Trojan T105 batteries dead

[ScubaRx]

7 hours ago, Going said:

…but main one I see that is not on my BB quote is INVERTER, XANTREX FREEDOM XC 3000 Pro at about $1500.  I need to understand why or what that does because it is on their quote for the 390Ah and the 630Ah package…

The Xantrex 3000 watt inverter/charger is necessary to have in order to be able to run the air conditioner off the batteries. It also is able to recharge the lithium batteries at up to 150 amps per hour, 3x that of the PD4045. 

[Going]

On 10/22/2022 at 5:16 PM, ScubaRx said:

The Xantrex 3000 watt inverter/charger is necessary to have in order to be able to run the air conditioner off the batteries. It also is able to recharge the lithium batteries at up to 150 amps per hour, 3x that of the PD4045. 

Good to know.  I will ask BB about including it, primarily because of the faster charge and I assume since Oliver does not replace the solar panels with there system the Xantrex will do the same thing with BB.   I can’t remember, but doesn’t the soft start lower the watt requirement to 1000 from 1200 with out it?  I have the soft start.

[Going]

On 10/22/2022 at 11:55 AM, ScubaRx said:

You didn’t mention in the Oliver vs BB comparison the Oliver has ditched the inadequate Zamp equipment for Victron. It won’t make up for the $$ difference but it is light years better in capability. 
 

I swapped my Trojan AGM’s for three BB’s a couple of years ago. We rarely use more than 12% during the dark hours and we are back to 100% by noon with good sun and we only have 300 watts of solar. We were not hobbled with the Zamp stuff as our Hull #050 (and the next 150 trailers) was outfitted with Blue Sky equipment. 
 

A 100 watt panel can only put out about 8 amps so you can calculate how long it would take to replace amps used with whatever number of watts of solar you have. With either the Blue Sky or Victron equipment,  you’ll get a few extra amps because their controllers are MPPT vs PWM on the Zamp. 
 

Older trailers will also need to replace the PD4045 charger with a lithium compatible model ($200+).

I have the PD replacement included and am adding the Victron back in.  Had it in then took it our to simplify and because I wasn’t sure if it would fit in the Zamp space.  I currently have the Zamp.  The Victron is two piece to get the wall display too, from what I am seeing.  Did you just mount the non display piece in the space behind the Zamp display?

[ScubaRx]

3 hours ago, Going said:

I have the PD replacement included and am adding the Victron back in.  Had it in then took it our to simplify and because I wasn’t sure if it would fit in the Zamp space.  I currently have the Zamp.  The Victron is two piece to get the wall display too, from what I am seeing.  Did you just mount the non display piece in the space behind the Zamp display?

We have Blue Sky equipment in our Oliver. With all the different brands, to have a good setup, you have to have a solar controller, a shunt and a display. The Victron display Oliver is installing is the BMV-712. It is Bluetooth enabled and I think it provides the best bang for your buck. Shop around for the best price. 
 

As far as the shunt, one is included with the BMV-712.  
 

The solar controller you need will be dependent on the total wattage of all the panels you plan to connect to it. You will want to install it as close to the batteries as possible to lessen voltage loss from a long run of wires.  Do not mount it in the battery compartment. I would put it under the street side bed if possible. The 712 display needs to be inside the cabin in a location that is easy to view. Ideally I would put it where the Zamp is now. Just fabricate a panel large enough to cover the hole and mount the 712 in it. If you need further help with that, PM me. 

[Hokieman]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:04 PM, Going said:

One last thought is BB makes the 270Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle 8D Battery and it costs $2279 and it appears two of these would also fit giving me 540Ah

Regarding the 270A BB battery, according to Frank C. it won’t fit in the battery tray (see post link below).  You might want to measure your tray to see if it’s the same.  This post also gives opinions on capacitiy recommendations.   It seems many folks, including me, have found that 2 BB GC3 100’s is plenty.  I now have 3, which in our case, is overkill.   But, we don’t have an inverter, microwave, toaster oven, hair dryer, etc, and have not used more than 50A/day.  We have the standard 340W Zamp panels and the standard Zamp 30A controller, all works fine.   Your power requirements requirements may be significantly different.   The advantage of starting off with one or two GC3’s, is that you can easily add a 3rd if needed, unless of course you want to operate your AC off battery power.   There are many posts on that topic also.  

Replacing the Powertron Lead Acid Wet Cell Batteries

 

[Going]

On 10/23/2022 at 7:59 PM, Going said:

The Xantrex 3000 watt inverter/charger is necessary to have in order to be able to run the air conditioner off the batteries. It also is able to recharge the lithium batteries at up to 150 amps per hour, 3x that of the PD4045. 

I think I have decided to add the inverter instead of the PD4045 for this reason.  Of course it adds $1500 to the total costs but my BB contact said if I did not mind spending the extra money he definitely would recommend it.  Thanks for originally clarifying this for me.  Does anyone happen to know where Oliver installed the inverter?

