ahattar

What a bunch of thugs those moderators are! 😀

I will post what I can when everything is finalized and I know the ball is rolling. I will be moving on from the brand and Oliver will be helping me do that. I'm trying to be as reasonable as possible and I'm confident they'll do the same. More to come later, thanks.

I went to the only repair shop that would agree to work on an oliver trailer. They didn't do a bad job. They took pics and updated me daily. Most of the frustration with them came after the guy fell off the ladder and scratched the trailer, but it had to be sent to another store for the fix so even that wasn't their fault. Having the dealer, the fiberglass repair and Oliver was just a case of too many cooks. Anyway, regardless of whether or not somebody has posted about this issue, it is a very well known issue within the company. The design is very poor in that in order to properly maintain the penetration that gets hammered by sun and pooling water, you have to remove the awning, the brackets, clean and re-seal.....just as you said. Thats when people fall off ladders and open worm cans. You can choose to remove the bulb seal to solve the pooling water, but now you have rain pouring down the side defeating the purpose of the awning all together. Regardless, you're missing the point in the fact that this problem exists at all on a brand new rig. Oliver chooses not to have a dealer network representing their product, as far as I'm concerned, the dealer they choose to work on the trailer may as well have an Oliver sign out front. Oliver saves a boat load of money by going direct to consumer, this is a cost of doing business and they should take complete responsibility for any come-backs. Instead, they try to wash their hands of any issues and make the dealership own it. Not a great way to build your network in my opinion. I have no doubt my dealer would go back in and work on the leak because they seem like good folks, but I can guarantee they would not work on the next problem. Then we're back to having zero dealers in Montana. If you have an established dealer willing to tough it out, maybe things are different for you.

Perfection is not the goal as I've stated numerous times but if I'm going to pay 3x's the price of a standard trailer, it should at least be pretty darn good. I don't consider Airstream the competition just because its the most overpriced trailer out there and I would never consider owning one. Point is, the bulb seal causes leaks, the penetrations in the Olivers hull are not sealed with any sort of "ingenuity" and Oliver continues to repeat the same installations knowing its causing leaks. I guess I'm the only one here that believes if I purchase a "premium" product, I shouldn't need to tinker with it non-stop just to stay dry inside and under my awning outside for that matter. I didn't buy an Oliver to sit at home in the shop and polish it all day. Its a tool just like my last several RV's. I was hoping it would be close to a Festool but turns out its a better than average Ridgid or something! Don't worry, even my Festool products aren't perfect:)

Final update: Oliver is stepping up to make things right so we can all move on. We're all disappointed but its for the best at this point. Take care.

Leaks are frustrating:)

ScubaRX for president!

Ok, weeks later got my trailer back. Wasn't the smoothest process getting the gel coat from Oliver which ultimately delayed things 10 days. Part Covid part poor communication. Ultimately though the repairs look good. I'm definitely not happy with the entire situation but at the end of the day I believe in the people at Oliver still. One of the owners reached out and was very understanding of my frustration and I don't get the feeling he was just humoring me. I will leave it at this. My Service Writer made it a point to say how helpful Jason in service was during the process. They are a Keystone/Lance dealer and said there is zero chance any of those companies would have been as helpful and probably would have just laughed at them if they asked for help. So, even though the dealer knows Oliver might have some QC issues, they are at least impressed with how they resolve the issues. Take care.

Ok, so a residential mini split. I installed a Fujitsu in my guest house a couple of years ago. Problem is the exterior unit is huge to be carrying around. I haven't seen any small versions but I've never looked. Other problem is when you need heat the most, the sun is generally not out for very long. I just don't see how you could power it in cold temps. I've installed wood stoves in a truck camper and my last 18' trailer. That has been by far the best solution for cold weather camping. I've spent only 3 weeks in my Oliver so far and it was barely below freezing and I was already missing my stoves. Keeps everything super dry, so no condensation. Its warm enough to sleep with fresh air coming in. No power, no fuel, silent. You can put a small log in, go hunting or rafting all day then come home to a warm camper with a pot of stew ready to eat. Problem is it takes up a lot of space.

