New Tow Vehicle choices

[Overland]

Looking at the battery and range specs for the Rivian, you could extrapolate that a 400kWh battery pack would probably be enough to tow 600 miles (~2.2 miles per kWh and for the sake of argument a 30% loss in range for towing).  That assumes no gains in motor, aerodynamic or other efficiencies.  400,000Wh/480v = 833.3 amp hours / 8 hours overnight charge time = 104.2 amps.  That's reasonable from a wiring standpoint.  For that matter, a 240v/200A service gives you 400,000/240/200 = 8.3 hours overnight charge time - again, perfectly reasonable.  That's also reasonable from a battery/range standpoint, roughly double the current capacity.  For comparison, the maximum range for a Tesla S has increased 2.4 times over the last five years.

 

Also, I'm running these numbers assuming 8 hours on the road at 75mph.  Most people only tow at 60 or 65 and if you're not barnstorming national parks like my wife and I, you might only want to be on the road around 6 hours per stint.  6 hours at 65mph is only 390 miles.  Assume you want a 600 mile advertised range for an ample safety margin, which would be a 270kWh battery pack.  270,000/240/100 amp service = 11.25 hours of charge time, which is still reasonable for overnight charging, and accomplished without much outlay from RV parks.  So I'm going to predict that with only a 50% increase in range we're going to see some early adopters.

[SeaDawg]

I think Rivian is smart to go after the two hottest markets from the get go.  Though their largest issue will be the charging on the go issue, just as John pointed out.  That's why Tesla built their supercharger network--to make using their vehicles realistic.

 

But, many pickups never leave a small geographic area. I  hardly ever drive my Silverado more than 100 miles in any given day. Most contractors and repairmen could easily stay within one charge in a day's driving, at least around here. And, many of the SUVs I see are also driven locally,  to and from school,  work, and stores.

 

And, as Overland  pointed out, the ev would be great for fulltimers, many of whom tend to stay in one place for months at a time.

 

I wonder how Rivian will deal with the lack of a charging network for those who do need it. Public chargers are becoming more commonplace, but usually  fairly slow,  and designed for use while at work or shopping.

 

Sherry

[Overland]

For one, I think that eventually EV makers will need to standardize their charging.  Tesla's Superchargers are a great marketing tool for them now, but it doesn't make much sense for every manufacturer to build independent charging networks.

 

But after running those numbers, I'm kind of surprised that RV parks aren't currently advertising themselves as EV charge stations.  They're conveniently located and spaced on highways, there are always empty spots, aren't a terrible place to hang out for an hour or two, and converting/adding some 100 or 200 amp pedestals wouldn't be too much of an outlay.

 

I think if I owned an RV park, this stuff would be occupying most of my free brain cells.

[BackofBeyond]

You never know. I thought the Betamax system was the greatest ever. Nobody knows what future battery types will be able to do.

 

Yep, and may not have anything to with electric storage, could be something else entirely.

 

I was involved in the manufacture of all electric trucks in the 1990's - Chevrolet S-10. Hi tech then, but Old fashioned heavy lead-acid batteries, the tech has come a long way in the last 20 years.... also - don't forget the hydrogen powered vehicles - yes there were working  -pretty decent - proto-types.  JD's cold fusion power pack may indeed be next. Just because the gov is pushing solar/electric doesn't mean there won't be some fringe disrupter that just blows up the current model.

 

As "cool" as the Tesla seems to be, in the end, it will be someone else that will be 2nd, third, or later to market that eventually achieves the Tesla dream. Not to dis the Tesla folks, but , well, the biz model is not sustainable.

 

I myself am holding out for something  powered by deuterium fusion reactors, yes, the futuristic Star Trek impulse engines that let earth ships travel well -interplanetary.

 

Fun to read the posts,

 

RB

 

 

[SeaDawg]

In 2016, a Canadian couple traveled trans Canada in their new model x towing an Alto Safari. They rarely could use a supercharger.  Usually charged at campsites.

 

That went so well (with some days of range anxiety),  that they continued on to Florida,  across the US, and back to BC. Trip time was about 10 months.

 

https://teslaxcanada.com/

 

It can be done, but takes some planning. And, probably not John's kind of off trail adventures..

 

Sherry

[John E Davies]

some fringe disrupter that just blows up the current model.

 

LOL, that is great. You made me smile. Thanks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[SeaDawg]

BackofBeyond wrote:

some fringe disrupter that just blows up the current model.

LOL, that is great. You made me smile. Thanks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

That's  pretty much what Tesla did. Started the fringe disruptor chain.

 

I suspect it will make Elon Musk happy when more disruptors enter the market.

 

 

[SeaDawg]

new style battery pack and cooling?

 

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/rivian-r1t-r1s-electric-truck-suv-battery-pack/

[BackofBeyond]

It must just be me, but that Rivian is just ugly, looks like a Ford Flex knock-off.

 

Tesla,  a nice Federally funded, pseudo tech company, run by an eccentric rich dude, that has yet to meet its own metrics. I'll grant you, the cars look cool, perform to design specs, but Tesla doesn't have any tech that is all that proprietary. More PT Barnum than not. As some in the industry and from the auto press contend,  Tesla is more auto manufacturer than a tech company.  Elon for all his brilliance, has no idea how to run a high volume manufacturing business, and  that will be his downfall - great idea, pitiful execution. Does not make money selling vehicles, but does ok trading environmental credits. But, as Seadog states, he got the ball rolling.

 

Sometime, after I've long turned to dust, the Oliver of the future, will be hurtling itself down some lonesome trail, silently hovering along, headed to some cool spot- back of beyond.  Until then, I'll take my dino powered behemoth with my Ollie in tow, into the wilderness,  desperately seeking solitude from the constant droning, or is it cacophony, of electronic intrusion.

 

Sorry OP, I just couldn't help it...I'm a natural - disrupter. Ha

 

RB

 

 

 

 

[BackofBeyond]

https://www.wsj.com/video/the-secret-to-why-a-tesla-costs-so-much-hint-batteries/65F3A21D-0837-4DA6-B739-612124815603.html?mod=article_inline&mod=hp_lead_pos8

 

Good summary on Tesla Battery

 

 

[Overland]

I'm starting to like these guys -

 

[SeaDawg]

That slideout kitchen is awesome...

 

 

 

[John E Davies]

That is pretty cool. And if you haul this behind your motorhome it can charge itself. Or you could have your big onboard generator running also, with an umbilical to provide even quicker charging.

 

I am not yet convinced about the truth in their extravagant range claim (400 miles) and I am not sure I would drive one of these on a completely solo back country trip, but as a toad behind a big RV it would be awesome for exploring those primitive high passes and desert byways.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA