Composting toilet

**Overland** · July 13, 2016

“The market is shifting though to younger buyers who are looking for a bit more adventure.” I’ve been an ‘adventurer’ all my life and at my present not so young age of 64 I am more than happy to be included in the new RV demographic!

Absolutely! The adventure is what's going to keep us young, hopefully well beyond retirement. I guess I should have said active rather than younger, but really it's the same I think.

Windwalker · July 15, 2016

We have an Airhead brand composting toilet on our boat and love it, the only drawback is having to empty the liquid tank all the time. I would figure out a way to use the black tank just seems like a great idea to me. I was at the factory last week and got to see one installed it is a lot taller than the China toilet and may be a problem for some.

Laps · July 15, 2016

We have an Airhead brand composting toilet on our boat and love it, the only drawback is having to empty the liquid tank all the time. I would figure out a way to use the black tank just seems like a great idea to me. I was at the factory last week and got to see one installed it is a lot taller than the China toilet and may be a problem for some.

Can you be more specific as to how often you were actually emptying the "pee tank" ?

The height of the Natures Head might be an issue, not sure yet.

Guess it could appropriately be referred to as the "throne".

I'm awaiting the factories response to all of our concerns and I'm wanting to have them replace the black tank with a fresh water tank and make the necessary connections. Might take a bit of patience though.

**Overland** · July 16, 2016

I've seen plastic toilet steps for children which might be the trick with the nature's head.

Windwalker · July 16, 2016

About every three days, you don't think about the output until you have to monitor it daily. It would just be a pain to empty every 3-4 days when you have an 18 gal. tank not doing anything.

Laps · July 16, 2016

About every three days, you don’t think about the output until you have to monitor it daily. It would just be a pain to empty every 3-4 days when you have an 18 gal. tank not doing anything.

I'm hoping that they will make concessions for us desiring the composting toilet, by removing the black tank and replacing with an extra fresh water tank.

**ScubaRx** · July 16, 2016

I’m hoping that they will make concessions for us desiring the composting toilet, by removing the black tank and replacing with an extra fresh water tank.

In following this thread I've become confused about this extra fresh water tank. It seems like folks are over thinking this and possibly making it more difficult than it really is. Why not just use the black water tank as installed and just re-purpose it as an extra fresh water tank? The tanks in the Oliver are custom made for the space they occupy so any tank that is placed in the black tank position would have been made as a black water tank. Now, obviously it would never have been used for black water so it could easily be filled with potable water instead, in fact, it actually has its own fill connection (the black tank flush.) Aside from the extra plumbing needed to connect the two tanks, I can't see a reason to make other changes. What am I missing?

Laps · July 16, 2016

Laps wrote:

I’m hoping that they will make concessions for us desiring the composting toilet, by removing the black tank and replacing with an extra fresh water tank.

In following this thread I’ve become confused about this extra fresh water tank. It seems like folks are over thinking this and possibly making it more difficult than it really is. Why not just use the black water tank as installed and just re-purpose it as an extra fresh water tank? The tanks in the Oliver are custom made for the space they occupy so any tank that is placed in the black tank position would have been made as a black water tank. Now, obviously it would never have been used for black water so it could easily be filled with potable water instead, in fact, it actually has its own fill connection (the black tank flush.) Aside from the extra plumbing needed to connect the two tanks, I can’t see a reason to make other changes. What am I missing?

From what I've been told, it is due to the RVIA code restrictions, or whatever agency oversees such matters. I had thought the same thing, just use the black tank for fresh water, but apparently it is, bureaucratically speaking, more complicated than that.

**ScubaRx** · July 16, 2016

Gotcha. Same thing I ran into when I came to them with an idea to use gray water to flush the toilet. No interconnecting plumbing. Tell them just leave off certification for your trailer.

Laps · July 16, 2016

Gotcha. Same thing I ran into when I came to them with an idea to use gray water to flush the toilet. No interconnecting plumbing. Tell them just leave off certification for your trailer.

HA, yes, and I get a 30% discount for doing so!

**John E Davies** · October 17, 2016

90 days since the last post..... Any updates on this subject? Specifically, using the black tank for additional gray storage, or better yet, replacing it with a dedicated auxiliary fresh water system during the build?

Are there any new Natures Head owners who can chime in with comments?

Thanks.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Laps · October 17, 2016

Yes, its been a long time and still no updates that I have heard of from Oliver. I was hoping other potential buyers would have chimed in by now. Going to be Spring 2017 before I can think about purchasing an Ollie, so hopefully there will be developments by then.

**John E Davies** · December 31, 2016

Bump bump! Any news or new info? I am about to order!

