routlaw

I did consider this method too @jd1923 but by the time I got to this point honestly I was tired of working on the project. FWIW in the conversation when I measured DC voltage it perfectly matched the current SOC of my Epoch battery which at that time was 14.4 volts. This gave me assurance there was no voltage drop. I want to add this is not an easy install nor a quick one either. Now for the vast majority of campers it probably takes a couple of hours max but due to the Olivers lack of a basement foundation and access one has to re-engineer a platform for the WH to rest one. The old 1x1.5 aluminum tube originally used which by the way was very wobbly on my unit due to the bolts used not being screwed all the way in. Worse still bouncing had called some indentation on the insulation of old WH creating a less than ideal surface for the unit to rest on. Reusing this piece sideways with a 1/4 shim installed on top seemed to provide the right height of 1.25 inches. The new Fogatti is much shorter than the older Suburban thus the change in support position. It's also considerably lighter in weight too not to mention the extra 50 lbs of water you're carrying with a Suburban. For anyone contemplating this change there are other things to consider. The soft copper tubing to the WH is far too long for the new Fogatti which requires a significant amount of bending or shortening. If shortened then one has to also buy a flaring tool if you can even find one. I couldn't. Since the copper tubing on the Oliver runs along the outside of the trailer this is the harder/stiffer version of soft copper tubing which means it's a ***** to bend and maneuver. This was quite the wrestling match given the cramped access in the Oliver. Water fittings have to be re-considered as well. I chose to use two double threaded nipples to join the old half inch fittings attached to the pex pipe with a short run of flex water pipe to the NPT connections on the WH. The old pex pipe does not even come close to lining up with the location of the new NPT connections. While my method works not sure this was the best arrangement and may revisit it at some point. I also might revisit my method of creating a platform for the new unit to rest on. According to Fogatti what I did was fine but only by a half inch or so. Eventually I might create a second platform further toward the back of the unit supported by the frame of the trailer. Also considering using spray foam insulation under new unit but this can get messy if not done right, but it would provide a decent foundation for the unit to rest on. Hope this helps

Insta Shower 9 Pro, which also fits the basic 13x13 hole with 15 x 15 door. However the fit was tight and just a titch out of square from the original install of the Suburban. Used a drill with rotating drum sanding attachment and vacuum in the other hand to sand away critical parts for an easier fit. After a few efforts it slide in nicely. I chose this unit over some of the less expensive models due to its mixing chamber/valve the less expensive models did not have. These WH are said to be 74% efficient ± and would bet the Suburban is nowhere near this level of efficiency. It's also very quiet and very easy to winterize. Your Suburban has a 15x15 door but the actual hole or rather square is 13x13. The Fogatti comes with a surround trim piece but will not work on the Oliver due to the recessed indentation for the WH and Furnace. Not a big deal as the supplied gasket and caulk easily seal the unit well. Finally finished the install today and thanks to @Snackchaser for his suggestion of capping off the two other blue and yellow/green wires and running an additional black wire from a bolt on the chassis to the black wire on the WH. Everything seems to be working perfectly. Had gorgeous day in Big Sky country after frigid night before. I really like the remote control for adjusting water temp to your taste. The fit and finish on this product is on an order of magnitude better than the older Suburban. The engineering and tech seems to also be light years ahead of the Suburban which by comparison seems like a relic out of the end of WWII. Is it perfect? Probably not, but thus far I like it much better than the older Suburban WH. LMK if there are more concerns or questions.

Makes sense to me thus the comment earlier regarding using crimp connectors at the final stage

I agree, also don't like the idea of hot wires laying around, capped off or not. Having a cold snap tonight (24º) got to run a heater out there so it might be a day or so before I can take the wires out from the panel though. Just finished winterizing. The fuse is front and center once you open the door from the outside very easy to get to, also a piece of cake to empty what little water there is in the WH. Way easier than dealing with the Suburban IMO.

