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GrayGhost

Dust Intrusion

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I'm starting some preliminary planning for a western trip in May-June. Last time I made this trip it was in a stick built trailer, and the dust intrusion was HORRENDOUS. Had to completely empty it a couple of times to get it clean enough to sleep in after some treks down long, dry dirt roads.

 

For those who have travelled down similar roads in their Oliver, I'm wondering what to expect for dust intrusion, (I'm hoping and assuming minimal in the living compartment at least), and what you may have done to mitigate it.

 

Thanks.

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GrayGhost


2015 Legacy Elite II Hull # 98


2016 Dodge Ram Laramie EcoDiesel


 

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I'm very interested in hearing other people's experiences and tips as well.

 

My intuitive answer would be that if you can find or make a really good filter for the maxx air fan, then you can run it on low in reverse while driving to pressurize the cabin. If you could make that work, then I think it would go a long way toward keeping dust from getting sucked in through the window seals and such.

 

Beyond that, the fridge vents seem like a prime spot for gathering trail dust, and if you can't seal those then at least remove them at your destination to inspect and blow the dust out so that it doesn't affect the fridge's efficiency.

 

One other spot of concern would be the weeps at the bottom. I suspect that you could get a good bit of dust in between the hulls through those. Which would them become mud the next time you get any condensation. I'm considering replacing them on ours with something I can cap off. But if you can stuff something into them then that might be good enough.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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I stayed at Lone Rock Road in Glen Canyon Rec area for a week and drove Valley of the Gods Road (16 miles, fun) stayed a couple nights.

 

1syyzxr2r7whcctleirjyjmeol3htl0l.jpg.f29fbcd695d1474bfb5e044bc89ee83a.jpg

 

While at Lake Powell there was a huge dust storm, this will wreak havoc, gets into the window seals and track and every crevice, buy not really inside until you open something.

 

Driving the road, has the same affect. However, as noted earlier, the refrigerator vents are huge collectors of it all.

 

I power washed it three times, at a local car wash, that week, red dust everywhere.

 

I expected to vacuum quite a bit out of between the hulls, to protect the electronics, but found virtually nothing, including the areas even close to the weep holes. So yes, if you can fashion a filter to reverse the Maxx Air, you should really have no issue there.

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Randy


One Life Live It Enjoyably


2017 F350 6.7L SRW CC LB


2015 Oliver Elite II Hull #69

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If you google for 'filter grille' then with a little research you should find something you like that will fit the maxx air. You can get anything from the standard stamped steel vents, to wood, or extruded aluminum. Just be sure to check both the vent size and flange size to make sure it will work. One for a 12" duct would probably work. I think you'd need 1.5"-2" clear depth for the grill and filter so to get that you might need to rig a spacer to hold the grill off the ceiling a bit. But the grills all fit standard 1" pleated filters which you can find most anywhere though 12 x 12 might be hard to find - never looked for one that small. You might even be able to squeeze in a thin electrostatic filter in with it.

 

Something like this - https://www.priceindustries.com/products/details/80fh-filter - can be made to a custom size and looks like you could actually get 2" worth of filter in there. Probably deep enough to need a spacer I'd think, but it's a start.

 

Actually, if someone will measure their vent I'll do some research myself since this sounds like a mod that I'll want to do. I'd need the inside clear dimensions, the outside dimensions of the existing flange, and the depth from the flange to the fan housing. I assume that it's ok to cover the controls since you'd have the remote. The little knob doesn't turn when the fan opens via the remote does it? If so, you'd have to be careful not to impede it with anything.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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I'll take some measurements and photos tomorrow...I believe the inside knob does turn when using the remote.


GrayGhost


2015 Legacy Elite II Hull # 98


2016 Dodge Ram Laramie EcoDiesel


 

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My approach with my May Ollie will be:

 

Use a Stone Stomper gravel guard. It reportedly really cuts down on the dust problem by blocking much of the big low pressure gap between truck and the front of the trailer. Not to mention blocking nearly all of the thrown rocks.

 

If that isn't enough, I'll fabicate filters or external covers for the side vents, and maybe add a filter to the roof vent as is being discussed here and run the fan in reverse. The air up top should be pretty clean, until you roll to a stop, at least.

