taylor.coyote

John, Thank you for sharing your experience and this is very thoughtful information. For sure, I'm going forward with the undercarriage gravel guards and mud flaps. I'm sold on the functionality and performance of the stompers but need to sleep on it. Seems another level of fabrication skills is needed to set up stompers plus futzing factor makes me pause. your point about camping "hooked up" mitigates some of this as we too camp "hooked up" good share of the time. You are correct about the AT3's being rock flingers. Darn, thought this was just the ways it is when off road. I'm a day late on this one. the Aussi wind screen guards mentioned.. do you mean like the image below?

John, thank you for your thoughtful post/reply on this topic a couple of days ago. I like what you have done with the gravel-guards. You have covered the sub frame gravel-guards pretty well but i have few questions: you defined the size and the ground clearance will be the result of the size. can you give a rough guideline for the resulting ground clearance from the bottom of the guard to the ground? the reason i ask is many roads have much of the gravel in crowns between the tire groves worn in the road. I want to insure the guards are not dragging on the crowns and contributing kicking up more gravel. I had this issue with tampers. I set up my hitch / truck hight before fully loading my truck that includes a 30gal water tank. needless to say, the truck squatted a little thus contributing to the the tampers taking rocks off the gravel crowns. you have made a significant effort to keep steel components away from the Aluminum frame, why are you not using Aluminum fasteners? i'm thinking the open gap in the front of the rear bumper needs some protection. the inside of my bumper is filled with rocks and grit.. do you have any thoughts? ---- Questions and thoughts about your stompers.. I see the value of the stompers and what i perceive to have has solved the rock problem. Even as a proven solution I'm struggling with what I perceive to be a lot of extra stuff to "futz with". I can’t see myself dealing with all that stuff to hitch and unhitch each time, maintaining and carrying extra service parts. when i had my 1/2 ton truck, i hated dealing with the extra stuff using the Anderson weight distribution hitch. I used the hitch because i think it was the best in-class and I really needed it. I like the gravel guards because they seem to be a good solution with a one-time investment on the front-end doing the installation. Once together, just use it with a small amount of maintenance required. If push come to shove, I'm not unwilling to use stompers if it is the only way to get good rock protection. I'm still seeking a solution that does not require dealing with it every time the trailer is hitch and unhitched. The Oliver owner calling himself "bugeyeddriver" seems to be satisfied with the Vortext coating with a few limitations. I'm inclined to try using Line-X (no experienced Vortext guys near by) with good mud-flaps on the truck + modified Tampes (close of the gap between the flaps), open tread tires with next tires before sub-coming to managing a Stomper system. I have read pretty much all that has been written in the forum on rock protection. Knowing my aversion to managing a stomper system, do you have any general advice or things I should consider before pulling the trigger? Unfortunately, I just purchased a new set of Cooper AT3's. This is my third set and I really love the way they handle on and off road and they last 55K+. I thought all tires threw rocks and it was just part of being off road until you mentioned mud/open tread tire throw a lot fewer rocks. Makes a lot of since now you have brought to my attention. Unfortunately, I just purchased a new set of Cooper AT3's. This is my third set and I really love the way they handle on and off road and they last 50K+. I thought all tires throw rocks and it was just part of being off road until you mentioned mud/open tread tire throw a lot fewer rocks. Makes a lot of since now you have brought to my attention.

Please tell us more about your Vortex coating process. Do you perceive Vortext to be similar to to Line-X coating material? why did you choose Vortext over other pick-up bed liner material? Did you choose the skill/trailer/fiberglass experience of the installer as the primary reason to go with your coating process? did you have a special application of more layers/thicker than the standard that is done to pick-up bed application? the cost to line pick-up beds for Votext range from $500-$700 in California. the prices I have heard for Vortext trailer applications have ranged to $3k+. Do you know why trailer applications has such a large price difference from pick-up bed applications? please tell us about the color matching process.

