their site there is a coupon on it for 50% discount. I think competition is getting tough and like John... he has enough to navigate anyplace with accurate information at his finger tips. Great post John. Give everyone you license plate number so we can follow you.

Buzzy and his 9-14-2016 post about maps. Most navigate with GPS. There are systems where you can actually follow satellite views of the roads and routes as you go. I do not have this technology, as I tend to look for geological interesting areas to explore. Getting there may require Base Camping and hiking up to an outcrop in the distance. If it is too .... easy, everyone has already been to the site. I can tell at a glance in some areas if people have found this area before myself. The National Forest Service maps are excellent. I prefer these most of all. The United States Geological Survey sell excellent maps. I use geological maps from the late 19th century into the 1970's. Obscure places are my favorites. It is very interesting to come across campsites with trash laying around from the 1870's! After awhile you will be able to recognize how old a campsite is by the construction of a 'tin can and solder' as well as the Henry, Sharps and other old rifle cartridges. Some vehicle GPS systems are better and worse than others. My 2016 F350 Ford is poor compared to my former 2012 Tundra that showed roads in the middle of... nowhere! ... and they existed. I just had a telephone call from a guy coming by the house. I sent him detailed directions on how to find our home. He used his GPS in his vehicle. He is about ten miles from me and ... lost. I asked that he use my directions that detailed how to find our home out in the County. This is a great example of someone using 'modern technology' and not following instructions.

John E. Davies... we were camped Off the Grid thirty miles NORTH of DuBois, Wyoming about August 21, 2016. Just a year too early. Two of us from our 2016 Wyoming Adventure scouted the high country to the southwest of DuBois for an Off the Grid site, only to discover very few campsites offered a great view of the Eclipse due to the trees and lack of open areas. The ENTIRE State of Wyoming is promoting this event. You can even pick up Wyoming Eclipse 2017 stickers from any Wyoming Welcome Centers and State Parks. We drove from DuBois to Moran Junction, Wyoming which is on the way to Jackson, Wyoming. When you come into Jackson Hole country, the Grand Tetons fill up your entire view from north to south when driving west. At sunrise, it is a view you will never forget. Many years ago we took our 23 foot Safari to a National Forest site that required some skill to navigate, but it was high above Jackson Hole and would be near the CENTER of the ECLIPSE path! Maybe we could have a contest and have one to five Oliver trailer owners WIN the GPS Coordinates. There is no doubt of others knowing of this obscure area, as I did camp there myself... but the 'early Oliver gets the prize Base Camp Site'. Any ideas? One campsite has room for 8 trailers. Other sites in the trees and two possible access roads of questionable quality today.

I appreciate your comments. There appear to be a good number of Off the Grid and Base Campers owning Olivers.

I was having difficulty posting the previous post and am deleting the duplicate. Those of you who presently own an Oliver... you are being noticed. Not only by other individuals but other RV manufacturers. Be proud that you are among a small but expanding group of trailer campers. You might prefer being camped at National Park campsites or in the National Forest by yourselves... but make no mistake. If Oliver backs up its promises to you... you are the few among the... many. The hospitality of the Western USA within the Rocky Mountains is all yours to explore. Welcome. Even if I am not able to greet you myself, post your experiences under Boondocking so we can all live through your experiences.