John Davies

Spokane WA

Laps · December 31, 2016

Bump bump! Any news or new info? I am about to order! John Davies Spokane WA

Haven't heard anything new regarding this from the factory standpoint. You should definitely inquire further with them if you are about to order and congratulations on being a soon-to-be new owner! Keep us updated.

**Overland** · January 1, 2017

John, I'm headed to Oliver tomorrow to get them going on our build and the whole black tank thing is high on the list of things to work out. I want to delete both the tank and the large waste line running to the back and repurpose some of that space into a larger fresh tank. I'll let you know what they say.

If there's anything else you want me to ask them face to face, let me know - I know both you and I have similar needs for our trailers.

**ScubaRx** · January 1, 2017

Overland, this will give you something to think about prior to your questions concerning a larger fresh water tank. The tanks that are used inside the Oliver are custom built for the space that they occupy. There is no room for a larger tank. If I were anticipating wanting additional water storage I would consider swapping the space that is presently occupied by the black water drain with a piece of capped PVC pipe. Ten feet of 4 inch pipe would hold about 6 1/2 gallons. Ten feet of 6 inch pipe would hold about 14 1/2 gallons.

**John E Davies** · January 1, 2017

John, I’m headed to Oliver tomorrow to get them going on our build and the whole black tank thing is high on the list of things to work out. I want to delete both the tank and the large waste line running to the back and repurpose some of that space into a larger fresh tank. I’ll let you know what they say. If there’s anything else you want me to ask them face to face, let me know – I know both you and I have similar needs for our trailers.

Cool, ask them about the following for the Elite II:

Spring over axle lift possible any time soon?

Spare tire cover - make it bigger to go over a full sized spare (matching size to the four others)?

Removable carpet kit?

Stone Stomper (Australian gravel guard that hangs below the A frame ... http://stonestomper.com.au .... I wish they would study this thing and offer a factory clone or a "SS authorized" (licensed and USA manufactured) copy as a factory option. It will require a sturdy removable aluminum crossbar going over the top of the A frame in front of the cabin, with holes cut in the propane cover.

Have fun,

John Davies

Spokane WA

**Overland** · January 1, 2017

Will do. I actually have all that on my list, except for the carpet, so hopefully with two of us asking at the same time we'll have a better chance of making some of it happen.

**Overland** · January 3, 2017

The story on the black tank is that it provides structure for the bathroom floor. They could remove it, but would need to put something back to keep the floor from flexing. Possibly, that something could be a fresh water tank, but I was told that making alterations to the tanks, or adding a separate tank, was an expensive endeavor because the tanks are made in a mould and getting a new mould made is like getting one made for the tub.

They don't look moulded to me, but what do I know. I thought they were cut and glued together. I also thought that the black tank in the photos I've seen doesn't exactly look wedged in there, so I'm not sure exactly how structural it is, but anyway, that's the what I was told. It was very clear to me that they do not want to remove any of that stuff. I don't get it, but there it is.

The axle kit is being looked into. I'm pushing hard on that one for a number of reasons. First, I'm very worried about the lack of suspension travel and damaging the trailer frame on bigger bumps. Secondly, there's really no good way to prevent water intrusion if you have to ford anything more than a foot or so. I'm looking into some options for that as well - the weeps are the biggest, fixable issue. After that, the furnace is the next to see water and unfortunately there isn't much to do about that. Any further up, and then water is coming in the door and the seal on that didn't look like it will keep out much water.

If you're interested, I did some measuring around the wheel wells to see if the tire size could be upped any. It's pretty tight - and you couldn't do a thing without flipping the axles since the tires look like they'd rub the fender flare at full compression as it is. Maybe without the fender flare you could do something, but it was obviously designed for smaller tires than what they're using now. Jason said no problem leaving the flares off. If you did the axle flip, the space between the tires would be the limiting dimension - roughly 4" now, so if you tried going to 32"s, you'd end up with an inch or less between the tires.

They're looking into dust intrusion for me as well - I'm going with a 12V fridge so hopefully we won't need any vents by the door, which is the main problem. Even if I have to keep one, it could be the top one and there should be enough space to rig a filter. As it is, there's nothing at all keeping dust out of either of those vents. Nor bugs. Nor smallish bears. The bath vent seems to seal pretty well. The weeps are the other entry point. I'll probably have to do some work on some of the hatch seals to eliminate gaps.

By the way, the windows are a new manufacturer - didn't get the brand. But they looked like they sealed up pretty well and Jason said that there shouldn't be any need for the gutter strips like on the old ones. Maybe I'm imagining it, but they seemed a bit sleeker looking from the outside.