 

Off-road trucks and Jeeps often use snorkles for this very reason. A dust seperator mounted on top of an intake pipe, with a small dc fan drawing in air through an automotive airbox with an inexpensive paper filter, should be _very_ effective. You could mount it in the top of the closet, if you didn't mind losing some shelf space. But maybe it would not be needed.... https://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/filters/products/air-intake/accessories/pre-cleaners.html

 

I started a thread about this topic at Expedition Portal - http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/153642-Fabricating-a-powered-dust-filtration-system

 

I drive on Idaho NFS roads and they can be horribly dusty by the middle of the summer. BTW, There is an earlier thread here about dust but nobody contributed. I am very glad that the topic is getting discussed now - thanks!

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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I expected to vacuum quite a bit out of between the hulls, to protect the electronics, but found virtually nothing, including the areas even close to the weep holes.

That red Utah dust is nasty around electrical stuff due to the very high iron oxide content - it is conductive, to a degree. After spending a week around Moab my truck was overwhelmed with it, and a year later I had to fix some badly corroded wire splices at the trailer wiring, due, I suspect, to moisture over the winter turning the red dust to a conductive mud. This is a great reason to always use heat shrink splices (environmental ones), for any connection outside the dry areas of the body.

 

Lizard tracks in the dust on my back bumper......

 

IMG_4695.thumb.jpg.0eb773c385aa14df80a832e12586e5d5.jpg

 

White Rim Road, Canyonlands, East part.... I do love that place! Click for really big picture.

 

IMG_4696.thumb.jpg.65d2390559358e0825a0ba36bdd1782d.jpg

 

Why are the rocks red?

 

http://files.geology.utah.gov/online/pdf/pi-77.pdf

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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John- Thanks for the link to the expedition portal thread...interesting and helpful info.

 

Overland- The knob does turn when operation the Maxx Fan with the remote. There is 1/2" clearance between the knot and the outside of the flange. The knob is attached with a Phillips screw, so can be removed.  There is 1" clearance between the screen and the outside of the flange. The outside of the flange is 15 - 5/16" square. The inside is not quite square, 13-1/2"x 13-7/16".

 

BTW- After a storm with particularly heavy wind and rain for long duration, I noticed a very small amount of water on the basement floor. I mentioned it to Tommy when I was at the factory in October for some other upgrades, and they put an additional gasket around the rim of the door, pictured below. Since it's at the rear of the trailer and a likely place for dust intrusion, I'm glad it's on there. I don't recall if they are putting it on all new trailers or not.

IMG_0035.jpg.f226dc7ae280fb96adedaf0f2b4cd858.jpg

IMG_0036.jpg.737219cd33a118456c2b67991a7c5b58.jpg

IMG_0037.jpg.435385ff4b170ff4f48c16e9ecb4dee2.jpg

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GrayGhost


2015 Legacy Elite II Hull # 98


2016 Dodge Ram Laramie EcoDiesel


 

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I think I may try trimming a 14x14 version of this down to size, and attach with painters masking tape.

IMG_0038.jpg.03775a86adbf04548683e9a64c7a081c.jpg


GrayGhost


2015 Legacy Elite II Hull # 98


2016 Dodge Ram Laramie EcoDiesel


 

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I think I may try trimming a 14×14 version of this down to size, and attach with painters masking tape.

Here is a link to  good quality pleated furnace filters at a great factory direct price. I have used them for many years in my home.

 

They offer thinner, dual media filters (coarse pre-filter and fine electrostatic filter with one internal  frame). They make a 14 x 14  x 1/2 for specialty applications like RVs, and all their filters are undersized from the named size by half an inch around the outside (thickness is true), so there you go! You're welcome! It should fit with no trimming.

 

"Nordic Pure is very proud of this exciting product that we offer in most all sizes! The Half Inch AC Furnace Air Filter gives our customers the best of both worlds. The first layer has a high capacity, which means it will capture and hold large air particles. This feature prolongs the life of the air filter and enables the second, more efficient, layer to capture the smaller air particles. Half Inch AC Furnace Air Filters are especially great for apartments, campers, boats, buses, RVs, AC and heater window units, and any air system that requires half inch (1/2") air filters."

 

The higher the MERV rating of the filter, the better - a higher number traps smaller particles -  but it will clog more quickly and work the fan harder as it gets dirty. I think you might need to experiment with different versions, but I would pick something in the middle of the range to start... The higher MERV filters do NOT restrict more when clean.

