Investigating how to mount solar panels on LEII produced without aluminum mounting plates in roof

[Stranded]

Some final thoughts/tips if someone attempts this:

 

1. Don't attempt without a borescope.  They are pretty cheap on Amazon.

2. Before inserting the plates and tightening down any bolts, casually insert the bolts and confirm with the borescope they aren't too long and hitting the inner hull.

3. You might need remove the mounts a few times if the area you're installing them butts up against a thicker piece of fiberglass like mine did in the rear mounts.  I had to trim the rear mounts a few times, cutting off a little piece at a time to ensure it was as long as possible and just barely touched the thicker fiberglass near the original mounting holes.

4. I originally used a non-magnetic stainless steel in my first iteration of the plates, which I'm glad I didn't go through with.  Use something magnetic.

5. I used 410 stainless steel, which was expensive and overkill; I was just really afraid of rust but still wanted something magnetic.  In retrospect, I could have just used a regular steel plate, which I could have drilled and tapped myself, and then covered it in paint to avoid rust.  Also, a full 1/4 inch thick was probably overkill too.

6. Even if your trailer already has plates fiberglassed in, and if you need to add or replace the solar panel mounts (and don't want to go with flexible panels), the method I've described will still allow you to bolt the panels down without cutting into the fiberglass hull.  But if I already had the plates fiberglassed in, I would probably have reduced the size of my receiver plate with two threaded holes to around 2 inches wide by 1 inch long. 

7. If I need to remove the top mounts, I would remove one bolt and then finger install a long stud or all-thread, and then do the same to the second bolt.  

If I had all the knowledge I have now, I could have completed this whole project in less than 4 hours.  It really only takes a few minutes to get the panel attached using the method I described as you'll see in the video.  The hardest part was manuevering a wrench to get the old nuts off.  Looking back, I could have just cut them off on top and still used a magnet on the long bar stock to get the remnants out between the hulls. 

 

If ever I need to install something else on the rooftop (like an antennae), or convert to a more powerful and aerodynamic panel type, this is how I'll probably do it. 

 

Anyway, all in all, for a proof of concept, this was a rewarding project for me.  It felt pretty dang good knowing I didn't have to cut up my inner hull, and I couldn't help feeling prideful that I outsmarted the factory in attaching the mounts to the roof.   

[taylor.coyote]

As I said before, IMPRESSIVE!! You really got outside the box on this one.  I'm starting from scratch. No plates or holes in my roof.  I will need to find a way to locate where the thicker fiberglass step-downs are located so I can avoid drilling to where they will be an issue. I will ask "top gun" to help me locate where I drill. His hull is #117 and mine is #124. This would be a good bet. Additionally, I think your recommendation of making the plates smaller. the foot roof bracket is something like are 2"x1". I think the plates could be something like 2.25" x 1.5" would be good. I understand the need to countersink the top of the plate. In the video, it was hard to see.  Did you grind/taper the end of the hollow brass screw?  also, what was the length of the final set of bolts used for the brackets?  

with your coaching, I feel this is a very a reasonable project.  

the last thing before I jump off this cliff:  A couple of people mentioned flexible panels. You also made mention of these as an option. I did a small amount of research on these. Seems it would be hard to get enough output because they cannot be mounted to "fly" beyond the roof contours that limit the Oliver to smaller surface panels.  I would like to get an output at least equal to the factory's 340-watt system and maybe more if I choose different panels. I'm curious as to your thoughts on me going forward with traditional panels. 

Thank you so much for giving your time and sharing.  A lot of people have done cool stuff the trailers but I think you should get the "outside the box creativity award". Watching the video, I caught you live in California.  I live in the far north on the coast, north of Eureka and Arcata. We travel the whole state reasonably often. Where in California is your home? 

 

[Stranded]

All I did to the brass screw was drill it hollow, I didn't grind or taper the end of it.  I tried to video myself doing it, but I ended up needing both hands, so only got 20 seconds of footage. 

 

 

As you can see, I just put it in a coupling nut and slowly drilled it out.  I ruined the first bolt when I attempted it, but got it right on the second bolt.  The only reason I used brass is because it's a soft metal and was very easy for a drill bit to cut through.  If I remember correctly, my drill bit wasn't long enough to go through from one side, so after bottoming out the drill bit, I flipped the screw and drilled from the bottom, and I got lucky and the two holes met decently well.  I bought 4 brass bolts because I anticipated screwing a few up.

