Atmos 4.4 vs the Dometic FreshJet 3 (13,500BTU) vs Penguin II

[theOrca]

It never fails to amaze me how far out in front of Oliver corporate  we owners are. I inquired of HWY RV in Salem Oregon as to the install of a Dometic Fresh Jet 3 to replace the Penguin II noise generator in my hull number 615. They messaged Jason E, and he advised them that "as we have not installed a Fresh Jet 3, we advise caution as the fit might not support the unit properly."  That is a very reasonable decision, and stopped me from proceeding. However, in searching the Forums it appears that at least three of us have switched out the A/C and no one mentioned any problems. Lack of reporting is not "data," so I have asked Dometic to provide me with  footprint and bolt pattern drawings of both the Penguin II and Fresh Jet 3. Will they do it? I guess that depends on the attitude and enthusiasm of the person at Dometic who gets my email. I sure hope they do as I am very leery of proceeding when "not 100% sure."

Could someone who HAS switched a Penguin II for a FreshJet 3 please comment on footprint and bolt pattern? (Please!)

In summary, so far I have not found actual data as to the direct comparison of any of the three units mentioned. If and when I get actual data, I will append it to this topic. I can say that I really liked the attitude and professionalism of the service folks at HWY RV in Salem, Oregon. If my replacement project becomes a go, you can be sure that they will be the folks that do the work.

[rferg800]

following

[jd1923]

They should all fit the 14x14 opening. It's more so re thermostat change and how the condensate drips. Truma requires a special fiberglass build.

Personally, I've had enough of Dometic, with the noisy Penguin in the Oliver and another Dometic where the fan lost alignment, shifted and jammed beyond repair in the Bigfoot we had. Anything but Dometic for me.

@Geronimo John and several others have installed Houghton models, many threads here. @rideadeuce has scheduled a professional install of the Atmos 4.4 next week and I'm sure Mike will post info on that. I'm looking forward for this feedback compared to cited Houghton issues.

Both of these models run the fan continuously which is something I will NOT live with. Known issues are humidity, not an issue for our climate, but I'm not sleeping with a fan running all night. Houghton has cycling issues, without moving the thermistor or something, not cool. There is a relay fix for the Houghton fan and if we go Atmos, I will figure out a relay fix, or hopefully somebody online does so first. The Atmos switches automatically from cooling to heat pump and can do so at dawn when it gets colder. I cannot get confirmation whether there are two set temps, for cooling vs. heat. Again, not cool. Is there a manufacture out there that understands these issues, who makes a better design?

[theOrca]

5 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

They should all fit the 14x14 opening.

Footprint and the required opening are different subjects, not at all the same. Footprint equates to where and how much support the roof provides the upper unit. You do not want unsupported weight when fiberglass is being stressed by having that weight  transferred to it by leverage. It is desirable to have the entire floor pan of the upper unit supported by the roof. Bolt pattern is always "outside" of the 14x14 opening, and is sometimes very different between brands. These are subjects which require "data" to resolve.

[rangered]

theOrca,

The Dometic FreshJet comes with a very nice factory seal where it makes contact with the Oliver. It also comes with four additional factory installed blocks at each corner that help distribute the weight of the unit over a larger area. In addition the FreshJet weighs less than the Penguin. 

The bolt pattern is inside of the opening, the same as the old noisy Penguin.

I hope this answers some of your concerns, you are welcome to message me if you have any questions about my AC installation.

[Ronbrink]

19 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I cannot get confirmation whether there are two set temps, for cooling vs. heat.

It is my understanding based on reads that one setting is made, wherein the unit will maintain that set temp as cold or heat is needed. Also looking forward to the outcome of @rideadeuce’s install and first impressions, as well. I lost contact with another owner on FB that made the first purchase of an Atmos 4.4 for his Oliver. I would think that install has been completed by now, but no subsequent report to date.

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

It is my understanding based on reads that one setting is made, wherein the unit will maintain that set temp as cold or heat is needed...

This is the issue. For example, at home we program our thermostat for summer A/C temps between 78 degrees in the heat of the afternoons and much cooler to 74 overnight to keep some air movement and sleep better. For winter heat, the numbers are much lower; down to 64 degrees prior to dawn and up to 70 in the evenings. This makes us comfortable at home. 