Not all Aussie suspension is super robust. Cruisemaster makes an independent setup for highway use and one for like fire road type stuff. I think you might be surprised on pricing. You don't have to get crazy burly articulating setups. They come with the choice of drum or disc too. https://cruisemaster.com.au/cruisemaster-crs2/ Nice thing about a totally separate water tank for us is that we often pump out of rivers. 9 out of 10 camp spots for us are on the water. Having them completely separate would allow you to use your UV filter less for drinking water. In the current 32 gallon fresh tank you'd pump from rivers through a simple two stage filter and then just add a little bleach. You can use that tank for showers, sinks, dishes, etc. That Revel ladder system does look cool, good call. I don't know if I'll make it moveable until I see how much room is up there. I'm hoping to design it to where I could climb up the back and walk around up there. Can you elaborate on the heat pump? How does that get the A/C off the roof? Holly crap, I plugged in for a second and turned on the furnace and the roof unit came on I guess because I didn't have the fan on the thermostat set to auto. Its so damb loud it almost seems unusable anyway.

I looked at the Brueder too but decided I couldn't justify it because it wouldn't really fit my needs. I think the Kedron Caravans look the biz if I'm making a wish list. Problem is none of the Ausi trailers are good in the cold. My plan is to make the Oliver handle rough dirt roads and the occasional pucker worthy obstacles. The Cruisemaster XT with airbags should be pretty great as well as their hitch. If we weren't planning to travel full time for a few years, I would have bought a shorter trailer but as you know there aren't a lot of choices. I could see taking an 18' trailer just about anywhere. I'm lucky enough to have a full fab shop at my disposal with CNC tubing benders, press breaks, mills and everything else a little boy could wish for. I'd be curious to hear about the designs in your head, maybe we can build them. Should be pretty fun doing the aluminum work, I think the Oliver is going to take on a pretty mean look and be a pretty darn functional basecamp. I'll shoot and cut a bunch of video while we build it so if any Oliver owners like what they see I'm sure my friend would build it in his offseason. https://www.recretec.com/why-recretec

That's what they think but I won't confirm until I get it back and have no leaks for a while. It's what we originally thought it was but they also removed and reinstalled the window to make sure. When the window was removed they hose tested the awning brackets and could see the water coming down between the shells at the window opening. That silly bulb seal design causes water to pool on the brackets so that had to be replaced. The dealer says they did it twice because the water was pooling instead of draining off to one end. The second try is when he fell off the ladder. I'm not sure it can be installed to do as they say but I'll know when I get it back.

Just an update to this per Overlands request. Oliver is still working to get things sorted. I'm going to do my best to give them the benefit of the doubt as long as they value my time and hassle with all of this. One of the Olivers called me yesterday which shows effort so I'll call him back on Monday. The leak is supposedly fixed but I still haven't been able to get the trailer back because the guy fell off the ladder when he was putting my awning back on. Scratched up the side of the trailer so now its been in the body shop for a week. Can't blame Oliver but these are the kinds of things that happen when the unit goes in for service when it shouldn't have needed to. Trickle down effects of missed QC. Thats all I got, now going on 3 weeks without the trailer with one canceled trip already.

I've seen many of you ask for better suspension, hitches, etc. to make this thing more like an Aussie trailer, why hasn't anyone done it? Who would pay more if Oliver had some of this stuff as options? Suspension: Cruisemaster components are used on a lot of the top Australian caravans (check out Zone RV) and we can get the stuff in the US fairly easily. The fact that Oliver uses a steel subframe that bolts to the aluminum chassis actually makes it a fairly simple build as long as you can jig it up to get it aligned properly. https://cruisemaster.com.au/suspensions/ Obviously the offroad handling would be better and your trailer would last longer but other game changers with airbags....raise ride height when you need it, lower it on the highway for stability and stop looking for perfectly level camp sites. Just push a button and level with air. Hitch: I know some of you have used Mchitch but you can get a Cruisemaster that looks great for $350. https://cruisemaster.com.au/cruisemaster-do35/ Tongue Exterior Storage: Ditch the fiberglass propane enclosure and build something useful out of aluminum. Dry exterior storage that doesn't effect turning radius. BBQ slide out, genset slideout, jerry can storage, tool storage, etc. Rear Bumper: Ditch the fiberglass tire cover, build a swing out spare tire holder on one side with a fold out table on the back. Aluminum swing out drybox on the other side with whatever you want but a basic exterior kitchen with more fold down table space is in my future. Configuration would be endless here. Above all that would be a ladder to the roof and bike rack. Bike rack could also go above the tongue box. Roof: Rear ladder goes to a aluminum roof rack and more dryboxes. Roof rack would use existing awning and solar mounts so no new holes to waterproof. Build long shallow boxes with solar panels attached to the tops. Add more panels if needed. Finished height would be below A/C unit. I would use this storage for all the gear you don't use on a daily basis like seasonal or gear you can't use in certain locations. When you're traveling full time there are things you won't use for months that you still want to have. Water: Remove black water tank and install fresh drinking water tank not connected to factory fresh tank. Install separate water pump and run it through UV filter then drinking water spout on kitchen sink. As far as I can tell the bathroom floor is just caulked in place. You could wire both pumps to a single switch I'm sure so no difference in how things work. Rain catchment to the main fresh tank anyone? More capable pump so you can take river water from more than 2ft away? Dust: Dometic makes a lot of cool stuff, just not for the US market cause Americans buy garbage campers. https://www.dometic.com/en-au/au/products/climate/ventilation/vents/dometic-dust-reduction-system-_-225606 Diesel: Get rid of propane all together? Diesel heat, water heater and stove just like Earthroamer does. You could add the fuel tank to the tongue storage box. A compressor fridge? Lithium: Lots of it. Thats what I've got off the top of my head, any additional ideas? Try to keep the fear mongering out of this (world has enough of that right now) and just assume everyone is smart enough to balance their loads and not do anything stupid. Just ideas on how to make the Oliver a more useful extended boondocking machine. You could include mods to your tow vehicle too. I'm planning to either buy a F250 tremor or if Dodge gets off their asses and adds a 10 spd tranny, I'll build an AEV Ram 2500. Everyone carries different stuff of course. The corona economy is going to collapse guys, its on you to spend all your money, its the American thing to do!

I appreciate your honesty and opinion overland. I guess my problem is I didn't sign up to be an experiment like probably a lot of the early buyers did. I was not compensated in the form of a discount, I purchased a premium priced trailer with no dealer network. I'm sure the early units cost quite a bit less. I guess it just comes down to if it was anything other than a sizeable water leak, it probably would have been annoying but palatable. The other things like step pieces falling off or broken fiberglass trim pieces or the floor bubbling up, etc, etc. can all be forgiven but you still go away not believing that Oliver actually wants to deliver on their message of quality. True or not, that's how it will come across to most buyers like me that have had several RVs and watched them fall apart. That's why this is the first new RV I've ever purchased. Again, I still think it's the best quality RV available but Oliver needs to decide if they want to be a company that moves the needle or just good enough to say they're better than everyone else. They're is a lot of room for improvement and I'm sure I'll still fabricate a bunch of cool stuff and make mods to the design, it just comes down to me not being a good ambassador to the brand which Oliver should care deeply about. If I were them, I'd buyback the unit and resell it. Resale is good enough they could probably still make money. Ok I'm done with this, I don't want it to actually start to sound like complaining or me trying to sour people on the brand. People are smart enough to make their own decisions. Let's assume Oliver fixes all issues as I'm sure they will. If they go above and beyond I will post it here, otherwise, take care.

Again, nobody expected perfection, just a camper that keeps me as dry as one of my tents! I also don't see this as complaining, more of an informative post so maybe those who do expect perfection now won't. Also, at 600 units, the vast majority is a phrase that might not be useable. The small sample size and almost everyone on this post having some sort of quality control issues might be an alarming statistic. Should be anyway. My $70k

I think this is almost like a political conversation at this point. There are those who are just trying to be objective and get to better results for the benefit of all parties, then there are those that are so emotionally charged that no ill can ever be spoken. Oliver has made folks feel like family which is great, but families argue when someone is not pulling their weight or even worse they are passive aggressive and they never speak again. Again, I know Oliver is watching, should be interesting to see if they reach out or if they just hide behind Jason in service. I'm only posting because I want future and current buyers to see that it's not all pretty. I wish I had seen a post like this. I'm not even sure it would have changed my mind, but definitely my expectations.

