Overland

The story on the black tank is that it provides structure for the bathroom floor. They could remove it, but would need to put something back to keep the floor from flexing. Possibly, that something could be a fresh water tank, but I was told that making alterations to the tanks, or adding a separate tank, was an expensive endeavor because the tanks are made in a mould and getting a new mould made is like getting one made for the tub. They don't look moulded to me, but what do I know. I thought they were cut and glued together. I also thought that the black tank in the photos I've seen doesn't exactly look wedged in there, so I'm not sure exactly how structural it is, but anyway, that's the what I was told. It was very clear to me that they do not want to remove any of that stuff. I don't get it, but there it is. The axle kit is being looked into. I'm pushing hard on that one for a number of reasons. First, I'm very worried about the lack of suspension travel and damaging the trailer frame on bigger bumps. Secondly, there's really no good way to prevent water intrusion if you have to ford anything more than a foot or so. I'm looking into some options for that as well - the weeps are the biggest, fixable issue. After that, the furnace is the next to see water and unfortunately there isn't much to do about that. Any further up, and then water is coming in the door and the seal on that didn't look like it will keep out much water. If you're interested, I did some measuring around the wheel wells to see if the tire size could be upped any. It's pretty tight - and you couldn't do a thing without flipping the axles since the tires look like they'd rub the fender flare at full compression as it is. Maybe without the fender flare you could do something, but it was obviously designed for smaller tires than what they're using now. Jason said no problem leaving the flares off. If you did the axle flip, the space between the tires would be the limiting dimension - roughly 4" now, so if you tried going to 32"s, you'd end up with an inch or less between the tires. They're looking into dust intrusion for me as well - I'm going with a 12V fridge so hopefully we won't need any vents by the door, which is the main problem. Even if I have to keep one, it could be the top one and there should be enough space to rig a filter. As it is, there's nothing at all keeping dust out of either of those vents. Nor bugs. Nor smallish bears. The bath vent seems to seal pretty well. The weeps are the other entry point. I'll probably have to do some work on some of the hatch seals to eliminate gaps. By the way, the windows are a new manufacturer - didn't get the brand. But they looked like they sealed up pretty well and Jason said that there shouldn't be any need for the gutter strips like on the old ones. Maybe I'm imagining it, but they seemed a bit sleeker looking from the outside. Spare tire cover is being looked at. Heather told me they'd changed it and the spare was full sized, but Jason said no. No time frame given, but it would have to be soon because I'm not going to carry anything but a full size. Carpet kit and stone guard are going to have to be an after market add if you want them. I talked to them about solar. They'll do 3 panels for 480W no problem at all, so long as you don't need all the sat antennas and stuff. They have done one trailer with 4 panels @ 640W, but as I suspected, that means eliminating the AC. I asked about mini splits or the Dometic Cool Cat in place of the rooftop, but the response wasn't positive. What they will do is provide exterior ports for portable panels, so if nothing else we'll do that. I asked them about SunPower panels, and they'll look to see if they can get them. They have one client going with a Victron setup like the Technomadia folk, but Oliver won't do it themselves. That person is getting AM Solar to do it aftermarket, which I'm sure isn't cheap. Oliver isn't even running the cables. They're talking to a company that does a full lithium setup that is one self-contained unit with all the batteries and controllers, etc. that would bolt underneath the trailer. I believe the price was going to be something like $15k, which I just laughed at - not on my trailer for sure. I'm going to push for the Victron on ours even if we don't do lithium right now, since I just want it all to be ready when the inevitable swap happens. Plus the Victron kit is just nice and it shouldn't cost much more than what they use already. They're nervous about it since that stuff is really outside their expertise. But, you know, it's the future and they'll have to bite the bullet at some point. Oh, I also asked about disk brakes and electric over hydraulic. I was not told no. ; ) By the way, the new sink in the kitchen is nice - wider and deeper - though you lose a drawer as a result. New faucet as well, with a high neck and sprayer. The new bath faucet is an RVIA thing, but they'll install it and then swap it for the old one after the fact if you want. The frosted upper cabinet doors are sweet. Really nice. They're doing compression latches on those for us, which you might want to specify as well. They're also offering an UltraLeather type material now for the cushions which looks great, should wear well and be a cinch to keep clean. It has a flat leather-texture finish, very similar to what you'd see in a high end car. We were going to have the upholstery done locally, but after seeing the new stuff, I have no problems letting Oliver do it. I don't know if the quality is the same as Ultra or Nauga, but it looks like it will hold up. There's other stuff I might post up later - I was there long enough to overstay my welcome. Jason was glad to see me leave, no doubt.