John, thank you for your thoughtful post/reply on this topic a couple of days ago. I like what you have done with the gravel-guards. You have covered the sub frame gravel-guards pretty well but i have few questions: you defined the size and the ground clearance will be the result of the size. can you give a rough guideline for the resulting ground clearance from the bottom of the guard to the ground? the reason i ask is many roads have much of the gravel in crowns between the tire groves worn in the road. I want to insure the guards are not dragging on the crowns and contributing kicking up more gravel. I had this issue with tampers. I set up my hitch / truck hight before fully loading my truck that includes a 30gal water tank. needless to say, the truck squatted a little thus contributing to the the tampers taking rocks off the gravel crowns. you have made a significant effort to keep steel components away from the Aluminum frame, why are you not using Aluminum fasteners? i'm thinking the open gap in the front of the rear bumper needs some protection. the inside of my bumper is filled with rocks and grit.. do you have any thoughts? ---- Questions and thoughts about your stompers.. I see the value of the stompers and what i perceive to have has solved the rock problem. Even as a proven solution I'm struggling with what I perceive to be a lot of extra stuff to "futz with". I can’t see myself dealing with all that stuff to hitch and unhitch each time, maintaining and carrying extra service parts. when i had my 1/2 ton truck, i hated dealing with the extra stuff using the Anderson weight distribution hitch. I used the hitch because i think it was the best in-class and I really needed it. I like the gravel guards because they seem to be a good solution with a one-time investment on the front-end doing the installation. Once together, just use it with a small amount of maintenance required. If push come to shove, I'm not unwilling to use stompers if it is the only way to get good rock protection. I'm still seeking a solution that does not require dealing with it every time the trailer is hitch and unhitched. The Oliver owner calling himself "bugeyeddriver" seems to be satisfied with the Vortext coating with a few limitations. I'm inclined to try using Line-X (no experienced Vortext guys near by) with good mud-flaps on the truck + modified Tampes (close of the gap between the flaps), open tread tires with next tires before sub-coming to managing a Stomper system. I have read pretty much all that has been written in the forum on rock protection. Knowing my aversion to managing a stomper system, do you have any general advice or things I should consider before pulling the trigger? Unfortunately, I just purchased a new set of Cooper AT3's. This is my third set and I really love the way they handle on and off road and they last 55K+. I thought all tires threw rocks and it was just part of being off road until you mentioned mud/open tread tire throw a lot fewer rocks. Makes a lot of since now you have brought to my attention.

John, thank you for the thoughtful post. I will attempt to contact you directly so I don't hijack Bobfist's original post regarding film and coatings.

I'm new to this party and understand value of the items everyone is requesting. it's clear that Oliver is good at making and delivering about 150+/- very big ticket items and not set up to encourage or manage a large number of small ticket transactions. I have yet to visit the factory but from afar it's pretty safe to assume this needs to be considered and budgeted as a marketing expense. Yep an expense. Even if they take fat margins on these items, they will mostly likely be financial losers because of a lack of infrastructure for this very different kind of business activity. Yep an activity with great feel good and good will affirming value for all involved. This said, I think it's time for them to find a way to put their toe in water, keep it simple and have available a few good quality items. I might suggest they consider outsourcing the inventory, transaction / fulfillment to a third party that good at managing larger volume, small ticket business activities so the folks at Oliver can focus on their core strengths and keep making great trailers.

Landover, Do you feel a "graphic wrap" + tampers provide protection good enough for an Alaskan trip ?

We doing the same investigations as we spend 50% + time on gravel. We are using Rock Tampers and they help but don't get the job done for us. There is a lot posted about clear 3m film and the like but we would like more protection than film can provide and a permanent low to no-maintenance solution. Vortext and Line-x spay on pickup bed liner materails are high on our list as a possibility. The Vortex looks really nice but there are no suppliers within a reasonable distance of our home and the cost is $3k+. We met with our local Line-x dealer last week that has done a great job on two of our pickups about spraying a "mask" on our Oliver. He has done several trailers (fiberglass and Alu) and said has had good bonding and overall durability with the Line-x process on fiberglass trailers. We were told "Line-x's boding to fiberglass is more than sufficient for the application/function of heavy duty rock protection. This said, it will not be as "bomb proof" as are applications on steel or aluminum pick-up beds. You can throw hammers onto Line-x in the bed of a pick-up with little if any damage. " We were quoted $800 for a full front mask (tongue to lower front marker lights to the bottom of shell seam). We discussed black but Line-x offers color matching so will follow up to see if white is a line-x option. We have yet to pull the trigger and are interested in what everyone will have to say about vortex vs line-X vs other film/coating options per Bobfirst's post.