I'd be less happy losing 10k after one trip unfortunately. Is what it is at this point, I just won't be able to fully recommend the brand to folks. Funny thing is the day before I found the leak, I showed the trailer to a couple that ended up putting a deposit down. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if we discovered it together. Lucky Oliver.

I'll leave it at this. The number one reason I would bet a lot of us spent the money on an Oliver is because you want a trailer that doesn't leak. Mine leaks at least a cup of water in a 10 minute rain. Now add to that all the other little annoying issues after literally the only reason I bought the trailer failed me. The issues are compounded. It's embarrassing every time a neighbor asks where my trailer is and I tell them I spent 70k on a trailer that leaks, it's been at the dealership for weeks. The dealer who sells other brands now knows Oliver leaks and has quality control issues, how can that help the reputation? You can continue to think these are just little things that get resolved and everyone moves on, but there will always be consequences from poor quality control. If you take a small business to court and lose, everyone in that courtroom still saw that a customer took them to court, they don't come out unscathed. If the leak isn't totally fixed when I get it back, I will push hard for a buyback. As far as I'm concerned one chance is all they get to fix an issue like this so soon after purchase.

I didn't expect perfection, but I sure did expect it to stay dry inside! Ok, I take it back, they are in a league of their own. RV industry is amateur, Oliver is semi-pro but none of them are true professionals. The bar is set so ridiculously low, so even comparing themselves to the competition is silly. I understand you guys have great pride in your trailers and the people that built them, believe it or not I still like mine. Unfortunately by continuing to let them off the hook for avoidable quality issues, you'll just end up enabling them to take advantage of customers. Oliver and I are not in this together because they have my money. I'm a tough love guy, I'm not saying to beat your kids but you better be damn sure to set some strong boundaries if you want to instill discipline. These are bush league mistakes and they go deeper than a checklist in a factory. If you want Oliver to be around, you better help them set a new bar and actually become pros. That's what I'm trying to do, hold them accountable which a good company would thank me for. They have the stones to host a forum, I'd imagine they have the courage to take a hard look in the mirror when it's not all roses and butterflies. Yes, it's still the best quality trailer on the American market including black series, but if they're consistently having issues right off the line they will quickly destroy their own reputation no matter how petty the issues might be.

I understand your view, but when is it going to be a fair assessment? What needs to go wrong when we get to the point where Oliver doesn't get the benefit of the doubt? When do we stop letting them off the hook for their suppliers products being faulty just because it's the rv industry? Seems to me you buy an Oliver because you are tired of the RV industry. At what point should the customer be compensated for their time driving hours to a dealership for obvious quality control issues not one off flukes that can be tolerated? Mine left the factory with issues and now I'm burdened with logistics and time without my trailer, why is that free to Oliver? I'm not trying to be bitter, I think I'm being completely fair. At the end of the day, Oliver is a business and should be treated as one. Just because service ultimately gets you taken care of doesn't mean everything is forgotten or fair. They are good people and I believe smart enough to take my thoughts seriously without emotion, I'm not just bashing them because of anger. I genuinely believe their product hasn't lived up to their own standards and I'm obviously not the only one, how they handle it will be their test. I personally don't like working for free to help with issues on a trailer I just purchased for 70k. I'm not going to do a review. It's very simple, it has a sizeable water leak coming from the roof and several other issues that could get more costly if left alone. Jason is working with the dealer to get the leak resolved. Just because he is a solid dude working to clean up after sales and production doesn't mean the company should be let off the hook.

So it's maybe 1500 miles from Oliver to this guys house. Do you think a 70k trailers lights and electrical should completely stop working after that time? I understand people love the folks at Oliver and the product, but that shouldn't get them off the hook for these issues.

