Overland

After talking to many people at the rally, we've decided that the added storage and flexibility of a pickup bed is a must for us, so we've crossed the Land Cruiser and Discovery off our list. We're both going to test drive the F150 and F250 back to back again tonight and will make our decision this week. I made a little spreadsheet comparing the extra cost of some of these vehicles vs the projected payback from better gas mileage and really the only one that makes any sense from that standpoint would be the Disco, at about an 8 year payback. The F250 diesel would be a 17 year payback and the added interest cost on the more expensive Land Cruiser would actually be more than the fuel savings so it would never pay for itself . And that's assuming that I can run regular gas in the Cruiser. If I have to use premium, then the fuel cost is higher as well. In terms of towing range, the Land Cruiser is the worst at an estimated 295 miles towing vs the Raptor at 324. The F250 of course is the best option in that regard with a 510 mile towing range. I estimated the Disco at 423. For those calculations and the cost calculations above, I assumed a towing MPG of 9 for the Raptor, 12 for the Land Cruiser, 18 for the Disco Diesel, and 15 for the F250 Diesel.

On our factory tour some time ago, there was a unit set up with a generator and Robert cranked it up for us so we could see how loud it was. When he did, the inverter started making a high pitched whine that was so annoying that I had to ask him to turn it off. Interestingly, it didn't bother my wife as much and Robert said that he couldn't hear it at all. But to me it was like an icepick to the ear.

Looks great - there was some talk at the rally this weekend that Oliver is going back to the short drawer there. I agree that the flip out isn't very useful and is a potential ongoing maintenance issue.

Thanks for the photos. I'm curious why both the access port and door on the curb side. Could the door not be positioned so that you have access to everything you need without having the added port?

I've never had that happen to me. Are you using an iPad/tablet? If so, it could be a memory issue. I know that with my old iPad, if I had multiple tabs open, or a few memory hogging tabs, then it would occasionally reload tabs when I switched back and forth. It just didn't have enough memory to keep all the tabs active, so it would flush out an inactive tab to load the active one.

Congrats. Judging by the sunshine, you guys must have timed your pick up just right to miss all the rain that's come though this past week.

I'll second that recommendation. We go at least twice a year - helps that the in laws live in hot springs. Springtime is beautiful, and if you're ever there during the holidays, they do the most amazing light show you've ever seen.

Thanks, I'm going to. I actually went by the Toyota dealership today but they didn't have any in stock.

I went today and drove the Discovery. I'm not sure what to think. It's pretty much a modern version of my 15-year old X5, but with much better ground clearances and AWD system. Really nice materials, good highway handling, acceleration, etc. It's the slightest bit clumsier feeling than I expected - a bit more body roll and bounce than the X, even though it has low profile street tires compared to my larger profile all terrains. Nothing that would bother me, but it was noticeable. The tech is amazing, but I think I prefer Ford's simpler Sync to the Disco's system if only because it's much faster. It's about 4" wider and 12" longer inside than the X. I'd give up a ton of storage vs a truck of any sort. From the outside, it looks like an X5 in need of a better diet. I have to say that it doesn't really feel like it belongs off road, not that I doubt that it's capable. Part of that is due to the fact that it lowers down when parked so you can't really get a feel for it's ground clearance. I do know that I'd have a terrible time finding all terrain tires for its 19" wheels. It doesn't feel like it should tow what it does, either. Maybe that's a compliment - 8,200lbs and a 750lb tongue weight, which should be perfectly fine for the Ollie. I drove the diesel which lowers that to 7,700lbs. Tongue weight stays the same. The tag on the hitch only listed weights for a load carrying hitch, so I'm going to guess that you can't use a WD hitch on it. It's a unibody design, so that would make sense. But with a 750lb rating it shouldn't be an issue. I liked the diesel, and the salesman told me it was going to be 28mpg highway. Payload on the one I drove was 1,200 lbs. Subtracting out maybe 700lbs for tongue weight and 260 for my wife and me leaves 240lbs, which isn't a lot for camping gear. But maybe we could shift heavier stuff to the trailer and transfer it to the Disco only when needed. They package their options poorly. For example, I can't get a low range transfer case without getting third row seats - figure that one out. It's nice though, and when the wife goes to drive it, she'll want it. I also dropped by the Ford dealer and drove an F250, just for contrast. I really enjoy the way those drive. To me, it's a much better ride than the 150 - so much better balanced and stable feeling, despite the added weight. I could tow three Olivers with that thing and probably carry another in the bed.

Thanks for the info on the Seresto. I'll have to remember that if we get another pup. I was never comfortable with frontline - maybe it was irrational, but I always figured that I wouldn't want to put it on me, so why am I O.K. with it on my dog? We were fortunate though to never have a flea or tick problem in our yard. It was only when we went out to the forest that he'd pick up his little companions. For the most part, I could brush them out before putting him back in the car but at least three or four times a year I'd miss a few. Fortunately we don't have lyme or spotted fever here so there isn't a huge danger. That's changing quickly though - a neighbor of ours came down with spotted fever last year from a tick that he picked up in east TN. Buzzy, that's a cute pup!

