Overland

Marine Units, Truck Cab Coolers, Things We Can't Buy, Misc. Ideas, and Future Possibilities For a while I was convinced that I could find a marine AC unit that would work, but so far I've struck out. They're either water cooled (great idea at sea, not so great inland), yacht-level expensive, or just as bulky as anything else I've looked at. But if anyone knows of something I've missed, please post up. One company makes an exterior portable unit. It's only 10,000 btu, so maybe it isn't big enough. I suspect that it's similar to the interior portables in that there are considerable losses in the hoses and packaging, and it looks like as much of a hassle as anything else to set up. But still, it's worth mentioning. A really interesting idea is the Truck Cab coolers. These are typically 12 volt units designed to run off batteries while a trucker is parked for the night. The problem is that they're expensive, difficult to source, and are designed to cool a very small space. The biggest, best option seems to be the IndelB Sleeping Well units, particularly the Arctic Plus model. It's essentially a 12-volt mini split like above and the interior unit is sized much more compatibly with the Oliver. The exterior unit is more durable than the residential ones, can be flush mounted, and is small enough to fit on the side of the LP box or even on the spare tire cover (provided you can sort out how to deal with the refrigerant lines when you need to change a tire). The problem is that it's only 6,000 btu, meaning you'd either want to install two, or otherwise block off the bed area with a curtain and try to only cool that space. And the other problem is price and availability - you'd either have to get Oliver to become a licensed dealer or go to a truck center and convince them to work on a travel trailer. Either way, I'm best-guessing that it's a $2,500+ endeavor. I really like the idea of the Noria - but it's not a product yet, and we'll see if it ever becomes one. Again, you'd need two, but they're so small that it probably wouldn't be a problem locating them. There's an Australian company that makes/made a really nice split system, but they're 240 volt and not available in the US. However, they were just bought out by Dometic, so there's a possibility that we might eventually see them here. Truma makes what could be the perfect form factor, though they're a bit light on power (and 240 volt). Maybe buy a 240 volt inverter? --- So that's the state of AC at the moment. I'm sure that there are dozens of things that I've overlooked, gotten wrong, etc. As I learn more, I'll make changes and additions to the above so that hopefully this can be an ongoing resource for anyone looking to do the impossible.

Window Units Window units are a classic. They're efficient, can be really cheap, and are easily installed provided you have a window that it fits. They're also a fairly common alternative in the RV/Travel Trailer world, so their ability to stand up to vehicle use is fairly well established. And if they do break, another unit is a few hundred bucks and a trip to War Mart. I like this idea, though there are certainly drawbacks. First, if you leave one in place while traveling, you have to consider the stresses it places on the window and surrounding wall. Secondly, they aren't attractive, and they certainly don't fit the Oliver aesthetic. If they're small and light enough, you could remove them while in transit or when not needed, but I don't know exactly where you'd store it when traveling - maybe in the back of the truck? But the main obstacle is finding a window in which one will fit. Some companies make narrow and tall window units that might fit the width of a slider opening, but the ones that I've found would be too tall. I tried finding a unit that is small enough to fit either in the battery box compartment or the microwave compartment, but I couldn't find any that are both small enough and powerful enough, though I haven't completely ruled out the microwave spot just yet. Another consideration is that despite what sort of vent you might add on the outside, they'd still suffer from poor ventilation in either of those locations due to being surrounded on the top, bottom and sides. But if you could make that work, then you'd get a built in look for the inside and at worst an extra vent on the outside. Some installations I've seen mount the AC on drawer glides so that you can extend the unit out when camped. That puts the AC back in a hole, but maybe it still works more efficiently that way. You could ask Oliver to cut a dedicated hole for an AC on the street side under the dinette. They could put a hatch on both the inside and out, and then you could slide in your AC when needed. This would be a clean look while traveling, but Oliver would have to O.K. the structural implications of cutting the hole, and you'd have the hassle of installing and uninstalling the AC. And again, cold knees while sitting at the dinette. It would be an interesting setup though if you went all out with some slides to extend the AC in and out. The other choice, surely forbidden by Oliver and maybe not a great idea regardless, would be to pop open the rear egress window and put the AC there. You could replace the window for a permanent installation, or you could build a temporary insert that you'd put in place and then insert the AC. I think there's a possibility there, but you'd have to be comfortable with eliminating the Bear Escape. So if we say that you've decided a window unit is the thing to do, which one? I think there are two choices - you either find the cheapest unit you can find, and accept that you'll just replace it when & if it breaks, or you can spend some big bucks for a unit that should hold up reliably for years. That unit would be a Kühl, and it would cost you over $1,000. Just saying. Nice though. At this point, if it were me, I'd make a temporary insert for the rear window, buy a removable support shelf that I could brace on the tire or bumper, and then when we thought we'd need AC on our trip, we'd carry the cheapest AC unit we can find, either in the bed of the truck or in the basement. When we get to camp, just lift open the rear window, install the brace and the insert, and then the AC. Sounds like a bit of a hassle, but as I said earlier, for us it's a one or two time a year thing at most. Advantages: Cheap Efficient Relatively reliable Fairly easily installed and removed Disadvantages: Ugly Requires some setup if you don't do a permanent installation Could block the emergency egress if irresponsibly located My verdict: Sure, why not? It's not perfect, not pretty, but it works, especially for occasional use.