The Alu pop rivet head failed on one corner that secures the tray to the slides and the tray collapsed on one side. I have wet batteries so had a mess to clean up with some spilled liquid. Now i'm seeing the wisdom of dry cells for off road travel. It was and easy fix. Replaced all of the alu pop-rivets with stainless steel bolts / nylock bolts with washers on both sides.. if you are doing off road driving, i would recommend checking or even proactively replacing these soft pop-rivets. after this, my greater concern is the weight of 4 batteries (250LB+) and how the slides are bolted to the trailer when off road.. i have already snugged up the space where the tray latch can rattle with some alu L channel but wanted to know if anyone knows how / and what the battery slides are fastened to under the fiberglass. your thought will be appreciated

pulled both duct hoses (both sides) and ran the furnace.. plenty of heat but no air blowing.. we will be home in two days and getting to warmer weather. talked with my rv repair guys and have the trailer set for them to help me with the heat issue. thanks to all

all the vents are open and i have checked to see they are hooked up to the furnace. we do get the sound of a fan but nothing blowing through the vents. have checked for separate fuse but seems the furnace is all on one 7.5 amp fuse. the various times i have tried to get heat/air flowing through the vents, my batteries have been between 12.4-12.7 the furnace is clearly working because its very, very warm in the hull under the bed. it becomes so warm in the hull under the bed that Im concerned it's a safety issue and have stop running the furnace. seems that either the fan is not working (but it makes a significant sound like a fan) or something is plugged in the ducting... maybe we have a critter nesting in the ducts.. thanks for the tips but none have solved the issue.. please let me know if you have any other ideas

camping off the grid in the cold (17-20 degrees in mornings). furnace lites and generates a great deal of heat in the hull cabinet but does not blow air through the ducts/vents. we can get more heat into the trailer by taking off the mattress and taking off the fiberglass hull lids under the bed. this brings more heat into the trailer than is coming from the vents.. i'm assuming the furnace has a fan that is not running.. adjusting the fan speed at the thermostat does nothing. any suggestions on how to get our furnace fan to run?

Raspy, thank you for the detailed tire information. what do you use to put air back in the tires after airing down for rough off roads?

Raspy, thank you for the detailed tire information. one question. what do you use to put air bak in the tires after airing down for rough off roads?

Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and coaching. In case you are interested, I have found a company that will make up customized water tanks. They will install the ports to your liking (type of port and locations) in a selection of various tanks. The turnaround time is 7-10 days and the cost including freight is very reasonable. Zach is the tank expert and a great guy. https://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/water-tanks-s/218.htm

I'm investigating putting together a vented fresh water tank to carry boondocking water in the bed of my truck instead of carrying multiple 5-gallon water cans. The bottom of the truck tank will be above the top of the trailer tank with the goal to use gravity instead of a pump to refill the trailer tank with a hose connection. To do this the trailer tank needs to fill unobstructed into the top of the trailer tank. The Legacy II trailer tank fill hose input nozzle is located below the trailer tank. Does anyone know how/where the fresh water tank fill line is plumbed from the input point and where it enters the freshwater tank? Does the input plumbing tap into the bottom of the tank and fill from the bottom? Does the input pluming tap into the top of the tank and fill from the top? Does the input plumbing have a check value or a device that prevents back flow between the tank and hose nozzle? My first desire would be to empty the truck tank into the trailer and be done with moving water. If the above proves to be problematic, would it be possible to use the boondocking freshwater input nozzle / pump to “draw” water directly from the truck tank with a short hose connection? If this method valid, is my assumption correct that the truck tank will not fill the trailer tank but would supply water to the trailer system as long as the truck tank is linked by a hose to the boondocking input? In this case, I suppose the shorter the hose the better. Your knowledge and thoughts will be appreciated