The last thing I want in the Oliver, or anywhere else for that matter, is for when it gets naturally cooler overnight approaching dawn is for the heat pump to come on when the temp gets 1-2 degrees lower, OMG!

A valid design has at least two set temps, one for each system (at home we have 4 per day for A/C and 4 more for heat). Why do these design engineers not understand something so basic. When I talked to Kevin at SDG, the Atmos rep and installation co., he explained it in this way. I asked him, why would I want that? He explained it as a positive feature, and I replied that to me this is an issue.

I would rather the A/C not have heat pump, or at least the ability to turn it off. We use the ceiling A/C when it's hot, run the LP furnace when it/s cold and I have NEVER seen a 24-hour period where we want or need both.

[rideadeuce]

23 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

It is my understanding based on reads that one setting is made, wherein the unit will maintain that set temp as cold or heat is needed. Also looking forward to the outcome of @rideadeuce’s install and first impressions, as well. I lost contact with another owner on FB that made the first purchase of an Atmos 4.4 for his Oliver. I would think that install has been completed by now, but no subsequent report to date.

Me too. My install is coming up on Wednesday. The first Atmos 4.4 bought for an Oliver was returned before install because it was the color black and the owner decided to wait on the white version to become available. At least, this is what was told to me by Kevin at SDG.

The manual shows it has an AUTO MODE. You should be able to pick AC or Heat or AUTO and set corresponding temps.  The unit does not receive heat signals when in cool mode only. If you can only pick a single temperature in AUTO MODE... that would be a bummer and I will be unhappy as well. At that point, I would just use the separate HEAT ONLY and COOL ONLY modes.  It also has a timer OFF FXN and dehumidifier mode. The heat pump is very nice thing to have IMO and can easily be turned off. Since the unit is quiet, I actually like the idea of the  fan running to circulate the air until I turn the unit off or set the timer to turn off.  The APP is the only thing I can't find much information on but ratings are good. 

For sure, I will let y'all know how the ride home from MI to TN goes!

Edited July 14 by rideadeuce

[Ronbrink]

@rideadeuce, thanks for the update on the other owner’s status.

In one of the videos viewed, it was stated that a temp could be set and cold/heat would maintain it. There has been some misinformation given before that proved not to be true or at least not fully understood/conveyed.

Good luck with the install. SDG has done a good job on video taping various installs, any chance your Oliver install will be similarly documented? 

[rideadeuce]

30 minutes ago, Ronbrink said:

any chance your Oliver install will be similarly documented? 

SDG said they would document and take pics of the install. I will try to gather as much information as I can, as well. On family vacation, so I am kind of sneaking this into the mix. Ha!

Mike

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, rideadeuce said:

At that point, I would just use the separate HEAT ONLY and COOL ONLY modes.

Thanks Mike, I had not run across the manual. Reading this makes more sense. Not sure when I questioned Kevin, he didn't inform me that I could use COOL vs. AUTO modes for what I asked. The fan will still run all night. My fix for that is the timer or the remote would be in arms reach, powered off when needed.

Now that I have the furnace duct mod, with bedside duct capped off, I believe I would likely rarely use the heat pump which would blow warm air over the beds and not front or in the bathroom. Many voice they like the heat pump option. I'd give it a try to see but would likely prefer the warm bathroom and heat aimed on the floor vs. up in our face.

For those of us who camp more often on inverter than connected to shore power, when A/C the sun is out and there is some positive AH offset. When you need heat, most of the time it's dark outside using considerable AH without solar replenishment and we carry 60 gallons of efficient LP.

[theOrca]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:11 PM, rangered said:

theOrca,

The Dometic FreshJet comes with a very nice factory seal where it makes contact with the Oliver. It also comes with four additional factory installed blocks at each corner that help distribute the weight of the unit over a larger area. In addition the FreshJet weighs less than the Penguin. 

The bolt pattern is inside of the opening, the same as the old noisy Penguin.

I hope this answers some of your concerns, you are welcome to message me if you have any questions about my AC installation.

Your input caused me to pull the trigger on a Fresh Jet 3. I am having mine installed at Highway Trailer Sales in Salem, Oregon next week. Everything is in their hands except for the needed extra roof seal that lets the condensate drains flow through the Olly drain. Despite it appearing in a Dometic advertisement, they have NOT produced a Fresh Jet 3 "non manual" ADB. I think their universal ADB woulld be a bad idea since it was not designed specifically for the Fresh Jet 3. I would have liked to have had a non-manual ADB so that I could use the Olly thermostat. I went with the ADB with manual controls. I guess I can always change out the ADB if Dometic ever gets around to actually producing a Non-manual Fresh Jet 3 version. I will post again after the install...

[Going]

On 7/25/2024 at 5:41 PM, theOrca said:

Your input caused me to pull the trigger on a Fresh Jet 3. I am having mine installed at Highway Trailer Sales in Salem, Oregon next week. Everything is in their hands except for the needed extra roof seal that lets the condensate drains flow through the Olly drain. Despite it appearing in a Dometic advertisement, they have NOT produced a Fresh Jet 3 "non manual" ADB. I think their universal ADB woulld be a bad idea since it was not designed specifically for the Fresh Jet 3. I would have liked to have had a non-manual ADB so that I could use the Olly thermostat. I went with the ADB with manual controls. I guess I can always change out the ADB if Dometic ever gets around to actually producing a Non-manual Fresh Jet 3 version. I will post again after the install...

theOrca,

I am also looking at the Fresh Jet and waiting to see how your install goes.  There are 2 others who did install it and posted on the forum a year or so ago.  Curious about the drain condensate location and the extra roof seal you mention and the thermostat.  My Penguin has heat strips and the Fresh Jet does not.  I was told by a dealer the harness plug at the unit was the same but because of the heat, the thermostat might now work.   When you post after install can you mention what thermostat you have and if your Penguin had heat.  Also what is ADB?

Hull 246

[theOrca]

ADB is the "air distribution box" on the inside side of the roof.

My install dealer and I are still working out the ramifications of they having installed a 15K BTU FreshJet3 instead of my requested 13.5K BTU version. There is now some question as to my Honda 2200 being able to run the 13.5 version. I can attest to the fact that it is NOT able to run the 15K version. 😒

Measured data 15K Dometic FreshJet 3 (with the Dometic Easy Start) and a Honda 2200 gen:

Sea level, 73F.  Low setting on the A/C - 13 amps. Generator runs fine

Medium setting on the A/C - 15 to 16 amps, gen running hard, evidently right at it's max wattage output.

High or Turbo setting on the A/C - 18 to 19 amps - Gen shuts down immediately due to overload.

I am having difficulty getting my mind around the fact that Dometic claims that the amperage draw of the 13.5K unit and the 15K unit are the same. If they are the same, then why is one de-rated to 13.5K? in my mind, BTU = energy = watts = amps....

🤯

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, theOrca said:

There is now some question as to my Honda 2200 being able to run the 13.5 version. I can attest to the fact that it is NOT able to run the 15K version. 😒

Measured data 15K Dometic FreshJet 3 (with the Dometic Easy Start) and a Honda 2200 gen:

Sea level, 73F.  Low setting on the A/C - 13 amps. Generator runs fine

Medium setting on the A/C - 15 to 16 amps, gen running hard, evidently right at it's max wattage output.

High or Turbo setting on the A/C - 18 to 19 amps - Gen shuts down immediately due to overload.

And how will it perform when you really need A/C, when temps are in the 90s vs. just 73F? 

Given these numbers, the Dometic FreshJet 3 on medium and high pulls more amperage than my Penguin II! Another vote for Atmos! Below is what @rideadeuce reported (see quote below) with the Atmos. BTW, 15A 120VAC = 1800W and 150A 12VDC = 1800W, so 15A AC equates to 150A on 12VDC.

Given your generator runs the A/C on low pulling 13A, it would run the Atmos on any speed pulling only 7.5 A (75A DC). I can run the penguin II 3-4 hours on our new Victron 3KVA MP2 inverter with 600AH LiFePO4 batteries. Given these numbers, I would have less runtime with the FreshJet 3 or instead could double runtime to 6-8 hours installing the Atmos 4.4 A/C.

"Here in TN it has been very humid and hot with no issues of increased humidity inside. Staying in the 40-60% range. As far as efficiency, it is at least 30-40% sometimes 50% better than the Dometic PII 13.5k. 75 vs 150 amps. 10 decimals quieter than the Dometic. Probably the best feature outside of efficiency."