Portable Units If, like us, you only have occasional use for AC, you might be tempted to buy a portable AC unit. These are freestanding, all in one units that you simply wheel into place and then run a duct to a window to vent the exhaust. They're big, but many 12,000 btu models and even some 14,000 btu models are just small enough to be stored under the dinette table, behind the post. There are some that blow directly to the front, so you could potentially leave them there even while in use. They all have remotes, so you wouldn't have to crawl under the table to adjust them. They're fairly inexpensive - usually under $500 and often under $400. And the big advantage is that you can leave it at home if you don't think you'll need it. The big disadvantage - the very big disadvantage - is that they don't work. To quote one review I read, "all portable air conditioners suck, and our job was to find the one that sucks the least". Consumer reports says that they couldn't make any unit they tested cool anything below 78°. Now, if you're O.K. with 78°, then fine. I wouldn't be. But if you do want to go this route, my advice is that you get a unit with both intake and exhaust hoses (dual hose). If you don't, then the unit will create a vacuum in the trailer, pulling in hot air and defeating the purpose of having an AC in the first place. Also, the exhaust hose itself will radiate heat back into the trailer, so minimize the hose length and perhaps wrap it in insulation. Another possibility are portable air coolers, otherwise known as swamp coolers. These might work in the desert, but I need one that works in the southeastern humidity, so I haven't gone down that path. But it is something to consider. They also require lots of water, so maybe not a good idea for boondocking. Advantages: Cheap Can leave it at home when not needed Disadvantages: Don't work My verdict: Ignore this option, tempting though it may seem.

Mini Splits These are residential units made much like the standard AC system in your home. The only difference is that they are sized to cool one or two rooms only, and come packaged for quick, maybe even DIY, installation. They consist of separate inside (evaporator) and outside (condenser) units, and the refrigerant hosing that connects the two. They run on household 115V AC and typically pull less than 1500W for a 12,000 btu system, and have a seer rating in the 20's. (Rooftop seer ratings are all below 10, for reference.) And you might not need a 12,000 btu unit, since these all seem to be rated for average output, and their max output is often listed 2,000 btu or so higher. Since the compressor unit is located remotely, the only sound you hear inside is the fan. Additionally, if you set the fan to always on, the sound will be completely constant since you won't be bothered by the on/off cycling of the compressor. The big problem with these units is that they didn't consult Oliver when they packaged them. The inside units are invariably 12" tall and 30-36" wide. And they require at least 6" or so of clearance around them. That doesn't give us many choices for placement. The best spot I can think of is under the dinette window, but you'd either have to cut the table to allow airflow or remove it whenever you run the AC. Regardless, it would make for a chilly dining experience. You could maybe put it on the kitchen wall, but at 8-10" deep, they'd definitely be in the way. I don't think one would fit over the closet door or in front of the rear upper cabinet. I guess you could put one over the rear window if you're desperate. As an alternative to the wall mounted unit, most companies also offer a ceiling mounted evaporator. But they're much wider than the standard rooftop unit and I think too wide to fit the Oliver's ceiling. Plus they're usually 10" or so deep, so you might end up having to build a little box on the roof anyway, which sort of defeats the purpose. Some manufacturers also make a ducted system. It's possible that someone makes an evaporator unit that would fit inside the basement, that could potentially tie into the furnace ducts. I haven't been able to find one so far that fits, but if one does exist then that might solve the problem of the interior unit, at the expense of basement storage. Outside, the situation is no better. The units usually require 12" of clearance in the back, so even if you cheat on that a bit, you still can't mount them directly to the outside of the trailer. I think the best spots would be on a platform attached to the tongue, similar to the generator stand, or you could make something similar out of the bike rack on the back. But you'd have to brace the unit well and have a cover made since they aren't designed for the sort of wind or spray they'd be subjected to. Rear placement would be better in that respect, though that location might make it difficult to access the spare tire. Advantages: Very efficient, ~23 seer is common Very quiet, ~28db on low fan speed Disadvantages: Can be expensive, depending on brand and model Not built for vehicle use Needs a pro or some detailed knowledge of AC systems to install and maintain Very difficult to find a spot for either unit My verdict: Yes, you might be able to make it work; but you're taking a risk on reliability and unless you can find a ducted unit that fits the basement, the interior unit will be very difficult to locate. However, if you can make it work, you'd be the envy of all.

Like everything else when it comes to trailers, air conditioning is an exercise in compromise. I've been doing some research into alternatives to the ubiquitous rooftop unit, and I thought I'd share what I've learned so far, since I've had a few people ask what my AC plans are for Snowball. I'm still learning, so I may update this post as I go. Please feel free to share your own ideas, experiences, research and comments. I'll do this in a few separate posts for ease of reading and typing. First, what's so bad about the rooftop AC? Well, they aren't terrible, but they do compare poorly in pretty much every aspect but one. Rooftop Disadvantages: Expensive relative to most other options Inefficient Heavy Their weight is placed in the absolute least desirable spot on the trailer; i.e., top rear They're an aerodynamic drag Loud Unattractive They take up roof space that you may find valuable for something else Their Advantages: They take up almost no interior space, save for a few inches of headroom They come stock So, in our case, one of our main goals for our trailer is to maximize the solar input. As it is, Oliver can get three 160W panels on the roof if you're willing to forgo satellite or other TV antennas. The mount they use for them looks a bit awkward compared to the two-panel mount, at least in the only photo I've seen; and since one panel is turned sideways, they look a bit haphazard - but they're up there. Four panels would work better - you'd get 640W total and they'd be better arranged and sleeker looking, but to do that, you've got to eliminate the AC unit and push the MaxxAir fan back. Now, we could also add portable panels, and will certainly keep that option available, but portable panels have their own set of pros and cons that I won't get into here. The other thing about us is that over the past three years, we've literally wanted AC while camping once, and then for only about 3 hours. We like to hike and climb, etc., and we hate the heat, so we're more fall through spring campers. Frankly, we could just do without AC, and may still do that. But if we do say that we'd like the occasional option to go out when it's 90°+, we'd obviously need AC. One good example of that is that we want to go camp for the upcoming eclipse - that's August and we'd be in southern Kentucky, so AC would be imperative. So, options. I've identified the following classes of possible alternatives: Residential Mini Split Systems Interior Portable Units Exterior Portable Units Window Units Truck Cab AC's - 12 Volt Marine Systems Things that don't exist yet or only exist for Aussies and Europeans Looking at each one of these, I always begin thinking 'Eureka!'. Then the reality sets in, and I realize the drawbacks and issues. And then for most of them, with some thought I can see that yes, they'd work, but with obvious drawbacks. I've yet to find the perfect rooftop replacement, and I don't know if one really exists right now. But there may be one or two imperfect solutions which on the whole are a better alternative for us than the rooftop AC, and perhaps the same will be true for some of you as well. So let's deal with each of these in some additional posts...

See, that gives me a great idea for our trailer - we're doing the twin beds, but with a table, and now I know where to hide the table posts.

Well, you have to hang your flag somewhere.

I think Steve and Tali have hatches like that on the Outlaw Oliver.

Looks like boat railing, is it? I like the look.

I do appreciate all of that, so thank you. I can especially understand your decision to look for a different breed. I'm not sure I could do that myself. For me, there are German Shepherds and then there are other people's dogs. And then there are other people's German Shepherds, which all should be mine though I accept that they're being cared for adequately while I'm taking a break.