Hello all, Thanks for sharing your expertise and the coaching. The ride is much better but seem more room for improvement. Actions taken: tire pressure now at 55/trailer 60/truck repacked bearings Ground tested good Installed Heavy Duty Dexter suspension kit with grease-able bushings and better shackles the old nylon bushings were toast but but the other parts such as the bolts had only modest wear all other suspension parts such as shocks, springs and attachments to frame are in good shape bulldog hitch solid on frame trailer tongue about 1/2" down from level standard 2" ball hitch Trailer tows much better and tugs less but still more than I think it should when towing with an F250. Took a 30 mile test drive with the new Dexter Hd kit installed, about 500-600 lbs load in the truck bed and put weight in the trailer 's closet to insure good tongue weight. All this and we still experience a more than subtle tugging up and down when traveling over dips and rises in the road on a normal country highway. We do have an improved ride that we can live with as long as all is safe. When towing I feel like i'm having to "work a little to drive the load vs just towing a load". On completely smooth sections of road we don't know we are pulling a trailer. Towing still does not seem right based on towing a few other trailers and driving a truck that weighs 8,000 lbs. Any thoughts?

Hello guys, One last question. The link you have given me for the Dexter parts is https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Leaf-Spring-Suspension/Dexter-Axle/K71-359-00.html this kit has brass bushing but not the kit that has the equalizers with the shock system. What kit would do the best job. I want to fix this and put in the rear view mirror. If you think the kit with the shock is best can you please be so kind as to give me a link so I get the correct parts the first time. best

ok guys.. I'm bought into the following: I will test the ground first Lower the pressure on both rigs. hopefully the truck's nanny alarm will not be a pain Upgrade the old Dexter with the HD Dexter kit even if the grounding turns out to be problematic likely will replace the truck's rear shocks with something adjustable as the truck's rear is very light and stiff (3,120 lbs vs front at 4,880 lbs) I have never done suspension work. I'm not a pro with tools but reasonably handy, have a shop and a good assortment of tools. Do the parts go together easily or will I have to wrestle them onto place? Is this work something I can do if I'm prepared to skin my knuckles and some grunt work or should I sign up to pay a shop? Thanks so much for all the coaching. Your collective experience is amazing. Hopefully this will make the trailer agile and my truck a better ride. Best to all, Chris Chadwick (All my friends call me Chad) <table id="table-6644" class="pp-table-59f89d0644ff2 pp-table-content tablesaw tablesaw-stack" style="height: 5px;" width="5" data-tablesaw-mode="stack" data-tablesaw-minimap=""> <tbody> <tr class="pp-table-row odd"> <td></td> <td></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Wow, You guys are really good. lots of great ideas... after digesting your coaching, let me give you more information. facts: 2" factory bulldog / all hitch bolts tight/solid tires are inflated hard on the trailer (70 lbs) and truck (70 front / 65 rear).. i plan to make adjustment going forward per your coaching trailer is very near level in all applications all hitch parts of solid on the trailer F250 has stock springs with towing package and no air bags or helper springs the current drop is 2" and the f250 has stock 18" wheels I will not toss out the issue is to do with the truck entirely but i think our focus needs to be on the trailer. I'm choose to focus here because I have now towed the trailer with two trucks. One is a Tundra and the other is the f250. The surging /tugging is much more evident with the Tundra (with Anderson hitch) than the F250 but is clearly present with both trucks. The Tundra had a tight fit with the 2" receiver / ball insert. The f250 (no Anderson hitch) has a 2.5" receiver and using spacer to shim to fit a 2" ball tongue. the f250 does have some "play". So let's talk about the trailer's history. The trailer has been towed across the country on a couple of long trips plus a few regional trips. The trailer sit on the original factory Michelins that have almost all of the the original tread depth. It was mostly towed from RV park to RV park with very little if any off-pavement action. The trailer has been in mothballs in a barn for the last two years (wife did not care for the trailer travel much). Evidence of this was antifreeze in the water systems and dry / dead battery cells. The trailer is incredibly clean (body glass and throughout the inside). All of this said, when the owner prepped the trailer for a 600 mile trip for him to deliver the trailer to me, he discover the rubber bushings at the bottom of the shocks had been installed from the factory without washers between the bottom of the shocks and top of lower bushings. The shocks had wedged themselves almost the way through the lower bushings. I promptly took the trailer to a suspension shop to have the bushing replaced/installed correctly and the shock checked for damage. The shocks were deemed to be good shape and all of the bushings were replaced plus the bearings were repacked. At this time we did not know about surging/tugging and did not have concern about the suspension and did not call out for a full inspection. This said, the tech that did the work to replace the bushings had his hands all over the other suspension components when replacing the bushings. I would think he would have noticed if anything was damaged or not normal. I don't know much about suspension but I just went out and put my hand on all of the suspension parts. All are solid and in apparent good condition. The springs are properly sprung and solid. The shackles have not flipped. One observation was both equalizes are tilted forward with then front of the triangle lower than the back making the shackle angels less than a 90 degree angle to one set of axle springs and more than 90 degrees on the other set of axle springs. I'm assuming they move dynamically and this position is normal based on the trailer sitting on a forward sloping slab with the front jack up high to level the trailer. The springs and shackles do have some modest corrosion but nothing that would be of concern. The suspension looks like it could use some grease but i don't see any grease zerks My equalizers are just metal triangles w/three bolt holes without any bushings and no apparent place to grease or service them. They do not look like the image of the equalizers that have rubber bushings that on the Oliver website.. regarding the brake grounding. I had an auto electric shop review all the wiring including the ground as the next stop for after the shock work. this said i will double check the ground wire per the link that was shared. Nothing appears to be damaged or loose and all seems to be in good shape and the wiring has been inspected. The trailer has been towed with by two trucks/ two brake controllers with basically the same poor towing experience. I have yet to tow with lower the tire pressure and double check the ground wiring. Aside from this, do you have other ideas or do you think i have wrongly overlook any of your suggestions? Montana is calling and I might get sea sick towing this tub.

