About to replace the AGMs in 2017 Elite II Hull 292. Do I need Lithium, with Bluetooth, or should I spend the Money for more AHs?

[Teaney Hull 292]

I have the Xantrex ProWatt SW. I just ordered the PD 4045CSV replacement board to charge the lithiums. How many BatteryAH will it handle? Or will it charge them all and just take a lot longer time?  

I’m looking at getting a minimum of 400AHs or maybe 560. 

Here is what else I have that may matter; 180 watt Zamp Portable Solar Panels & External Solar Port. I see the red wire coming in. Does it go directly to the Xantrex? I can not find the Solar Controller in the basements. 

Would like to order in the next week to have it set up for the April Rally. My AGMs are DEAD.

I appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thanks

Gary 

[Rolind]

I am not familiar with your specific setup, but in general there would be no limit on the size of the battery bank that your charger would be able to charge. We usually get about 130-150 Amps of charge from our Xantrex inverter/charger depending on the settings of the Xantrex. As you mentioned, a larger battery bank will take longer to reach full charge.

Generally Zamp external solar charge ports connect directly to the positive and ground bus bars, assuming the wiring has not been modified to connect to an internal mounted solar charge controller.  I think most if not all zamp freestanding solar panels have a built in charge controller.  If so, no other charge controller is needed. If your trailer doesn’t have rooftop solar, it likely doesn’t have a solar charge controller. 

[Galway Girl]

16 hours ago, Teaney Hull 292 said:

I have the Xantrex ProWatt SW. I just ordered the PD 4045CSV replacement board to charge the lithiums. How many BatteryAH will it handle? Or will it charge them all and just take a lot longer time?  

I’m looking at getting a minimum of 400AHs or maybe 560. 

Here is what else I have that may matter; 180 watt Zamp Portable Solar Panels & External Solar Port. I see the red wire coming in. Does it go directly to the Xantrex? I can not find the Solar Controller in the basements. 

Hopefully you were able to check which PD Charger section you currently have and order the direct replacement.  
Oliver factory either put in  a 45 or 60 amp charger.  
(Example: Our 2019 has a 60amp version - 4060CSV)

Answer: YES - you can charge as large a battery bank (Pair)  as you wish and it will simply take longer as it's only putting out 45A or 60A depending upon model.  

Example: Charge a pair of 300AH batteries (600AH total) from 50% to full charge) - you are essentially charging 300AH.

With 4045CSV best case would take 300AH divided by charge rate of 45A/Hr = 6.6 hr.  
With the 4060CSV 60A model it would be 300/60= 5hrs.
If you had a new  inverter/charger and set it up for 120Amp charging it would take 300/120 = 2.5 Hrs.

Solar Controller and charging expectations:
For your specific trailer do you have ROOF Mounted Solar Panels, or just external on the ground panels?

Roof Mounted Solar: 

If you have roof mounted solar on the roof then you should also have a ZAMP display and control panel on the wall of the trailer.
The roof mounted solar panels provide either 360W or 380W depending upon unit
Those panels on the roof connect directly to the ZAMP Charger/Control panel on the wall of the trailer and from there down to a buss bar in the basement street side...and thus to the batteries.

On the ground panels:
The Exterior ZAMP connector is connected to a buss bar which then connects with wires to the batteries.  
The solar controller is normally "with the ground panels".
If you have only one 180Watt panel you'll take a very long time to charge.

The ROOF mounted panels typically put out about 12 AMPS so to fully charge 300 AH that could take 300/12 = 25 hours with direct sun. 
A 180Watt ground panel typically will output about 6 amps in full sun and that would take 300/6 = 50 hours to charge.

What we've found with our setup with >630AH total lithium, 380Watts Solar on the Roof:

We we use about 100AH/day using all appliances, tv etc.  but NOT using the AC off the battery.
That means without any hookups we can off grid for about 6 days...before we are running low.

Hope that helps.
CS
 

 

 

 

[Teaney Hull 292]

2 hours ago, Galway Girl said:

Hopefully you were able to check which PD Charger section you currently have and order the direct replacement.  
Oliver factory either put in  a 45 or 60 amp charger.  
(Example: Our 2019 has a 60amp version - 4060CSV)

Answer: YES - you can charge as large a battery bank (Pair)  as you wish and it will simply take longer as it's only putting out 45A or 60A depending upon model.  

Example: Charge a pair of 300AH batteries (600AH total) from 50% to full charge) - you are essentially charging 300AH.

With 4045CSV best case would take 300AH divided by charge rate of 45A/Hr = 6.6 hr.  
With the 4060CSV 60A model it would be 300/60= 5hrs.
If you had a new  inverter/charger and set it up for 120Amp charging it would take 300/120 = 2.5 Hrs.

Solar Controller and charging expectations:
For your specific trailer do you have ROOF Mounted Solar Panels, or just external on the ground panels?

Roof Mounted Solar: 

If you have roof mounted solar on the roof then you should also have a ZAMP display and control panel on the wall of the trailer.
The roof mounted solar panels provide either 360W or 380W depending upon unit
Those panels on the roof connect directly to the ZAMP Charger/Control panel on the wall of the trailer and from there down to a buss bar in the basement street side...and thus to the batteries.

On the ground panels:
The Exterior ZAMP connector is connected to a buss bar which then connects with wires to the batteries.  
The solar controller is normally "with the ground panels".
If you have only one 180Watt panel you'll take a very long time to charge.

The ROOF mounted panels typically put out about 12 AMPS so to fully charge 300 AH that could take 300/12 = 25 hours with direct sun. 
A 180Watt ground panel typically will output about 6 amps in full sun and that would take 300/6 = 50 hours to charge.

What we've found with our setup with >630AH total lithium, 380Watts Solar on the Roof:

We we use about 100AH/day using all appliances, tv etc.  but NOT using the AC off the battery.
That means without any hookups we can off grid for about 6 days...before we are running low.

Hope that helps.
CS
 

 

 

 

Great info. Thanks. Here is what I have in my 2017 Hull 292; The PD 1045 Power Center. Ordered the board 4045 CVS to replace old board to allow for what I think is ramped Litium charging. I have a 180 portable Zamp solar panel. I could not find a solar controller in my basements. Know it works, because Duke, the previous owner, gave a a small portable solar panel to use when trailer is in storage. Plan on getting the Vantrex 3000. There are 2 models, 818-3010 and 818-3015 Marine. I’m guessing go with the 3010?  Installing it is way over my pay grade. Have had other owners offer to help at the Rally in April, but I think that is asking WAY too much. Will see if a local boat place has Xantrex install experience.   As I understand it, I can take out the Battery Tray, saw your post on how it’s installed when you had issues with the rivets. It will then hold the 2 280Ah batteries. May need some new cables made, put in the 4045 CSV upgrade board and I am good to go, till I get the Xantrex 3000 installed in a month or two, or three. Right?

thanks again for your help. 

Gary

[Teaney Hull 292]

18 hours ago, Rolind said:

I am not familiar with your specific setup, but in general there would be no limit on the size of the battery bank that your charger would be able to charge. We usually get about 130-150 Amps of charge from our Xantrex inverter/charger depending on the settings of the Xantrex. As you mentioned, a larger battery bank will take longer to reach full charge.

Generally Zamp external solar charge ports connect directly to the positive and ground bus bars, assuming the wiring has not been modified to connect to an internal mounted solar charge controller.  I think most if not all zamp freestanding solar panels have a built in charge controller.  If so, no other charge controller is needed. If your trailer doesn’t have rooftop solar, it likely doesn’t have a solar charge controller. 