Thank you!

If someone finds themselves hanging out next to their Elite II battery box this weekend with a tape measure in hand, would you mind getting the interior dimensions for me? I'm looking for the dimensions of the fiberglass box rather than the battery tray - height, depth and width. I'm trying to see if I can fit something in there other than batteries.

While you're at it, you might consider some options for the tanks themselves, since there's more out there than just the 20 and 30's. There is a 33 lb aluminum tank, which should fit - somehow it's slightly shorter than the 30lb but the same diameter. I've thought about doing just one of those, and having the extra space for storage. Or maybe one big tank and one small 10lb reserve tank. Or a skinny little 6lb tank. Anyone know the dimensions of the nosecone or the maximum height cylinder you could use? Also, I believe that the bottom of the nosecone is completely open, so if you want to use it for storage, you might ask Oliver if they would weld some open mesh to the bottom of the frame there.

Congratulations! 200 is a good number. I wonder if that means I'll get 202 - I like symmetry. Actually, yours is probably much further along. Maybe I can shoot for 212 - what week did yours start?

Basically, we looked at our past trips, and the types of roads that we end up on, and we're trying to make a trailer that can handle that level of abuse for it's entire life. So, we're not looking to climb up rocky mountain passes, but we will end up on washboard gravel and often for hours at a time. We took these examples from our recent trips: Backcountry camping at Big Bend, the drives in and out of Chaco Canyon, backcountry camping at Land Between the Lakes, and making a poor route choice in Kaibab NF (I do that a lot) That's pretty mild stuff from an offload standpoint. But it's abusive over time, especially in the wrong vehicle. All of the items in the list were done in our aging BMW X5 with the only upgrade being all terrain tires. The X5 never skipped a beat, but it wouldn't do 10 years of that and we want both a trailer and truck that can. We want a trailer that can do 50 years of it. So from that list, we came up with these obstacles that we encountered multiple times: Washboard roads, sometimes for hours and sometimes severe; ruts of roughly 12"; whoops (not the big whoops that desert racers talk about - what we call whoops are bits of the road that take you by surprise; i.e., that one big bump or hole in an otherwise smooth gravel road that makes you wonder if you broke something, and makes your wife remind you that she told you not to drive so fast); short water crossings up to 24"; and finally dust, mud and sand. So that's what we're trying to get Oliver to help us with. The biggest ask is the suspension. We think that it can be upgraded regardless, but we don't want to pay Oliver to give us one suspension and then go pay someone else to take it off and replace it. If we have to do it ourselves, we'll probably live with the stock suspension for a while to get a feel for exactly what we'd want to change, and there's an argument to be made for that being the better choice anyway. The water and dust issues are tricky, but I feel like we have some workable solutions. Our other Big Ask that's related to remote camping is that I want what I call a 'modern' electrical system, meaning a hybrid inverter/charger, lithium batteries, and ample enough solar to match. Basically, a Victron MultiPlus and the related gear. So, we'll see. I'm trying to be realistic about what Oliver will be willing to do, but I've always followed the philosophy that if you don't ask for something, you aren't likely to get it.

Hmmm. So how is vehicle length determined in this case? Total length from hitch to bumper is the obvious answer, but the dimension that would matter most here, imo, would be the distance between the tow vehicle's rear axle and the centerline of the Oliver's axles.

Sorry, but Rams are out of the question. IMO, they're a generation behind in pretty much every respect, and FCA's record on quality and their plans for the future are questionable. The only FCA vehicle I'd buy right now would be a Wrangler. We did debate getting one of the new Super Duties but the Raptor fit our needs much better. Plus driving a 250/2500 series truck around town every day is a pain. With the Raptor, you get a 250 strength frame in a 150 sized package. A little wider, but not much, and you can get a super short wheelbase for a full size, though we're going with the crew cab for the storage. The towing features on the new SD are awesome though - very tempting. Yes, we're doing the composting toilet but to date Oliver hasn't relented on pulling any of the black tank stuff. Ridiculous - they're going to run a vent pipe and cut a hole in the roof for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I gave my spiel on the axle flip, so we'll see. I've officially requested that plus disk brakes and electric over hydraulic. 2" of compression travel would be a joke for us, especially when our truck will have 14". We'd knock a big dent in the frame without even realizing that we're on a rough road. And with only 18.5" to the weeps, the smallest water crossing will flood the hull space and probably short out the brakes. Nothing on gravel protection. I'm mostly worried about dust intrusion, minimizing vents, making sure I can put filters or caps on the ones that are left, etc. One good piece of advice is that if you go with an Isotherm fridge, the compressor is at the top right rear, so you can eliminate the bottom fridge vent entirely, and I think even place a vent toward the kitchen and eliminate both exterior vents.

We just don't do much high temp cooking. It's rare that we're boiling anything - eggs are about it. Even bacon I like to cook super slow on low heat. I could see the induction being great for searing, but we'll have the grill for that. We do steam things a lot, so that's a potential use. Of course I haven't considered the coffee situation. Boiling water for a french press might be a regular thing if we don't bring along a coffeemaker.

Yeah, that's a really nice photo. We're planning to be there this spring - I'll have to find those trees!

Cool - I like it!

Thanks for all the advice! Some comments & thoughts... We found that the new latches on the LP box are super easy to use, so we don't know if the porthole is really necessary any more. Agree on the hooks. We are going to install a few of these hooks, which are very low profile. We'll put 3 of them below the pantry for kitchen towels (rather than a towel bar), and 2 in the kitchen to the left of the sink. We're also going to get a handful of these suction hooks, which have the twist knob and stick really well. They have a number of accessories for them like soap dishes, shower caddies, etc. We're doing the rooftop solar, 3 panels for 480W, but have asked Oliver to give us a port on each side of the trailer to plug in some portable panels. What I'd really like to do is move the AC off the roof and put 620W up there, but I don't have high hopes on that one. The thing about portable panels is that they can be attractive to thieves - expensive and easy to grab. We've asked Oliver if we can install this sink and faucet. The sink should fit, from the measurements I took. They have some nice accessories for it, like a colander insert, rinsing tub, cutting board, etc. The faucet is similar to the one Oliver uses now, but we thought that the pull out spray on that one was bulky and hard to maneuver. The IKEA sprayer is tiny in comparison.

Power certainly won't be a problem, though I'm a little nervous about how the weight will sit on the soft shocks. Our plan is to use the Ollie as a basecamp and then take the truck out on more adventurous day trips, or even overnighters with our tent. We'll see how it goes. Bill, I know what you mean. I have a tendency to be a perfectionist on those details, and overthink everything until my head spins. Worse, I've been collecting ideas for over a year now, so figuring out what we want to do and not do is driving us nuts.

I'm eager to see your design for the graphics. I played around with a few things for ours, but it was clear that my wife is expecting her all-white trailer to remain so.

Take your time. I'm sure when and if the time is right and you find the right one, you'll know it. When we lost our pup, the question of adopting another was inevitable I suppose. I think my wife would definitely do that if it were only up to her. But he and I were really close, and while I did miss having a dog, I also missed him. And I couldn't shake the feeling that it was something of a betrayal to "replace" him (as if that were even possible). It's been while now, but I still feel that way. In time, I'm sure it will happen, since I feel absolutely incomplete not having a pup around - but I think it will be a while.

We're scheduled for a Feb start and early May delivery for our Elite II. Finally. Hopefully, we'll have a tow vehicle by then. We've ordered a Ford Raptor, so the delivery date is a mystery, but mid-April is my best guess. Snowball is her working title, chosen mainly because this whole project began with wanting a Jeep and a little tent trailer, but kept/keeps growing and growing. Also, I believe it will be white. In the end, we'll call it "The Trailer", which is perhaps less interesting but we've never been into naming vehicles. Twin bed model, but we'll use their sofa-type cushions rather than mattresses, and we've asked Oliver to create a small version of the dining table that will work in combination with the nightstand. Hopefully that will make for the best of both worlds for us. We're talking with Oliver about options for the electrical system and solar, suspension modifications, and a healthy handful of smaller modifications that I'm sure are driving them nuts. We're still working on the final specs and pricing, so the construction dates could slip, depending on how it all comes together - but if we can tie it all together before the first week of February, we'll at least get started on schedule. I'll try to make some more detailed posts about what we're doing, once we figure out exactly what that is.