[Stranded]

4 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

As I said before, IMPRESSIVE!! You really got outside the box on this one.  I'm starting from scratch. No plates or holes in my roof.  I will need to find a way to locate where the thicker fiberglass step-downs are located so I can avoid drilling to where they will be an issue. I will ask "top gun" to help me locate where I drill. His hull is #117 and mine is #124. This would be a good bet. Additionally, I think your recommendation of making the plates smaller. the foot roof bracket is something like are 2"x1". I think the plates could be something like 2.25" x 1.5" would be good. I understand the need to countersink the top of the plate. In the video, it was hard to see.  Did you grind/taper the end of the hollow brass screw?  also, what was the length of the final set of bolts used for the brackets?  

with your coaching, I feel this is a very a reasonable project.  

the last thing before I jump off this cliff:  A couple of people mentioned flexible panels. You also made mention of these as an option. I did a small amount of research on these. Seems it would be hard to get enough output because they cannot be mounted to "fly" beyond the roof contours that limit the Oliver to smaller surface panels.  I would like to get an output at least equal to the factory's 340-watt system and maybe more if I choose different panels. I'm curious as to your thoughts on me going forward with traditional panels. 

Thank you so much for giving your time and sharing.  A lot of people have done cool stuff the trailers but I think you should get the "outside the box creativity award". Watching the video, I caught you live in California.  I live in the far north on the coast, north of Eureka and Arcata. We travel the whole state reasonably often. Where in California is your home? 

 

I would only make the plates smaller if I had larger plates already fiberglassed in (like the factory does now).  The roof bracket on top doesn't need to be large because there is no real force pushing the panels down, the real force is from the wind trying to blow the panels off.  For that, you want a larger plate underneath to spread the load over as much fiberglass as possible. 

 

I don't remember the length of the final set of bolts, but I seem to remember it was possibly 1 1/4 (1.25) inches....?  I know the factory bolts I pulled out were different sizes, even on the same mount.  The factory really hodge-podged mine together, so I couldn't trust the size of the bolts they used.  Before installing any plates, buy a couple of lengths of bolts of 1 inch, 1.25 inches, and 1.5 inches.  Then drop them into your hole and view it from a borescope to see which size looks best.  I remember I didn't want the threads to stick out too far under the plate, and you really don't want them touching the top of the inner hull. 

 

I would have rather had the plates where the fiberglass is a bit thick to give more meat to prevent bending, cracking or breaking the fiberglass, but seeing as how I've had no problems where the factory put the holes, I guess it's working out.  

 

As to flexible panels.......the current way the factory does it makes the roof line look dorky; it ruins the aesthetics.  But like you mentioned, to get the most output from traditional panels, the panels need to "fly" over the curvatures of the roof.  As to the aerodynamics of how the factory does it, the panels are pretty level, and appear to have a zero angle of attack.  I used my trailer without the panels after they got damaged and I must have drove a combined 1,000 miles on different camping trips while I worked out how I was going to remove and replace the solar mounts; I didn't see a real difference in fuel mileage, so I don't think the parasitic drag of the panels is costing that much. But then again, I was driving a heavy diesel truck that doesn't know the trailer is even there. 

 

Flexible panels look cooler and can conform to a roof line giving better aerodynamics.  They wouldn't need to fly over the roof because they should conform to the contours. Granted, with the complex roof contours of an Oliver, I'm not sure how well a flexible panel would contort to match the roof line, and a portion of the panel would be vertical, and thus not getting as much sun as the rest of the panel. Therefore, I have no idea how good they are.   In all honesty, I haven't really researched flexible panels in a few years (maybe a decade), and back then the technology wasn't as good as traditional panels.  How good it is now, I couldn't tell you.  Furthermore, I still had the wire port roof cap on top of my trailer, and I wasn't in a position to re-engineer moving it.  So I just stuck with using Zamp traditional panels.  

