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John E Davies

MINIMUM safe tongue weight for an Elite 2?

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Looking for input. I have the front cargo tray and twin 30 bottles. With full propane the tongue weight is 720 lbs with a full load of gas and water in jerry cans. This is using a Shurline 1000 pound tongue scale. I use an Andersen and 10 or 12 psi in the rear airbags. No worries.

 

If I build a rear frame mounted cargo rack like the factory units, bolt my Ollie cargo tray to it and carry the full cans back there, the tongue weight should drop significantly. Say the rack weighs 20 pounds, the tray weighs 16 - I would remove 116 from the front and add 136 to the rear.

 

Can someone tell me how much the ball weight would drop to, maybe 550? Have those of you who carry heavy ebikes or other stuff in back actually weighed your trailers tongues with a scale?

 

I am trying to figure out what a safe minimum weight would be. If I can drop it significantly I might be able to eliminate the Andersen and pump my bags up to compensate. And use an offroad coupler. My truck is rated at 850 max tongue, dead weight. But it moves around too much the way it is now with the chains disconnected.

 

Note I haven’t weighed the axles. I think the trailer weight is normally 6000 pounds with no extra fluids up front, so my current tongue weight is about 10%.

 

I guess I could remove the tray this winter, shift it and the cans to the top of the rear bumper and weigh the tongue to see what happens, but I was hoping for an easy answer.... there is probably a formula involved.

 

Thanks for any comments.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Measure the distance from the centerline of the rack to the centerline of the two axles (D1), then do the same for the hitch (D2).  The rest is algebra: rack weight x D1/D2 = reduced tongue weight.  To measure the effect of taking the cans off the front, measure that distance to the CL of the axles (D3), divide by D2, and multiply that ratio by the weight of the cans.  Add both results together for the total effect of moving the cans and adding the rack.

 

Minimum hitch weight is typically considered 10% of the total.  But of course, you're adding considerable yaw inertia by placing a weight on the tail of the trailer.

 

FWIW, I towed with a basket on my bike carrier once this year with a fairly light weight (surely less than 100 lbs including the rack), and if anything felt that it towed a bit better - possibly because I've been towing without a WD hitch.  But with such a light weight, I think that was just my imagination looking for something that wasn't there.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Thanks, I am away from home and will wait until later to work out the math.

 

Maybe I will just unload the tray and load 125 pounds of steel weights into the rear bumper compartment, and go for a test tow without the Anderson tensioned. That would probably be the quickest way to see if this would do what I hope it would. Now I just need to locate somebody with a barbell weight set I can borrow... or a couple of small anvils. LOL.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Minimum hitch weight is typically considered 10% of the total. But of course, you’re adding considerable yaw inertia by placing a weight on the tail of the trailer.

 

That would be my concern. I would be more inclined to reduce the tongue to some where around #600, and then experiment with the  weight hanging  off the  rear end. Just a SWAG but I would think #300 would be a good starting place.

 

I look forward to the results of your experiments.


Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

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I would be more inclined to reduce the tongue to some where around #600, and then experiment with the weight hanging off the rear end. Just a SWAG but I would think #300 would be a good starting place.

 

I look forward to the results of your experiments.

Do you mean 300 pounds at the back? That seems a little steep but I guess you could work up to it gradually until you put it in the ditch, then back off 50 pounds. LOL.

 

I weighed everything I normally carry (I had no clue my four rubber chocks, ratchet straps and heavy cable lock are 23 pounds!), I measured and poked around online at the metal suppliers. I can make a very sturdy rack similar to the new factory bike rack option, but with my front cargo tray bolted on top in the center. Weight of the structure should be about 50 pounds and the normal load would bring the total to about 155. That is two full gas cans and an empty water can, plus the loose items I mentioned.

 

For kicks I threw four sandbags that I use to hold down a portable canopy onto the rear bumper top. They weigh about 175. The tongue weight dropped from a measured 580 to 530. If I unbolted the empty front tray in my experiment, it would have been about 510.

 

While moving the EMPTY tray back there has minimal effect on the tongue load, when you figure in the cargo weight it drops the tongue weight by around 200 pounds. That is pretty major and even if I can’t entirely eliminate my Andersen, it will make the hitch and truck happier, plus I will get more angle when backing. I do worry about smacking the tray into the truck.

 

Not counting my labor, but paying for some welding, I hope I can get this done by next spring for $300. I am a ittle confused by the quote Oliver gave me for the new Gen3 bike rack delivered..... $950. Something doesn’t seem right for a design with no welding whatsoever.

 

430795E4-478C-4CF7-B057-19A2AC788646.thumb.jpeg.6f9c6b27bd8d0ec7ea0f224df2b63384.jpeg

 

The Sherline 1000 pound hydraulic scale is really nifty .... combined with a digital one stolen from the bathroom for the small items it tells you a lot. It is not super precise and you have to average several readings, but it is way better than just guessing.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

 

 


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Do you mean 300 pounds at the back? That seems a little steep but I guess you could work up to it gradually until you put it in the ditch, then back off 50 pounds. LOL.

 

That was my thought - you mentioned #720 as current, minus the #300 which leaves  somewhere around #420, seems a decent SWAG to start out with. Now I do not know what a recommended minimum tongue weight would be on an Ollie or otherwise. Seems one would want to consider a safe range, just to accommodate casual loading of the interior areas.  According to the numerous internet sources it can be somewhere between  7% - 20 % of loaded trailer. For my application 10% of my initial loaded EII is right at +/-600 pounds - more than enough in my mind.

 

I would also wonder what the Oliver's rear frame would handle given its a stout rear frame. I know what I was told by Oliver - but I don't buy it... I've put 300 on mine and it didn't flinch. I didn't measure the tongue weight, but with it loaded at approximately 180 lbs., the Oliver sits level with the truck and tows like a dream - with and without the Anderson.

 

As for the quoted cost for the Gen 3 - I agree,  it is steep- must be design, material, labor,  and accounting for future warranty costs - that's the answer I got when I questioned prices on several of the options I purchased.... LOL

 

SWAG =- sophisticated wild ass guess -for those wondering...

 

RB

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Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

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