 

https://nordicpure.com/AIR/item/14-x-14-x-12-Half-Inch-Air-Filter?ps=MSw2NzMx

 

I wonder if a plugged up filter might overheat the fan?  Will the dust destroy the fan bearings?

 

How much is a replacement? A pull through design would be better for fan life.

 

The filter will shed dust a little when you remove a dirty one, but it ought to be minimal due to the small size. If you were at home, you could have a running shop vac nearby to deal with spills.

 

If you have a compressed air source on your TV or at home, you could turn on the vent in the normal exhaust direction and gently blow the filter. Much of the dirt should come off and exit onto the roof. How neat is that!?

 

Cool, this looks promising.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

  • Thanks 1

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Thanks for the measurements. When I gat some time this afternoon, I'll see if I can find anything.

 

I think that a temporary solution like taping a filter to the ceiling is surely good enough. Personally, I'd like to find something that I can leave up permanently. Not only will it be easier to deal with, but I don't think that the fan itself is particularly attractive anyway.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Does anyone ever have issues with dust or water getting in around the front door? I couldn't tell when I visited Oliver how well the door seals up when closed.


Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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The 14x14x1/2  filter will probably work fine, thanks for the lead....

 

For now I think I will stay with a temporary filter unless it turns out to be too much of a pain to dismantle. While I agree that the fan is not particularly attractive, I do like how it is somewhat translucent and lets light into the interior during the day.

 

I have an air source to keep tires topped off that would work for clearing dust as well:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Viair-40047-Automatic-Portable-Compressor/dp/B004B68XGC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1485795417&sr=8-3&keywords=viair+air+compressor

 

As far as the main door dust intrusion is concerned-  I have to compress the gasket pretty well to get the door to close tightly. In fact, a couple of times when I thought the deadbolt was locked and wasn't, the door has popped open underway. Given how tightly it closes I don't think I'll have issues with dust intrusion there.

 

 

 

 


GrayGhost


2015 Legacy Elite II Hull # 98


2016 Dodge Ram Laramie EcoDiesel


 

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John,

 

Thanks for that wonderful post with all of the information about the Red Rock area.

 

As far as the Maxfan with inside filter goes, I'm thinking that it's cover  generates a vacuum when open that will have to be overcome with the fan to get any positive pressure.  Then what a mess with the filter inside and the fan full of dust!  I wonder if the cover could be removed and a flat plate made to replace it with a large hole and a shop-vac filter mounted outside.  The filter outside would keep all dust out of the fan and it could be replaced as needed.  Another idea might be to make a setup for the bathroom vent.  A forward looking scoop with filter of some sort.

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John


"I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt."


LE2 #92 (sold),   Black Series HQ19   

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Safari snorkel with pre filter, used passively (ram air while moving). 2200 km off pavement and no dust got through. ... 

 

How to design seals that are effective. .... http://info.kimberleykampers.com/travelling-easily-in-dust-and-mud-with-an-off-road-camper-trailer/

 

Kimberley Kruiser's exotic Always Positive compressed air pressurization system. ... http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/anti-travel-dust

 

As a reasonable and cost effective compromise, how about:

 

Mount an automotive engine air filter box in the propane compartment. Pick one with a large, inexpensive and easy to find filter element.

 

Mount an inline bilge blower motor there, after the filter, to route air through a duct into the bottom of the closet.

 

Mount a vertical 3 inch white heavy wall pvc pipe, extending up close to the roofline, with a Donaldson cyclonic dust separator at the top.

 

The entire intake stack could be uncoupled from the airbox when not needed and the propane cover hole sealed with a plate.

 

There would have to be some sort of permanent bracket up high, otherwise none of the parts would be visible. You could use the bracket to mount your flag pole holder, during an extended camp stay ;)

 

Parts for this would be under $200, depending on how much you paid for the junkyard airbox.

 

This ductwork could all be designed and streamlined into the body of the Oliver, for a future Legacy Expedition model.

 

The key is dust seperation at the very start, and an intake location in the cleanest air possible, for long filter life. I also think this would look cool, but I am a little strange in this regard.

 

You can't draw air directly from inside the propane area, due to risk of propane leakage into the cabin, plus it is a fairly dirty area.