 

I'm in Tehachapi myself.  I really like Northern California, I love seeing green landscapes; it's pretty drab out here in the desert.  We try to camp either near the coast or in the mountains.  It's gotten tougher though since the boys are in school now and want to get into activities like soccer.  I bought my trailer because I was hell bent on driving through Alaska.  Thanks to Covid restrictions and fuel prices, our big vacation plan has gotten scrapped for 2 years running, and this summer is my wife's big family reunion, so 2023 is a bust.  I'm hoping for Alaska in 2024.  After that, I'll probably have to sell my trailer because the boys will be too big for it.  But we're sure enjoying it while we can all fit in it! 

 

[CRM]

44 minutes ago, Stranded said:

Flexible panels look cooler and can conform to a roof line giving better aerodynamics.  They wouldn't need to fly over the roof because they should conform to the contours. Granted, with the complex roof contours of an Oliver, I'm not sure how well a flexible panel would contort to match the roof line, and a portion of the panel would be vertical, and thus not getting as much sun as the rest of the panel. Therefore, I have no idea how good they are.   In all honesty, I haven't really researched flexible panels in a few years (maybe a decade), and back then the technology wasn't as good as traditional panels.  How good it is now, I couldn't tell you.  Furthermore, I still had the wire port roof cap on top of my trailer, and I wasn't in a position to re-engineer moving it.  So I just stuck with using Zamp traditional panels.  

 

 

I wouldn't even consider mounting flexible panels directly on my Ollie's roof as they can get hot enough to ruin the gelcoat underneath. I've witnessed this happen on a boat where the gelcoat turned brownish with a cracked finish after just one season of use.

[taylor.coyote]

Stranded,

Grateful for your help. You have a standing invitation to camp at our place on the way Alaska or if you get by this part of state. We live on 8 acres surrounded by big Redwoods. Plenty of room to camp with some 15amp power. Not so good for solar panels here.  We like the desert and spent a good portion of 7 weeks in southeast ca and parts of Nv  over the holidays. We are headed back to southeast ca and maybe other areas in about 30 days with the hope of some great super blooms. My wife is an artist and paints Plein Air and I'm a wildlife photographer, aspersing to be a better landscape shooter. Doing a few locations for super blooms could be fun but not sure about the crowds. We like to be remote away from all the action.   Alaska is on our list. I have read about how bad the roads are for flying rocks and the ways to protect the fiberglass... This has slowed down get to Alaska but that's a different project. 

[taylor.coyote]

Stranded,

i noticed that the packages of brass bolts are 1/4 20 treads and you had listed 10/24 earlier in the communication. what bolt size did you use for the brackets?   

[Stranded]

1 hour ago, taylor.coyote said:

Stranded,

i noticed that the packages of brass bolts are 1/4 20 treads and you had listed 10/24 earlier in the communication. what bolt size did you use for the brackets?   

Everything should have been 1/4 20 threads, that's what the factory used on my trailer, and that's what I replaced it with.  I misremembered when I wrote my first reply to this thread (I was going off my memory prior to reviewing my videos), and I think I neglected to edit all of the references to 10/24 (I missed one).  I seem to no longer have the option to edit that original post. 

[Stranded]

1 hour ago, taylor.coyote said:

Stranded,

Grateful for your help. You have a standing invitation to camp at our place on the way Alaska or if you get by this part of state. We live on 8 acres surrounded by big Redwoods. Plenty of room to camp with some 15amp power. Not so good for solar panels here.  We like the desert and spent a good portion of 7 weeks in southeast ca and parts of Nv  over the holidays. We are headed back to southeast ca and maybe other areas in about 30 days with the hope of some great super blooms. My wife is an artist and paints Plein Air and I'm a wildlife photographer, aspersing to be a better landscape shooter. Doing a few locations for super blooms could be fun but not sure about the crowds. We like to be remote away from all the action.   Alaska is on our list. I have read about how bad the roads are for flying rocks and the ways to protect the fiberglass... This has slowed down get to Alaska but that's a different project. 

Thanks!  I'll probably take you up on that offer someday! 

[topgun2]

Can I have seconds on that camping at your place? 😇

[taylor.coyote]

TopGun,

You have been very kind, I would be happy to have stay at our place.. We like fly fishing, motorcycles, hiking and kitty cats around here. 