Its as simple as this, Oliver sets the expectations of perfection but when things aren't perfect they expect the customer to swallow the burden of expense and headache, warranty or not. They won't give you a penny off when purchasing because they believe they have a premium product, which is a great business model if you deliver on expectations. I used to sell very expensive new motorcycles that almost never got discounted because we believed our service and premium product was worth the retail price, so I understand the high end retail business and we were the top dealer in the world for years. No matter how "premium" something is, you will have issues every now and then. The difference though is when we had issues, we treated the burden on the customer as a cost of business. Customer acquisition is way too expensive and word of mouth customer referral business is way too valuable. For example, this thread I guarantee has already cost them sales regardless of the Oliver fans jumping in to say good things. Had I seen any posts like this, there probably would have been enough doubt that I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Oliver is being good about helping the dealer fix the issues on my unit (#580-something), there is a major one and at least 15 minor ones, but apology after apology gets old and doesn't compensate me for my time and trouble. I'm not some Oliver fanboy, I'm a guy that hoped he was buying a premium product at full price but in one trip I've had more issues than all my previous RV's combined. Oliver is trying to create a culture of extremely satisfied customers just like Harley Davidson did, which was very lucrative. American consumers can be laughably brand loyal and good companies exploit that. In my business our motto was literally "Everybody wants to belong" and we provided the environment. Problem is, quality control can very quickly spoil that business model and as soon as it feels fake your customers and staff will not buy in and the thing will come crashing down. I know Oliver is reading these posts, I just hope they evaluate more than the quality control issues. Jason is great and has been very responsive, Cindy is bitter, rude and doesn't know how to communicate so I avoid her completely. I'm sure thats not the case for everyone, I guess shes just not my flavor. That said, once the issues are fixed, I still believe its a pretty cool camper. If it wasn't 70k I would have no issue fixing minor issues here and there in the future or even now when its brand new. Problem is the confidence I've lost in the product has me contemplating selling it because regardless of how responsive Jason is in getting issue after issue sorted, I don't know that I'll ever feel valued as a customer. I understand its still an RV at the end of the day but if Oliver wants to compare themselves to other OEM's they won't be around to fix any lifetime warranty issues down the line. Just getting warranty issues fixed for the customer is in no way going above and beyond and if they think it is, they have a major problem with leadership in the customer service department. So, my review after one trip in one sentence: Oliver, better than most, but by no means in a league of their own.

Overland has some top notch memory. I installed an Airhead years ago in my truck camper and there were things I liked better but there are some things on the NH that are better too. Overall, its probably a toss up. I actually just got back from my first 3 weeks in the Oliver so the comparisons are pretty fresh in my head. Two major things the NH does better unless AH has changed in the last 10 years, urine redirect and the size of the pooper hole. The AH always seemed to leak a little liquid and make more of a mess in the bowl. Also, unless you had gps guided solids, it was almost impossible for a grown man to avoid the dreaded streak marks. You end up using coffee filters and strategically laid TP to avoid the streaks. With the NH, bombs away without much thought. As Overland said, the two main benefits to the AH are an actual seat and easier urine tank removal. That said, I'm redirecting my urine to a holding tank anyway as we were emptying it almost daily and I go outside most of the time. Big water drinkers. The other thing is I think the AH solid tank itself was bigger because we used to get quite a bit more time between emptying, but we'll see once its actually warm enough to compost quicker. The crank design also was a little better where the NH starts needing a fair amount of leverage pretty early on. As far as the fan, it doesn't need much, I'm sure you can do it just as Oliver installs the NH. The extra solid bucket from AH is also nice so you can remove the full one and let it compost a while longer before emptying. Hope that helps.

All probably true. Question is, will people learn from this. I'm sure this will pull on some strings but as far as I'm concerned, we already live too long, proof being how old folks die unhappy and often with no dignity. As a society we are getting more and more centrally populated and reliant. Most importantly, we are getting fatter, less active and just unhealthier in general. This point is Americans biggest risk. I'm sure all those silly vape pens aren't helping either. Hopefully at the very least people won't continue hiding from the truth after all this blows over.....scratch that, there is no hope for that, we'll just blame the Chinese. We have a society panicking over toilet paper, I think we are too far gone!