It does, thanks. Never knew that switch was also used as a reset. Regardless. You are correct, see photos above for pic of the control panel which works nicely. There is a power switch on the new WH which can be seen from the exterior view photo. You are also correct in that running the new black wire straight to ground and only connecting the red wires allows for the unit to work. Oddly enough as previously mentioned the new WH works perfectly with both the blue & yellow/green wire connected to the black wire from the WH. It will not work if using those two wires individually connected. This aspect is a mystery but clearly the two combined wires (blue, YG) create the same connection as running the WH black wire to ground. Given the location of the Oliver WH switch and lack of access at least on our hull it's not worth the trouble to eliminate that switch from the system but in theory yes it should be possible. Its not that big of a deal though to use, no different than years past with the old WH. Also @jd1923 good points on eliminating the AC wires at the panel. As for fuses for 12 V DC there is a fuse located directly on the new WH and they provided an extra with the kit. I would assume this more or less suffices for a fuse inline at the panel but maybe not.

Thanks @Geronimo John and @jd1923 for the additional comments. Clearly I have not provided adequate information regarding the install. No the Fogatti WH only uses 12 VDC to run the internal circuits, sensors etc and which also then feeds back to its remote control which is a nifty device itself. The power to heat water is only through propane and not AC and certainly not DC voltage. The wires themselves coming from the Fogatti are probably 16 AWG or 18 AWG at best and they are intended to connect to the same wires that fed the Suburban sensors circuit board, nothing more. Attaching a few photos below to illustrate (hopefully) the layout and wiring situation. I will be crimping those connections later on today rather than the wire nuts but used those just to make sure everything is working ok before proceeding to final installation. In the first photo the black and red wires represent those coming from the WH and as you can see I have red to red (+) and black to blue & green/yellow (- & GND). The new WH works fine this way oddly enough. The next photo is the same just pulled back further to illustrate the entire enchilada a bit better Remote below with two blue wires (non polarity) from the same wiring harness of the new WH inside the basement where the new WH is installed using 1/4 - 20 SS screws, lock nuts and fender washers rather than the pitiful pop rivets initially used for the Suburban WH. Note this IS a two person job. 1/4-20 stainless steel screws viewed from the outside though the bottom row I used self tapping Big Timber screws into a block behind the FG wall. There simply is not access to tighten nuts and screws on the bottom row. Everybody knows what a locking nut looks like but just in case someone else tries this method thought might be helpful.

Get well soon, and hopefully a quick recovery

After many attempts finally got the thing to work but only after I used both the blue - and green/yellow ground wires connected together and to the negative black terminal of the Fogatti WH. The device would not work using either the blue or green/yellow wires individually connected to black wires of the Fogatti. So apparently it would be better to connect the green/yellow wire to some metal portion of the trailer, correct? I should add once operating the Fogatti worked great.

Understood good luck with JD. The HW switch I am referring to is the one remote switch that Oliver installs on the interior not the switch at the new WH. IOW's I'm still confused. Thanks for trying though. Thus far nothing is connected to the new WH other than the propane. I am trying to figure out which wires to connect to the new WH. Many thanks.

I probably did not explain my situation thoroughly @Snackchaser. The old Suburban is completely out of the Oliver, AC wires are taped off and disconnected. When measuring the remaining 12 volt wires they have not been connected to anything yet. If measuring with the HW switch off, crickets, I get nothing other than small microvolts. The switch has to be turned on to obtain anything close to 12 volts +. So if I connect the red + wire and the blue - wire to the new Fogatti it will only receive 12.2 volts of input. That amount of DC current is not enough to effectively run the Suburban furnace based upon past experiences and it might have a negative impact on the new WH with only 12.2 volts. Or am I missing something? Thanks