[Going]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:50 AM, Hokieman said:

Regarding the 270A BB battery, according to Frank C. it won’t fit in the battery tray (see post link below).  You might want to measure your tray to see if it’s the same.  This post also gives opinions on capacitiy recommendations.   It seems many folks, including me, have found that 2 BB GC3 100’s is plenty.  I now have 3, which in our case, is overkill.   But, we don’t have an inverter, microwave, toaster oven, hair dryer, etc, and have not used more than 50A/day.  We have the standard 340W Zamp panels and the standard Zamp 30A controller, all works fine.   Your power requirements requirements may be significantly different.   The advantage of starting off with one or two GC3’s, is that you can easily add a 3rd if needed, unless of course you want to operate your AC off battery power.   There are many posts on that topic also.  

Replacing the Powertron Lead Acid Wet Cell Batteries

 

Thanks for the info.  The thread from Frank C was very helpful and yes after further study, I do not believe the BB 270Ah batteries will fit even if you do remove the battery tray.  So going with the 100s.  I will add another post and list of upgrades once complete.

[Liana]

On 10/29/2022 at 12:04 PM, Going said:

.  Does anyone happen to know where Oliver installed the inverter?

Ours is under the street side Bed

[Going]

On 10/31/2022 at 11:32 PM, Liana said:

Ours is under the street side Bed

I have been wondering the same same thing.  You are asking about the Xantrex 3000 correct which is fairly sizable?

[Going]

On 10/16/2022 at 11:03 PM, John E Davies said:

Four 6 volt AGMs are certainly the most painless and cost effective option. But they are not especially long lived, anything longer than three years is uncommon. Mine were fried at the beginning of season four. The advantage is that they are completely plug and play, you don’t have to mess around with different charger settings or making new cables.

Lithiums are the way to go if you are at all handy and willing to learn how they work. They require a clear understanding of their differences and care. The weight savings is stunning! They do require a new charging board for your converter, with a “lithium switch”, and a simple change of settings in your solar controller. Your truck will no longer charge them properly, you should either disconnect that charge wire or install a smart DC to DC charger that will properly manage that current. If the brand has its own Bluetooth app, you do not need to do anything else special, but Battle Borns require a separate battery monitor, to keep track of the state of charge. (You can no longer use the system voltage since it doesn’t steadily decline like a lead acid battery.)

I suggest that you educate yourself about RV lithium batteries, and then make an informed decision. I switched to two Battle Born 100 amp hour ones and I find that amount to be plenty, except when I am running a compressor fridge in the truck, that uses up to 50 AH per day and then I start to worry.  I do have room for a third battery, but so far I do not think I will need to add it…

These ship free and have a super warranty and reputation:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

This is excellent:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6629-how-to-find-happiness-with-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-solacity-article/

Other FYI:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/4812-how-to-progressive-dynamics-pd4045-lithium-upgrade/

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5270-how-to-redarc-dc-to-dc-11-amp-output-trailer-charger-installation/

If you must get running again ASAP, buy a $100 12 volt Walmart Deep Cycle battery (not AGM) and use that until you get the situation under control. Later you can sell it on Craigslist and recoup some of its cost.

John Davies

Spokane WA

John, this post has been very helpful in my search to transition to BB Lithium, especially the step by step installing the PD4045.  I was going to have a professional install but now I am going to do it myself.  Do you also have threads on installing  the BAM030712000 Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor and the. SCC110030210 SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 Charge Controller with Bluetooth?  If I remember, the Monitor just replaces the Zantrax and I just have to make a plate to mount it too and cover the larger hole left by the Zantrax.  Just wondering if anything specific about the wires to wires on either of these change?

Also,  I posted on another thread yesterday that the BB 270 amp Gamechangers will not fit unless you relocate the wiring in the battery box.  After that I decided to just stick with the 3, 100 amps.  But then reviewing this post again, I see you did relocate the wiring.  Was that difficult because you have limited space on either side of the battery box at the top?  Does the wiring come out simply by unscrewing the plastic "nuts" around the wire inside the battery box?  And I assume you drilled new holes from inside out?  I am asking because and depending on your answers, I think with your wire re configuration, you could get 2 of the 270s in there which takes it to a whole new level of DC power.  How much, I don’t know except you can run anything in the Oliver and if you don’t run the AC or microwave does that give you 5 days of power vs 2 ?  The price is significantly more because you then have to replace the inverter for another $1300 plus the extra cost of the batteries.  I am trying to figure out the cost/value proposition.  One benefit is theoretically, I would not have to run my generator to charge or run accessories.  One thought is I plan to use my Oliver to go off road at certain hunting sites and running a generator would be a noise I would not want.   Any insight you can provide would be helpful.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Going
add a bit