I am very impressed with the responses from Oliver owners and those of us who find this website welcoming to those that have a different approach for the uses of their trailer. Obviously some serious Base Campers and Off the Grid travelers! I am very familiar Base Camping with a 23 foot Airstream after eight years of the learning process from 2006 to 2014. There are no books that will provide actual 'experience' on the real reasons why my wife and I went directly from Tent Camping to Trailer Camping. Anyone... and some of the previous posts are from those willing to learn or already hard core former Tent Campers... are going to Oliver Trailers for several reasons. 1- There is a very positive atmosphere at Oliver. Their Sales and Promotion people give out their office phone numbers, email address and make themselves available. I cannot do that at Airstream, easily. 2- Oliver owners are much like Airstream owners. Proud of their trailer and the utility of their trailer in many travel situations. IF my Airstream, which is set LOW on the Dexter Axles, can travel some of the most remote roads on the Rocky Mountains... Oliver's need not add lift kits. The 16" wheels as standard is a huge PLUS. 3- Oliver owners out in the Western USA are a bit bashful. None have come out to have a Some Other Brand (SOB) sniff out the plus and minus between two very road worthy trailers. Olivers and Airstreams. Airstreams can be found everywhere. Olivers are just getting a following that is working their way to the West. Although after Four Airstream Adventures... my wife and I agreed that we would not do another. There is a lot of background work required and no matter how you stress this is not for Tea Time campers, and the weak hearted... they come and leave as soon as they see a RV Park in town. There is no 100% perfect trailer for Off the Grid camping. None. I have been replacing hardware and adding bolts, where wood screws once were to hold things together. I have a thousand or more rivets... of which seven have popped and I installed Lathe Screws to secure the inside aluminum... forever, I hope. With use, you will find the weakest parts of any brand of trailer, upgrade them the best to your ability and go at it, again and again! After two years of camping trips, you will possess the BEST trailer you will ever own. If one of the two local Front Range Colorado Oliver owners, either one, want to sponsor a 2017 Oliver Wyoming Eclipse Adventure, I would be willing to assist in the planning from my experiences. This would be a July 2017 or August 2017 Adventure as the best time to be in the High Country is during June, July and Augsut. I am an optimist among the Oliver owners on this Thread. If YOU have only half of what I consider required experience... when you are finished you WILL be a Off the Grid / Base Camper.

Stan... you have great taste in reading material! I will use your reference to pull up some of my favorite topics that Airstream owners find important. Airstream owners have several major topics they consistently bring up: Typical Question: Toilet Paper clogging up their Black Tank, what should I do? Answer: Put all toilet paper used into the trash can next to the stool. No paper down the hatch, you do not have to get your arm into the Black Tank to find the problem. Typical Question: My Marathon trailer tires keep coming apart, wear irregular or have blow outs. Answer: Buy an Oliver. It has 16" Michelins. E Rated. Or replace your D Rated 15" with 16" wheels and 16" Michelin LTX M/S2 tires... like Olivers. Typical Question: Should I have my propane refrigerator operate while pumping gasoline? Could I cause an explosion? Answer: More people die from Food Poisoning. Not from exploding refrigerators near a gasoline pump. Your trailer's refrigerator ignition system is 20 feet or more from your vehicle's fuel tank entry. Maybe you should stay home and worry about meteorites impacting your swimming pool. Typical Question: My tow vehicle is a converted riding lawn mower. Do I need a license plate on my riding lawn mower while towing my 30 foot trailer? Answer: No. You do not need to put plates on your riding lawn mower while towing your trailer. What you do require is an AM/FM radio while you are towing and I include a photograph of my tow vehicle. This is what Ethanol can do to your paint job, while pumping gasoline. ... and please. Detach your trailer when mowing your yard. Been there. Done it. Of course, some of these Q&A's are spoofs... some are not. Let you serious Boondockers figure it out. And Stan... this is our secret. OK?

John, thank you for your interest. Oliver is 7 feet wide, while the narrowest Airstream is 8 feet. All other Airstreams are a bit under 8 feet six inches. This gives the Oliver an advantage to slip through those tight spots where larger trailers would have to spend time and clip overhanging branches. So you want to see 'no other campers within sight'... Check these out. Both taken in Nevada... I do not see any Desert nor other campers out here! Oliver owners... Nevada is wide open for camping, if you have a Nevada Atlas to navigate to these locations. We were looking for Cambrian trilobites and had to squeeze through some Juniper Pines. This was our 23 foot Airstream which is the narrowest Airstream at 8 feet. Both photographs were taken the first week of MAY. See the snow... plan your trips well as you can run into last Winter's snow drifts in Nevada and Wyoming!