[taylor.coyote]

 My follow up after all the help, especially from Stranded. Per Stranded's instructions, i made custom plates, drilled a brass screw so it was hollow, made a false roof to prove we could drag the plates into place and thread the bolts into the plates.  All was good. after proving everything worked, the next step was to pull the fan and probe between the hulls to inspect inside the roof line with the bore scope.

What we learned looking through the bore scope came as a great surprise. My hull #124 had mounting plates glassed in from the production of the trailer. I will reenforce Stranded's recommendation. "Do not attempt this project without the aid of a bore scope." The scope saved us who knows how much grief with the discovery of factory installed back up plates. Additionally, the scope was super helpful routing wire. The installation of the solar panels was straight forward. We located the panels and Am Solar L foot brackets on the roof of the trailer. Drilled into the factory back up plates and taped them. Bolted the Am Solar L foot brackets and completed the standard Zamp 340 watt solar panel installation. All reasonably straight forward. 

The trailer was not pre-wired from the factory. Per Jason's recommendation, we pulled wire inside the roofline from the solar panel along the driver's side of the fan and air conditioner into the attic. From the attic, down the driver's side of the back window into the basement. From basement, under the driver's side bed and into the pantry. From the pantry we were able to access the battery compartment and kitchenette seating. We located the controller and battery monitor shunt under the kitchenette seat next to the negative bus bar. Once started, the whole project (excluding making the custom back up plates and other custom parts that we ended up not needing) took about 12 hours.  The wire routing and location of the controller varies from a factory installation but the installation is clean and I feel access to the components is easier under the kitchenette  vs. being under the bed.

Again, thanks to everyone, especially Stranded and Andrew K. 

[Stranded]

Glad it worked out! Please post some pictures if you have them.

Funny enough, I re-looked at my pictures and videos, ends up the factory fiberglassed plates into my roof too, except they were in the wrong place when they attached my solar panels, so they used the Fiamma spacers instead. That's why I had to cut some of my plates shorter, they were butting up to the fiberglassed aluminum plates, which were too far forward to be used correctly.

I'm kind of pissed at the factory for taking a quick and dirty fix instead of grinding off the misplaced aluminum plates and fiberglassing them in the right location. Oh well, c'est la vie. 

[taylor.coyote]

Stranded, your help was invaluable and contributed to my success. Unfortunately we did not have a SD card in the bore scope so i don't have any images to share from inside the roof line.  

I do have a set of custom backup plates threaded as 1/4 20  and a hollow 1/4 20 brass bolt I'm willing to share with the next person needing to mount solar  that does not have plates glassed into the roof. Based on my hull being #124 , I'm thinking few trailers are without plates in the roof.  

Wow, plates glassed in the wrong places and they hacked in your plates. Of all the trailers, you are the guy ends up needing to replace your L brackets on your roof.  What are the odds?  

[Stranded]

14 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Stranded, your help was invaluable and contributed to my success. Unfortunately we did not have a SD card in the bore scope so i don't have any images to share from inside the roof line.  

I do have a set of custom backup plates threaded as 1/4 20  and a hollow 1/4 20 brass bolt I'm willing to share with the next person needing to mount solar  that does not have plates glassed into the roof. Based on my hull being #124 , I'm thinking few trailers are without plates in the roof.  

Wow, plates glassed in the wrong places and they hacked in your plates. Of all the trailers, you are the guy ends up needing to replace your L brackets on your roof.  What are the odds?  

The odds were crazy that anybody would go digging between the hulls, and I'm sure whoever was on the assembly line just said, "Screw it! No one's gonna know the plates are in the wrong place. We got to keep the production rolling, just use whatever backing plates you can find."

And to be fair, technically what they used worked; I've seen worse on fiberglass boats. So props to them for keeping things moving.

But as the old saying goes, integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. And since the fiberglassed backing plates for solar is something the company advertises about, I felt it was a bit shady the approach they took. Oh well.

Someone might need your plates. I believe the factory drills straight through the aluminum plates and then uses a nylon nut to secure everything. If I had that set-up, and I needed to replace a mount, I'd cut the plates smaller and still use them to attach the bolts. 

I truly am glad everything worked out for you. It's always good to hear a success story of someone fixing or making something themselves. And since we live 2,000 miles away from the factory, it's doing it ourselves and helping each other that'll keep our trailers in good order.