We're pushing for the circulation pump for ours, too - talking to Jason, it sounded like there's enough interest for them to try to make it work. One thing I asked about was insulating the PEX lines along the circulation path, so he's looking into that as well. PEX is a good heat conductor, though I don't know if it's really worth the effort for such a small run - still, worth looking into. On a related note, I said something about them having a heat duct in the hull space, and I was told that they don't really do that. What they actually do is use 'special heat-conducting ductwork' between the hulls; i.e., uninsulated. LOL.

Will do. I actually have all that on my list, except for the carpet, so hopefully with two of us asking at the same time we'll have a better chance of making some of it happen.

John, I'm headed to Oliver tomorrow to get them going on our build and the whole black tank thing is high on the list of things to work out. I want to delete both the tank and the large waste line running to the back and repurpose some of that space into a larger fresh tank. I'll let you know what they say. If there's anything else you want me to ask them face to face, let me know - I know both you and I have similar needs for our trailers.

Good point. What about running the heat strip plus the recirculating fan on the furnace?

Can you not run the heat strip on the AC while traveling, or does that pull too much power?

Using Facebook to protect private info is a bit like hiring the fox to protect the henhouse, isn't it? That aside, I have to agree with the above. There have been a few trailer companies that I've been interested in, but the owners had pretty much sequestered themselves behind private websites. It was a big turn off in general, but made it impossible as a prospective buyer to get opinions from owners. One of the things that attracted me to Oliver in the first place was the openness of existing owners and their eagerness to share their experiences. If a private forum exists, even as an option, it will always give the impression that there are things being said that current owners don't want potential owners to know about. It also makes the owner group look cliquish and unfriendly. And there's of course the risk of the owner community being split between the 'Facebook people' and 'forum people'.

You can pump water into the fresh water tank from there. Good for if you're boondocking and carrying extra water with you in your truck. Or with a filter you can pull directly from a stream. It's also used when winterizing.

That's a great article, Dave. Thanks for posting it. Wouldn't it be nice if this were something Oliver would offer as a factory option?

I'm curious what else goes in the floor besides those two tanks. I know that there's a heater duct that snakes along the left to the bath, but other than that, is all that space left empty? Also, maybe it's an optical illusion, but are the tanks sitting on top of some aluminum blocks? Is that to keep them off the floor so warm air can circulate? I've also always been curious as to why the Grey tank is L-shaped. I wonder what the reason for that is.

Try onlinemetals.com

That's how we're going to get ours. I don't mind the stripes, but I think the trailers look really good just plain.

Actually, I just scrolled down and saw the other wood table on the swivel base. That's really interesting too.

Looking at the photos on facebook, I think the table looks great and it goes well with the standard wood accents. I guess they didn't do the main table since it would have been too heavy to move when converting to a bed. Is that a wood door where the microwave would go? That's a cool idea if so. I guess just shoot Oliver an email and they'll tell you if that's something they did or if it was owner supplied. The hardware I'm sure is the same. I'd thought about getting Boos or someone to make a nice butcher block table but weight is an issue for us so that wouldnt have worked. This table looks like it might be a bit thinner than butcher block so it might not add too much weight over fiber granite. My thought on durability - for internal components, structural stuff, etc., sure. But for finishes, if that's what an owner wants, then who cares. I think it looks fantastic. Cute pup, too. Oliver seems to attract a disproportionate number of shepherds - clearly a reflection on the superior taste and intelligence of Oliver buyers.