So I am finishing up the install of a new water heater, tankless version to replace the old Suburban. Retrofitting into the Oliver is NOT an easy task but more on that later. So on the old Suburban there are 3 12 volt DC wires connected to the 12 volt terminals, red for +, blue for -, and yellow/green for ground. However when I measure the voltage across the wires with HW switch turn on, the red to blue measures only 12.2 volts but when I measure the red to green/yellow @ ground I received the full SOC of my Epoch batter which is 13. 7 ± volts. The new Fogatti tankless only uses two DC wires, red and black, and no AC connection at all. I am inclined to think in my case to use the red and green/yellow wire for the full DC voltage available to me. Can anyone explain why the red to blue wires only return a reduced voltage of 12.2 volts DC? My gut instinct is the wiring was done incorrectly at the factory build swapping the negative terminal for the ground but this is just a stab in the dark not being totally versed in DC electronics. Thanks and appreciate any insight on this.

All good points @FloraFauna couldn't agree more.

Here is my unscientific take on the insulation of the Oliver. Over the last few days I've been doing some mods to our EII, new ceramic toilet install, new bath faucet and shower head etc. With the rather coolish to cold weather we have been having through the month of April I hooked up to house/shore power to run an oil filled portable heater running at 900 watts continually for the last several days. Early morning temps outside this morning were at 32º (according to the Weather Channel) with frost on the roofs in the hood. Temp inside the trailer was 47º. The actual temp according to our exterior house thermometer was 37º indicating a max difference of only 10º from trailer interior to outside air. If taking the WC temps as the gospel then there would be a difference of 15º, neither one being very impressive. That same heater installed in any one of our basement rooms (insulated with 1.5 inches of sprayed foam) of our house would have turned the room into a sauna or near about. Conclusion: the Oliver is not a 4 season camper. It might be along the southern perimeter, ie FL, TX, AZ, SOCAL etc but not further north. This isn't to say you can't camp in some cold weather as most of us have at one time or the other. Keeping even a moderate temp in freezing winter weather will tax the system seriously requiring huge amounts of propane to keep the furnace running nearly non stop. In summary at best I would describe the Oliver as an extended season camper but certainly not four season. The notion that the Oliver has an R value of 18 is pure bullocks. Oliver is not alone in this regard as there are many manufacturers stating four season camping specs but fall far short. Recently I was at a local RV dealer that sells Emperial Outdoors RV which truly are four season ready. The salesman I talked with related a previous winter day when the temps were bitter cold (-22º) and the Emperial Outdoors RV setting in the sun was measuring about 40º inside without a furnace running. Even if the story was wildly exaggerated which I doubt that is a massive amount of difference between an Oliver and a true four season camper. In our EII the bottom half of the inner shell was never insulated with the Propex material making the insulation issue potentially worse. In summary the Oliver is an excellent travel trailer (not without some issues) but the company should not be promoting it a a 4 Season camper which is really is not. Not even close IMHO.

Yep, I've seen this video too. FWIW you can find all sorts of opinions on everything on the internet both positive and negative. I know of one person who has tried them all, Suburban, Truma, but uses the Fogatti now and likes it the best.

Just to clarify quickly. The Fogatti tankless are DIY install or can be and as I understand it also repairable by individuals given their error code readouts if an individual has one show up. They are Nothing like the Truma company which I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole due to the issues stated above and more. Depending on the model the prices range from $500-$800 give or take a few bills. Their efficiency rating is around 93-94 or so with endless hot water which of course you wouldn't use with an Oliver due to its rather smallish fresh water tank. As for the Fiamma 45S @Wayfinder we rarely use ours but do on occasion. Setting it up is a PITA but I guess with practice one can become more efficient and for what ever reason ours will not totally close on the rear end. Its been that way for years.

Timely subject just about to make the decision to change to a Fogatti tankless water heater. This seems to be divisive subject amongst RV folks but I certainly like the idea of it.

Thanks for posting those. Have a number of his videos but not the one with the bearing buddy what ever that is.

