Multiplus II with PD EMS wiring help

[rideadeuce]

For those that have upgraded to the Victron MP2. I am thinking about swapping out my Xantrex 2000 for a Victron Multiplus II 3000 and installing Lithium batteries. The part that I need help with is the wiring from the PD 4000 distribution panel and bypassing or disconnecting the charger.  Still need converter portion for shore 110v?

MP2 for Inverter DC to AC, power switch (Shore to DC, DC to Shore) and charging. 

Does the OEM wiring from the junction box on Xantrex end just go into the AC IN and AC OUT on the Victron Multiplus? Or do you need to run the shore power out of EMS to Multiplus AC IN and then back to distribution panel. 

Do you simply disconnect charger?

If you run new longer feed from the EMS to MP 2 AC IN then can you use the AC OUT back to the PD 4000? OR does the EMS to MP2 go back to shore power in the same AC in on back of PD 4000. 

Any clarification on these questions or pics would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to figure it all out before hiring someone or diving in myself. I, also, just want to understand how it works. 

Thanks in advance for any feedback. 

Mike

[Galway Girl]

I upgraded our 2019 from the older 2000watt xantrex inverter to a new combo 2000w xantrex inverter/charger and added Lithionics batteries. 
 

I disconnected the on board progressive dynamics charger (below the dinette). 

I suggest you do a diagram of your current wiring before doing any work. 
 

I created an article on our upgrade:

 

https://4-ever-hitched.com/ggs-blog/f/lithium-battery-upgrade?blogcategory=Electrical+Upgrades

I left out the ems connections in the diagram. 

if you have questions after looking at that pm me and we can talk directly on the phone.

 

Craig Short

 

[rideadeuce]

Love this diagram and explanations. Thanks for write up. The forum is so helpful. I think I have it all figured out it just seems too simple:

Remove Xantrex, transfer switch and jxn box. Install new mount and MP2

Wire up batteries, Take AC IN and AC OUT from the JXN box and plug into AC IN/OUT on Multiplus II. 

Disconnect PD 4000 charger/converter. 

I plan on installing shunt and DC to DC charger soon, so both of those included in write-up helps. 

Thanks again, M

 

[Galway Girl]

I believe in your specific trailer has two external ports for shore power.
Those connections first go to the transfer switch that is on your front wheel well.
That shore or generator power (when applied to either port) goes through that transfer switch then the output connects to the input side of the EMS.
The output of the EMS connects to the main Breaker Panel.

On that panel you'll see the following breakers as indicated on the inside door panel.

The #4 (20A double wide ) breaker is the one that feeds your outlets and microwave. It's also the one connected to the GFCI outlet under the front dinette seat.  It's this circuit that your inverter feeds when you turn it on. 

As to the PF4000 charger output. In the photo you'll see I've taped off the 15A breaker #5. That's the breaker that fed power the charger in the PD4000 panel. 

I've also disconnected the PD4000 charger outputs from the battery circuit and capped and taped the charger output wires. (That way even if the breaker is flipped on, no power will be applied to the new batteries from that old charger.)

Edited April 9 by Galway Girl

[rideadeuce]

Craig, so helpful. Thank you for explanation and pics. I am following you with everything but back feeding power thru the dinette GFCI to the A/C. I have a line 2 AC OUT on inverter if that helps. 
 

Edited April 9 by rideadeuce

[rideadeuce]

Anyone with a Multiplus II 3000W upgrade able to share how they powered A/C from the inverter. MPII has transfer switch built-in. So the plan is to remove the OEM transfer switch and Jxn box. Then connect  the AC IN and AC OUT to the MPII from the old junction box wiring to power outlets and microwave. 

The puzzle for me is wiring/powering Air conditioner off the inverter. On this schematic, the air conditioner looks like it is powered from the converter only.

My OTT is a 2018 with a 2000W ProWatt inverter OEM.

Planning stages of upgrading to MPII 3000W with larger lithium battery bank so that I can run the Air conditioner when off shore power. 

 

 

[Galway Girl]

The shore power ( or generator) feeds thru the ems to the breaker panel.  The a/c ciircuit is on its own  20 amp circuit .

 

if you want to power the a/c from the new inverter,  you would need to also wire into that 20 amp breaker from your inverter.  
 

what does the multiples 2 have as ac output?  Is it one output or two? 

[rideadeuce]

Ok, Perfect. The MP2 has (2) AC line outs. So just a separate AC out line 2 from inverter to A/C 20 amp circuit.

[Galway Girl]

It says on the mp2 datasheet:

 

”Two AC Outputs
The main output has no break functionality. The MultiPlus takes over the supply to the connected 120V loads in the event of a grid failure or when shore/generator power is disconnected. The transfer time of the L1 output is less than 18 milliseconds so that computers and other electronic equipment will continue to operate without disruption.
The transfer time of the L2 output is longer: approximately 40 milliseconds.
The second (auxiliary) output is live only when AC is available on the input of the MultiPlus. Loads that should not discharge the battery can be connected to this output.”

You might try asking service how they connect up their 3000 watt inverter to run both a/c and outlets. 

 

Edited April 10 by Galway Girl

[rideadeuce]

Thank you. I think we were reading the some of the same information. 

"AC-Out-2 supports loads that you only want to run when on shore power or generator. "

34 minutes ago, Galway Girl said:

You might try asking service how they connect up their 3000 watt inverter to run both a/c and outlets. 

 

Yes, unfortunately they don't show their electrical schematics on new systems with 3000 W inverters it seems.

[rideadeuce]

@Galway Girl What are your thoughts about this. Connect the original jxn box AC IN and AC OUT together to complete circuit for outlets and microwave. Removes the transfer switch and inverter from circuit. 

Then take main shore power from EMS that goes to PD 4000 and run it to AC IN on MP2

Then run AC LINE 1 OUT from MP to PD4000 main input.

ALL the power from shore/Gen runs through EMS then to MP2 and then back to PD4000 main, thus distributing to all circuits including air conditioner. 

[Galway Girl]

It says on the mp2 datasheet:

 

”Two AC Outputs
The main output has no break functionality. The MultiPlus takes over the supply to the connected 120V loads in the event of a grid failure or when shore/generator power is disconnected. The transfer time of the L1 output is less than 18 milliseconds so that computers and other electronic equipment will continue to operate without disruption.
The transfer time of the L2 output is longer: approximately 40 milliseconds.
The second (auxiliary) output is live only when AC is available on the input of the MultiPlus. Loads that should not discharge the battery can be connected to this output.”

 

 

[jd1923]

On 4/10/2024 at 2:18 PM, rideadeuce said:

... Connect the original jxn box AC IN and AC OUT together to complete circuit for outlets and microwave. Removes the transfer switch and inverter from circuit. 

Then take main shore power from EMS that goes to PD 4000 and run it to AC IN on MP2

Then run AC LINE 1 OUT from MP to PD4000 main input.

ALL the power from shore/Gen runs through EMS then to MP2 and then back to PD4000 main, thus distributing to all circuits including air conditioner. 

Mike, I know you did the Epoch battery upgrade. Did you ever install a Victron MP2?

I've been under the dinette rear seat a bit lately. Wasted my time on adding a KISAE ATS since the Victron MP2 has an internal ATS.

I just spent an hour or more figuring out this same scenario in my head and came back in the house and searched for the term 'Multiplus' and found your post. We came to the same conclusion, as what you wrote above appears correct to me.

You only need L2 for AC circuits you do not want to run off battery. I do not fully understand the L2 output, because if it is a pass-thru why do they mention 40ms? 

But for the Oliver, with 920AH in batteries and soon you will have an efficient Atmos A/C, you could connect the MP2 L1 output to the entire 120V AC panel, just as the wiring coming from the EMS powers the full panel today (you can see this wiring in the picture). The MP2 is 50A capable and we have a 30A panel and shore power connection. I would imagine with this setup you could run the A/C and microwave at the same time and perhaps more given enough battery SOC.

I just measured mine. So, the Xantrex 2000 will come out and the Victron ATS and junction box (not visible), and the KISEA top left in the pic will all be removed. The PD charger can also come out of the panel, and I figured a larger cooling fan could go there and maybe a 3" vent at the top of the dinette seat.

With all that removed, the space on mine is 20" wide, 16 1/2" tall and full depth is 11". The MP2 measures 14.3" tall, 10.2" wide and 8.6" deep. There is just enough space to wire it vertically as suggested, with maybe enough room for cabling out of the bottom and no extra room on top (should be 4"). There is ample space to mount it horizontally and with a vent and fan. It would be cool if an external fan can be controlled by the MP2 as it has so many ports, some programmable.

For me funding an A/C upgrade, LI batteries and the MP2 will take a while, but I believe it is a great plan to pursue.

[rideadeuce]

@jd1923 Yes, I made a custom aluminum mount that turned out awesome and the MPII sits very securely where the Xantrex was originally. Check out my original install post. It is worth pursuing, the Victron eco-system system is pretty sophisticated comparatively. The power hungry 1800 watts of Penguin AC plus 1800 watts of the microwave doesn’t shut down using the MPII but it does show overload for a few seconds. One of the things I am looking forward to not happening with the more efficient Atmos. 

Best, Mike

Edited June 30 by rideadeuce

[jd1923]

Thanks @rideadeuce I did find your build thread. Earlier I thought it was just about the Epoch install. It appears that yours and many other hulls have the Xantrex 2000 in the rear and mine was installed under the dinette. I only have the Blue Sky solar controller back there. If I can fit it up front it will make the wiring easier and shorter vs. new cable to the rear. Anyway, just a long-term plan for now...