Just a note to say that this problem persists. Right now it's just after 2pm central time. If I go to Recent Topics, the most recent post it shows is one in the Brake Controller Setup thread, posted 4 hours and 41 minutes ago. That post is actually from 8:52pm last night. If I go to the main forum page, the latest post listed there says 1 Minute Ago in the Ollie Modifications Forum. If I go to the Ollie Modifications Forum, it says the last post was actually 12 Minutes Ago. And if I go to that post, I see that it is, in reality, from 10:49am this morning.

I agree. If I had a tow vehicle that didn't have sway control at all, I would certainly put a unit like this one on my list of essentials. Especially if the vehicle's owners manual recommends it. If nothing else, it's inexpensive peace of mind and looks very easy to install. If your vehicle does have sway control, I think you'd want to do a bit of research to see if this controller wouldn't be duplicating something that your vehicle already does. The F150 is top of my list, so I'm probably good, though I'd like some better verification that the sway control will indeed brake the trailer. By the way, as far as attaching this to the trailer goes, I wonder if this wouldn't be a good use for VHB tape. That way you could attach it directly to the frame without drilling while eliminating that extra 1 ½" in width.

With a bit of searching around, I did find this which would indicate that the Ford integrated brake controller does indeed do the same thing... In 2009, Dodge and Ford introduced trailer sway control on their new light-duty pickups. In the Dodge Ram 1500, its stability control system was enhanced to automatically counteract unintended trailer motion by using the truck’s antilock braking and traction control systems to apply individual wheel brakes and/or reduce engine power. It works by asymmetrically applying brake pressure on the tow vehicle’s opposite side to counteract sway. The Ford F-150 uses a more sophisticated trailer sway control system. By taking advantage of its integrated trailer-brake controller and roll stability control, the F-150 can apply both its own brakes and a trailer’s electric brakes without the driver's intervention to stop sway when the vehicle senses excessive rear yaw input from the trailer. That was written by Mike Levine, who is Ford Truck's media guy - though this was written in 2010, so he might not have been at Ford at that time. It's strange because nothing on Ford's website or informational videos on sway control mention anything about activating the trailer's brakes. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/04/ford-demonstrates-trailer-sway-control-for-2011-super-duty.html

So as I understand it, this controller applies the trailer brakes when it detects sway; i.e., it does the same thing as manually applying the trailer brakes via the brake controller, but does so automatically. I'm curious if modern brake controllers don't do the same thing - it's not clear to me on the F150, for example, whether the truck's brake controller and sway control software are linked. Reading about it, it seems like the brake controller controls the trailer's brakes while the sway control acts only on the truck's brakes & steering. I could be wrong, though, and it could be that the sway control will instruct the brake controller to apply the trailer's brakes if it detects sway. I mean, you'd think it would do that, right? I guess like Bill said, you'd better check with Hayes to make sure this thing is compatible with your truck, so that you don't end up with two systems trying to accomplish the same thing. Just generally, are there any situations where this might be a disadvantage? Would it get confused if being bumped around on a gravel road? What happens if you're braking on a curve and the trailer started to step out - would this unit interpret that as sway and lock up the trailer's brakes? Bill, did you look at any other brands before buying this one? If so, what made you choose this one over any other? I'm curious about the GPS thing, too. For the most part, I think that in the situations where you found yourself without a GPS signal that you'd probably not be going fast enough to need this unit, but I can also imagine some situations, like mountain passes, where you might be at highway speed and a signal is spotty. My guess is that in those situations, it would simply shut off and so wouldn't cause any harm.