 

With continous positive pressure you don't have to worry about sealing up everything tight. Even the belly weep holes are fine, the Ollie is already a tight enough construction. Plus the system won't dump dirt inside the cabin like a roof vent filter would, during a filter change.

 

John Davies.

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Thanks for the added info and links.... you mentioned the Stone Stomper previously....do you have a US source for one, or are you going to order direct from Australia?


GrayGhost


2015 Legacy Elite II Hull # 98


2016 Dodge Ram Laramie EcoDiesel


 

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I'm interested in the stone stomper also, though I haven't devoted any time to researching alternatives. John, have you spoken with them or Oliver about how to attach it or how well it would fit?

 

Thanks also for posting the Kimberley link. I always forget about the articles they have on their site and they're almost always a good read.

 

The video with the snorkel looks promising. It might be difficult to run a pipe up the front of the trailer due to the curve, so maybe a roof mounted solution would be better? You might be able to come directly down to the closet next to the plumbing vent, maybe in the valley between the curb and the awning.

 

Raspy - that's a good thought on the vacuum behind the fan. Maybe it's worth trialling it with a taped on filter like GreyGhost is considering, just to make sure it works before installing a fancy vent cover.

 

It's also good to know that the main door seals well. I like the double gaskets on the basement door - I'll ask about that for mine and see if they could do the same for the battery box.


Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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You can only get a Stone Stomper from Australia. They are very willing to ship here. If you send them an enquiry, they will send you a complete info packet by email, including how to measure, with lots of pictures and diagrams. I asked if I could publish those pics but they would rather not have them floating around the Internet for anybody to copy.

 

I don't think there is any harm in posting this basic information (note that this is from January 2016 so the prices might have changed a little.) Current exchange rate is USD 0.76 equals AUD 1.00.

 

Thank you for your enquiry on our stone guards. That’s fine for us to deliver to you as we have sent to the US and SA before, all up delivered you would be looking at $840 AUD delivered. {EDIT US$635}

 

Below is the information we need to make a custom made Stone Stomper. We have 3 different bar options that fit on the tongue of the tow bar.

 

Option 1 - Angled. This is our standard angled bracket that fits under the tow ball/Treg/Trigg/Hyland/DO35 also a special bracket for the Auto Coupler.

 

Option 2 - Post. The bar is mounted to the top hole of the Hayman Reese post if it is free.

 

Option 3 – Standard. The bar clamps around the shank of the tow bar tongue, (the solid part on Hayman Reese or tow bar tongue).

Shank With this option you need a minimum of 41mm clearance on the shank when fitted to the tow bar.

 

Option 3 Adjustable. The bar clamps around the shank of the tow bar tongue, (the solid part on Hayman Reese) for MKI and MKII Shank

 

If the A frame length is over 1.8m we like to add support pockets to the sides of the mesh, this allows for pole to be clamped to the top of the A frame supporting the sides of the mesh. The bar is not supplied in the kit and can be from 25x25x1.6mm steel, timber dowel or plastic tube as it only holds up the mesh on tight turns. You may not need the support bar but it’s easier for us to stitch the pockets on during manufacture.

 

We also add on some caravans and camper trailers vinyl inserts, these vinyl inserts can be in areas such as the ends of Hayman Reese bars or brake levers that may hang below the A frame. These are at an extra cost if needed. {EDIT AUS$35 each)

 

They need three measurements to make the guard correctly (length, width at tow vehicle, and width at the trailer, measured _underneath_ the frame in an arc, as well as location of any openings for fixed jack or equalizing chains.

 

Typically they have you screw a steel angle bracket on the lower front corners of the trailer ... sorry ... caravan to provide rear locations to attach the shackles that hold up the canvas. I don't think that would look especially good on an Ollie. I plan to fabricate an aluminum cross bar that will lie on top of the A Frame and extend out to each "corner" of the body. If the center part is stout and hollow, you could make the two outer parts telescope or be removable for storage (or replacement if one side got damaged). Until I can poke around in my own trailer, I am guessing a little since all I have to go by is pictures.

 

I think that a Stone Stomper would be a valuable addition for anybody venturing off pavement, even a little.

 

Send them an email, and they will get you lots of pics and stuff to study. Please respect their wishes and do not post their special pics without permission. Here is a nice high res image picked at random from the Web for you guys to look at:

 

Here's a promotional video. At the 30 second mark, look how clear the air is in front of the trailer! That's where I want a fresh air inlet, up high.