There is an excellent YouTube tutorial by the Trailer Smith illustrating the difference between never lube, easy lube and traditional bearings. I would encourage you to look up this video as he tears each one apart and explains his takes in depth. I also like the Husky pad, keep three of them around and one always comes with me on trips.

Yep, this is exactly why I have learned to do all maintenance myself on our Oliver. Local shops around here charge $300 per hour too and have months wait to time get in. Not an option.

Agreed I also like Mortons videos too. Smart guy for sure. The idea of a truck camper has never had any appeal to me however. Its my understanding they have now transitioned to an towable RV.

Excellent, appropriate response to the subject @topgun2 . I would like to add my thoughts along those lines. Likewise I have traveled some really rough roads, backcountry gravel and dirt without a scratch so far. By no means am I stupid enough to take the Oliver down serious overland roads made most famous in the desert southwest, ie White Rim Trail, The Maze and so forth and so on. There are other rigs better suited to this endeavor such as MDC from Australia, Escapod, Bean Teardrops, Pause, and especially the Emperial Outdoors made in WI. I've seen and been in those and there is nothing like them made in this country I am aware of. Like the Olivers they are expensive, even more so, but built to the extreme made to go anywhere and are a true 4 season camper. Many RV's claim 4 Season, they are not in most cases. Regarding hitches and suspensions there is one reason why we still have leaf sprung suspensions and traditional ball hitch mounts on travel trailers. They are inexpensive for the manufactures to produce. While it may make sense to put leaf sprung suspensions on trucks due to their ability to carry very heavy loads installing them on a travel trailer makes no sense at all other than cheap manufacturing cost. Same goes for the traditional ball hitches. From a safety standpoint this was the inspiration for the invention of the Hitch-Ezy due to the designers wife having rolled over completely with her trailer and TV. I've lost count of the number of YouTube videos I've seen of trailers rolling over and taking the TV with it. With a fully articulating hitch this would not happen. While I don't have any personal experience using an articulating hitch it is my understanding the implementation allows for easier maneuvering, backup, and safer towing and traversing even mildly rough terrain. I don't know what the flex angles are on a typical ball hitch but on more than one occasion I've avoided going into backcountry BLM/USFS due to some very steep angles of approach. The BLM Overlook campground west of Grand Junction is a classic example where 99% of the jeep trail is easy to navigate with an Oliver until the final drop off which is quite steep. I would not be comfortable taking the Oliver through this. Otherwise a fabulous campground for tenters, vans, and small RV's with more accommodating hitches and suspensions. Leaf spring suspensions are rough, stiff and harsh period. Again they might make sense for utility trailers carrying very loads such as horses, construction equipment and supplies but for RV's it's simple and cheap to manufacture. There really is no other compelling reason to build an RV this way. There is a reason the automotive industry went to 4 wheel independent suspensions decades ago, it's safer, more comfortable allowing for greater dexterity while driving. I know of no one who has transitioned to an independent RV suspension with a desire to return to leaf springs and same could be said for the articulating hitch. For me, I would love to be able to go a little deeper and bit further off the beaten path safely without being an extreme overlander thus the interesting in different hitches and suspensions. As a final note on the leaf springs, just recently came across the Road Master mod kits for leaf springs and by all accounts appears to be far superior to the Dexter Easy Flex and other such flex kits made by Lippert and Morryde both apparently better than the Dexter version.

@Wandering Sagebrush did you ever try one of these? Just ran across this hitch this morning and find them an excellent alternative but not sure the installation bolts that come with the kit would suffice with our Olivers.

I would take this new hitch from Morryde over the Bulldog hitch hands down. Not sure this guy provides the best demonstration but it gets the point across.

Perhaps some of you will find this rather long video on the MDC line of Australian off road campers interesting. The attention to and level of detail this company goes to is off the charts.

I have to admit the Black Series are not the most attractive campers out there but they do appear to be rugged. Thanks for the info.