John, you might be interested in the McHitch couplers from Australia. They're fully articulating and come in a variety of tow ratings. They also come with a weight distribution add-on if you want. A bonus is that the couplers are so unusual that any would-be thief is going to have to completely replace the coupler to carry your trailer away. The only thing I don't know is how easily they'd attach to the Oliver's tongue. http://www.mchitch.com.au/automatic-couplers

I don't know about the Oliver frame being over-engineered. Intuitively, it looks strong, but the only evidence we have that it lives up to its appearance is the fact that we don't have people complaining of failures. Thats good evidence as it goes though. I remember being told that Oliver strengthened the frame at some point - I don't know the motivation behind that. Perhaps it's academic. I don't know what effect the frame stiffness has on towability - perhaps some. More importantly, I don't think the overall stiffness of the frame is as important to an Oliver as it is to many other brands. On most trailers, the frame is truly the foundation off of which everything is built. On the Oliver, the hulls seem structurally sound enough on their own, so the frame mostly serves to distribute the loads from the suspension. One nice bonus of that arrangement is that if the frame ever did fail, I feel like it would be fairly easy for Oliver to lift the hull off the frame for repair or replacement, rather than writing off the entire trailer like you'd have to with the cheapy stick built brands. What's important to consider on the Oliver frame is the tongue section and how well it absorbs vibration and loads from both the trailer and the tow vehicle. Welded aluminum is always a cause for concern - it's a tricky weld in that it is very easy to overheat the aluminum surrounding the weld, which causes it to loose strength and become brittle. That said, a good welder is a good welder, and Oliver seems to have some good welders. One thing I like about their design is that the weld joints are staggered so that there isn't a straight line of joints going from side to side that are subjected to direct bending forces. The staggered arrangement means that each joint for the most part experiences only shear forces. For highway driving, I would put all the trust in the world in it. I'm a little nervous about long-term gravel road use because of the constant vibrations. I agree with John that the EZ Flex equalizers are a good buy if you plan to take the trailer on rough roads. I'm considering going a step further with the Center Point equalizers but that may be overkill and isn't an easy swap out like the EZ Flex. http://www.lci1.com/center-point One thing I'd like Oliver to offer, perhaps as an upgrade, would be a set of gusset plates at the key stress points of the frame that are huck bolted to the frame. Again, that's arguably overkill. I'm definitely looking forward to Bill's thread on his sway control unit.

When I was a kid, my sister and I travelled around in the back of my dad's truck many a time. Times change. Back then, no one wore seat belts, but then a lot more people died in accidents. You have to be a special sort of idiot not to wear one these days. So the same is changing for our pets. It's really simple for me - if you value them enough that you want them to be safe in an accident, then you take the exact same measures that you'd take for yourself or your family. I get that a dog might not choose a crate over the freedom of roaming around the back seat, but by the same token I don't know any children who'd voluntarily choose a seatbelt. But they deal with it, just like a dog will deal with the crate; and it's by far the safest way for them to travel.

John, given the way that net is attached, and the large gap at the top, I have to wonder if that's going to help much in an accident. Dogs really don't mind crates and I'd much rather stop every so often to let them stretch their legs than take any risks. If you still want to use a harness, then take a look at the Sleepypod Clickit - it's designed so that the plastic buckle isn't stressed when it's pulled on, which is where most of them fail. http://sleepypod.com/clickit-sport Here's another crate that looks like a good safety choice - https://www.gunnerkennels.com

When we first started looking into all of this, I was immediately drawn toward the new F150 as a tow vehicle solely because of the wide flat floor area in the rear with the seats folded, which can hold a full sized crate for a big dog with no problem at all. I also did a little bit of research on crates and harnesses to see which ones offered the best protection. Unfortunately we lost our pup to pneumonia shortly afterward so I never finished up the research. But I was surprised at the scarcity of actual testing that goes into many of the harnesses and crates. There are a handful of youtube videos of some third party tests and I think one or two companies that claim to have crash tested their products. I don't remember the brands but I'm sure they'd be easy to find. I do know that the plastic crates aren't worth much in a crash and I definitely got the impression that a harness can do more harm than good in an accident. I was leaning at the time to a welded aluminum crate that I could strap to the floor of the truck. I like the crates like the one below since I think the solid panels would be much better keeping your dog safe in an accident than wire.

Beautiful pups. Glad to see you're putting an emphasis on keeping them safe while traveling.

That's an interesting thought. I don't know if I've ever seen a hail damaged airstream but it makes sense that they'd be more susceptible than fiberglass.