I've seen 16/21 for the gas and 21/26 for diesel. From what I've read, it's the same diesel that's going into the F150 next year. Jalopnik quoted a LR engineer saying that the wading depth was closer to a meter, but at that point the rear end starts to float.

Anyone here looked at the new Land Rover Discovery? Specs seem decent.

There are tunes, but at least for the HO engines, they're all performance based. Perhaps when the new Navigator comes out with the same engine, someone will make an economy tune. I had seen the article you linked to, but mostly dismissed it. In the videos they posted of their trip, that kid obviously wasn't concerned about mileage at any point. I think if you're hauling it at 85 while towing, then that figure is probably accurate. Some people on the Raptor forums are reporting 22 and others 12, so I think with those big turbos that the engine is very sensitive to how it's driven. If I got 14 towing, I'd be O.K.; 12 I would begrudgingly accept. It's more the range than the cost that I think would bother me. The diesel option, at least for trucks, doesn't seem to make sense to me. With the extra you pay for fuel and the big up front cost, you've got to go a ton of miles before you break even. Maybe with SUVs it's different. You get the range, though.

I've always wondered why Oliver uses that gasket instead of one of the Fiamma ones I see on their website. I wonder if none of them fit correctly for some reason.

Reed, like you say, there are good arguments to be made for diesels. I just didn't think that your first post was one of those. I'm actually reconsidering my TV choice because of the real world mileage figures I'm seeing. I suspect that the EcoBoosts aren't giving Ford the numbers they wanted, the high output version especially. I saw an early sticker where they put the Raptor's highway mileage at 21, but the EPA ended up setting it at 18, and real world towing some say is around 10. We'll see. My wife is getting a Tesla 3 for her commute so my questionable defense for the truck has been that she'll provide my carbon offset, but if it really only gets 10 mpg while towing, that becomes a bit much for me to argue.

I've never thought about that. I've had to switch back to glasses from contacts, so thanks for the heads up.

Sorry, but if you're suggesting that diesel engines don't produce NOx and other smog producing gasses and particles, then you're deep into the well of alternative facts.

Just to toss another option out there, for those who are sporting the coverless spare look, a tire mounted rack for a jeep might be a good choice...

Ah, that looks very much like the rack that Steve built for the Outlaw Oliver. It looks pretty useful - does Oliver's price for the new rack include the actual bike rack, or is it just the cross bars and then whatever accessories you want to add? I wonder if it's deep enough to fit a standard cargo basket. Someone used to sell a 2' wide half-rack basket that would certainly work there. And I suppose you could find a rooftop cargo bag that would work well there too.

Thanks Don. I knew at least one Oliver owner would have one already - seems like we all gravitate towards the same sort of products. I'm glad to hear your comment on the size, since I was worried that it might be bulky and cumbersome. Please give us your review once you get it fired up. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I see that both companies use 304 stainless, which in my experience discolors almost immediately with heat.

Not a bad idea at all to have that access panel. I'm curious where that photo was taken. Do you have a team of camera equipped mice working for you?

I have to admit that I've become one of those people who don't like campfires. Not that I don't like the idea of them, but over the years, the romance of the campfire has become outweighed by the smoke and hassle. The gas fire pans are an obvious alternative, and more often these days your only choice, but they're also gas hogs. So I'm interested in these "smokeless" fireplaces like the Breeo and Solo Stove. They use a secondary burn that supposedly eliminates most of the smoke and makes the fire burn hotter and more evenly. They're supposed to light much more easily as well. The claims seem legit, based on the reviews, but I'm wondering if anyone here has one and can share their opinion on them.

For most people and most trips it shouldn't be an issue, but if you arrive in the middle of nowhere with a day's less water than you'd planned, then John is correct - it would be a big deal. That's pretty much our reserve when we camp. Capping or plugging the vent likewise shouldn't be a problem in most situations, but it is something to keep in mind if you're someplace with large temperature swings, in which case you might want to make sure that you vent it once or twice a day as you would with unvented fuel cans. I suppose leaving a tap open would accomplish the same thing. From Bill's pic is looks like a plug might do the trick, maybe fixed with a chain so that it isn't lost. I don't see a screen at all - all the more reason to filter your drinking water I suppose.

John, here's a picture of the vent. You can see that it makes a simple bend and exits in front of the wheel well. I don't know what sort of screening is on it. Until Reed mentioned it, I hadn't thought about losing water, but as part of my effort to make the lower hull more water tight, I had planned to make some sort of cap for the vent to prevent possible contamination in the case of a water crossing, and/or perhaps moving it to a higher location on the side wall. You could also potentially lengthen the hose to give it a deeper bend.

Please do take photos, and I'll be interested to see your fresh water retrofit.