This is my first post. I recently purchased hull #124, a gently used 2016 Legacy ll. We took a short 300-mile two day round trip as s shake down first outing. The advice i seek is to improve the towing ride. I’m towing with a 2019 F250 diesel 4×4 short box, standard 18″ wheels/rubber with a tow package. The dry empty trailer hitched to the empty truck sits with the rear of the trailer about 1/4 – 1/2 inch lower than the hitch. I attempted to set up the hitch to be slightly lower that the rear with a variety of different combinations of drop balls but this always resulted in the hitch being two or more inches below the rear. Thus, decided upon the before mentioned set up of the hitch 1/4 – 1/2 inch higher than the rear of a dry trailer/empty truck. I’m towing with a standard hitch although tried to use an Anderson weight distribution hitch. The truck’s anti-sway automatically “defaulted to on” every time the truck is turned off and re-started. Each time the “on” default needed to be manually turned off. This is a pain and a possible safety issue when the truck’s anti-sway corrections are fighting the hitch’s corrections. Now that you know the background and set-up: The issue I’m experiencing with both the Anderson and the standard hitch is the trailer bucks more than I think it should with a truck this size. The bucking does not push the truck around but is a noticeable and annoying up and down “tugging” on a frequent basis when traveling over dips and rises in the road. I don’t know the hitch weight but the hitch’s weight makes my truck squat an inch+ when dropping the trailer on t0 the ball. Additionally, I moved most everything heavy that was in the trailer into the closet midway through the trip thinking the hitch might be too light. Moving the weight forward did not improve the “tugging”. The trailer wet and loaded for the trip weighed 5,200 lbs (trailer hitched to truck with just the trailer wheels on the scales). After reading how well Olivers tow, I was under the impression that we would hardly know we were towing a trailer with truck the size of an F250. Clearly, we know the trailer is attached every time it makes an annoying “tug”. This feel a lot like too much weight behind the axle or exceeding the GCWR or payload. I’m sure the load is well within the truck’s capabilities and 95% certain the hitch weight is ok but have not actually weighed the hitch. Is this normal or are my expectations too high? Have I missed something on the set up? Your input will be greatly appreciated