Thanks Roland. Hope to see you at the April Ollie Rally. We are in site F27

[Galway Girl]

2 hours ago, Teaney Hull 292 said:

ay need some new cables made, put in the 4045 CSV upgrade board and I am good to go, till I get the Xantrex 3000 installed in a month or two, or three. Right?

I see now in the pix that your trailer doesn't have solar on the roof. Sorry I forgot to look closely.

Yes...you'll be good to go with new batteries that are being charged with 45A when plugged into shore power as a first step.

Future: Rewiring for new Xantrex 3000 to run your A/C

When you upgrade in the future to a Xantrex 3000 Inverter/Charger that you'll also likely be wanting to have some of the wiring swapped around to enable you to run the Air Conditioner off of the inverter and battery.  

In older units (Pre 2021) the Xantrex 2000W Inverter only unit, the AC inverter outputs are routed only to the Outlets of the trailer plus the Microwave outlet.
The older units inverter is not wired to a breaker to feed the Air Conditioner circuit.  
In the day of AGM's it wasn't really a viable option to run AC off the inverter.

Those wiring swaps will happen on installation of your new Inverter/Charger, and most changes happen on the back side of the PD4000 breaker box under the dinette.   You'll also be needing to find a location for the new Xantrex 3000 display panel once the new Inv/Charger is in place.

For future reference, here's a picture of the area under the street side bed where our Old Xantrex  inverter was and the new Inverter/Charger was placed. 
It's the exact location of our hulls original Xantrex 2000 Inverter.  

We had to remove the old inverter and install a new carrier board for the new - larger size inverter.
I could have gone with an Xantrex 3000 but did my design as a drop in replacement as opposed to a full upgrade for running the A/C off battery.

 

 

Battery Box:
You may or may not need to take out the battery tray.
It depends on the height/size of the new batteries.
In our upgrade we put in 2 - 315AH Lithionics and they fit in the tray with some spacers to take up extra space.  
Other folks that have upgraded to the larger form factor >400AH batteries have needed to remove the tray because the new batteries wouldn't fit the tray.

Final Cable Cleanup: 
At the time that you do the upgrade of the Xantrex, you may want to consider cleaning up all the various wires that come into the battery box.
This is what our 4 AGM cabling looked like at the factory.
After cleaning up and adding buss bars you'll only have big battery connection cables left in the box.
THIS is completely optional and not necessary but clearing out clutter makes troubleshooting on the road much easier.
 

 

To clean up the mess of cables you would have all the grounds run to a single buss bar (under the street side bed) and then just one ground cable to the battery box.
Likewise for the + 12V cables (red) that run out to the battery box. 

 

Good luck on your journey to Lithium.

CS

 

 

 

[Ronbrink]

11 hours ago, Galway Girl said:

In older units (Pre 2021) the Xantrex 2000W Inverter only unit, the AC inverter outputs are routed only to the Outlets of the trailer plus the Microwave outlet.
The older units inverter is not wired to a breaker to feed the Air Conditioner circuit.  
In the day of AGM's it wasn't really a viable option to run AC off the inverter.

That is correct, but @Teaney Hull 292 can install a dedicated transfer switch to run the a/c on inverter with an LFP upgrade.

[John Dorrer]

I would consider a trip to the Mothership. I'm another with very limited electrical and mechanical skills.

 

No one knows the trailer better than Oliver. 

 

Definitely get lithium batteries. Without solar on the roof, you will always being playing the AMP Game. With AGM batteries you don't want to go below 50%, and 12.3 was always our minimum in our truck camper. All it takes is dropping below the 50% one time to damage AGM's. AGM's aren't forgiving. Damage one battery and you have to replace all of them.

 

Lithiums are forgiving and will provide years of peace of mind. I would upgrade to 300w portable solar.

 

Just my 2¢.  Have a professional do the work or an Oliver Owner that knows his "S--t. Lots of good info provided by Craig (Galway Girl) and others.

Edited Tuesday at 01:33 PM by John Dorrer
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