 

 

Finally, it protects the rear of your TV from stones bouncing off the trailer and into your rear hatch and glass. Regular mud flaps, even Rock Tamers, won't do that.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=77684&d=1322

 

From an Expedition Portal stone guard thread ... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/150886-Tongue-mounted-stone-guards?

 

Also, ask Stone Stomper if they can arrange for somebody to manufacture these here in the USA under license. I suggest: the Oliver Trailer Company.

 

stonestomper@bigpond.com

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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I wonder if they'd do a discount on a group order. I'd sign on if they did.


Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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I wonder if they’d do a discount on a group order. I’d sign on if they did.

Well, shipping from Oz has to be pretty costly. I bet they could combine a big order to reduce that part of the equation a little....

 

However, I personally don't think you are going to find more than a very small handful of Ollie owners who would be even remotely interested....

 

i found a shipping calculator. I guessed 30 pounds shipping weight. The steel support bars must be fairly heavy, as is the fabric itself.

 

Shipping-Oz-to-USA.thumb.png.7fa95488c47ff21aca3a29928447f263.pngJohn Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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If you want to learn everything about dust filtration, here is a humongous Donaldson catalog. Starting on page 164 is info on accessories like pre-filtration (particle separators). They also have a large selection of ducting and weird elbows and reducers.

 

https://www.donaldson.com/content/dam/donaldson/engine-hydraulics-bulk/catalogs/air-intake/north-america/F110027-ENG/Air-Intake-Systems-Product-Guide.pdf

 

I think a Top Spin pre filter that self ejects 85% of incoming dust would work at the top of a vertical 3 inch intake stack.... The more efficient units require exhaust scavenging to suck out the extra dirt, which is hardly possible with a system using a small electric fan. The thing I don't know is, would a Top Spin continue to work at say 40 mph down a smooth dusty road? They are designed for slow moving construction equipment.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DONALDSON-TOP-SPIN-PRE-CLEANER-H002437-/151584855001

 

Maybe a forward facing (ram air) snorkel with a foam pre-filter over the inlet would be best, though the oiled foam is a PITA to service and it is even uglier..

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-FILTER-Snorkel-Ram-Head-Safari-Pre-Filter-Universal-/232179971634?hash=item360f013632:g:-KEAAOSw241YfVpG&vxp=mtr

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

  • Thanks 1

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Okay, here goes a simple mind.

 

Why not just reconfigure a Dyson to attach to the bathroom window (or somewhere else), you can slow the motor down suck the air in (pressurize the trailer) and then just empty the dirt container and clean the foam filters every now and then. I believe they are HEPA rated.

 

You're only talking about while traveling right or when out of the trailer. You can store it in the closet and if you don't "reconfigure" it too much you can still use it to clean...

 

The down side is you don't get much in the way of bragging rights to all the filtration specifications when showing off.

 

Can you tell, I like duct tape.

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Randy


One Life Live It Enjoyably


2017 F350 6.7L SRW CC LB


2015 Oliver Elite II Hull #69

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Okay, here goes a simple mind. Why not just reconfigure a Dyson to attach to the bathroom window (or somewhere else), you can slow the motor down suck the air in (pressurize the trailer) and then just empty the dirt container and clean the foam filters every now and then. I believe they are HEPA rated. You’re only talking about while traveling right or when out of the trailer. You can store it in the closet and if you don’t “reconfigure” it too much you can still use it to clean… The down side is you don’t get much in the way of bragging rights to all the filtration specifications when showing off. Can you tell, I like duct tape.

I suppose a Dyson vacuum would work, but you are going to have to run the inverter and it will suck a huge amount of power..... and how would you slow it down?

 

If it is sunny and your battery bank is already charged, it might work OK. I don't think the vac's motor would like running non stop for more than say 30 minutes. You are likely to burn it out in a longer period. On an overcast day or in darkness, you are going to drain your batteries pretty fast. If you don't have solar, then don't even consider this!

 

A simple 12 volt DC bilge blower uses less than 3 amps. ... https://www.amazon.com/Rule-140-Marine-Blower-3-Inch/dp/B000O8AZ8K

 

The areas I explore sometimes have many miles of dusty forest and ranch roads. I need a system that will run all day long if needed.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

  • Thanks 2

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Thanks once again, John.  I'm definitely leaning the same direction.


Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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