Spare tire cover is being looked at. Heather told me they'd changed it and the spare was full sized, but Jason said no. No time frame given, but it would have to be soon because I'm not going to carry anything but a full size.

Carpet kit and stone guard are going to have to be an after market add if you want them.

I talked to them about solar. They'll do 3 panels for 480W no problem at all, so long as you don't need all the sat antennas and stuff. They have done one trailer with 4 panels @ 640W, but as I suspected, that means eliminating the AC. I asked about mini splits or the Dometic Cool Cat in place of the rooftop, but the response wasn't positive. What they will do is provide exterior ports for portable panels, so if nothing else we'll do that. I asked them about SunPower panels, and they'll look to see if they can get them.

They have one client going with a Victron setup like the Technomadia folk, but Oliver won't do it themselves. That person is getting AM Solar to do it aftermarket, which I'm sure isn't cheap. Oliver isn't even running the cables. They're talking to a company that does a full lithium setup that is one self-contained unit with all the batteries and controllers, etc. that would bolt underneath the trailer. I believe the price was going to be something like $15k, which I just laughed at - not on my trailer for sure. I'm going to push for the Victron on ours even if we don't do lithium right now, since I just want it all to be ready when the inevitable swap happens. Plus the Victron kit is just nice and it shouldn't cost much more than what they use already. They're nervous about it since that stuff is really outside their expertise. But, you know, it's the future and they'll have to bite the bullet at some point.

Oh, I also asked about disk brakes and electric over hydraulic. I was not told no. ; )

By the way, the new sink in the kitchen is nice - wider and deeper - though you lose a drawer as a result. New faucet as well, with a high neck and sprayer. The new bath faucet is an RVIA thing, but they'll install it and then swap it for the old one after the fact if you want. The frosted upper cabinet doors are sweet. Really nice. They're doing compression latches on those for us, which you might want to specify as well. They're also offering an UltraLeather type material now for the cushions which looks great, should wear well and be a cinch to keep clean. It has a flat leather-texture finish, very similar to what you'd see in a high end car. We were going to have the upholstery done locally, but after seeing the new stuff, I have no problems letting Oliver do it. I don't know if the quality is the same as Ultra or Nauga, but it looks like it will hold up.

There's other stuff I might post up later - I was there long enough to overstay my welcome. Jason was glad to see me leave, no doubt.

**bugeyedriver** · January 3, 2017

.................................................There’s other stuff I might post up later – I was there long enough to overstay my welcome. Jason was glad to see me leave, no doubt.

Bwahahahahaaaaa, no doubt! Great comprehensive report, Overland. Looking forward to "the other stuff" report.

It is nice to have a company that is mindful of continuous product improvement and to get a glimpse into the future of the Ollie.

**KarenLukens** · January 3, 2017

The story on the black tank is that it provides structure for the bathroom floor.

As long as it's never used for poo, a new unused black tank can be used for extra fresh water storage but it would take some more plumbing at least. Why don't you want a 3 way fridge?

**Overland** · January 3, 2017

overland wrote:

The story on the black tank is that it provides structure for the bathroom floor.

As long as it’s never used for poo, a new unused black tank can be used for extra fresh water storage but it would take some more plumbing at least. Why don’t you want a 3 way fridge?

The danfoss compressor type fridges are said to run better in hot weather, plus they require less venting and consume much less power relative to the 12V setting on the 3-ways - they only pull 3.75 amps when running. So roughly 45 amp hours per day assuming it runs half the time, 90 Ah if you leave the door open. They also aren't finicky about being level, can handle getting bumped around a lot, and they offer a bit more storage for the space they take up. Plus they're stainless and look cool, lol.

**Overland** · January 3, 2017

I assume you spoke about the Victron gear as a replacement for both the Blue Sky controller and monitor? I also assume you would stay with the Zamp solar panels, just add one more?

Did you happen to get a picture of the new windows? Maybe they flip up when open?

Did you happen to take a picture of the compression latches? I am having trouble visualizing the latch.

Frosted upper cabinet door? Is this in addition to the mirror and black finish options? Buzzy

Yes, if we went with the Victron one of the advantages is that the unit itself handles the charging, inverter, monitoring, etc. There are some extra bits you have to buy, like the monitor screen, and I think the MPPT controller, but it's all supposed to be plug and play, connects to your iPhone, etc. I asked about getting SunPower panels, which are the most efficient and reliable on the market right now; but if we can't get them, then the Zamp is fine. The problem with SunPower is that they only sell to installers and Oliver doesn't know if they'll qualify. The portable panels and exterior plugs would probably be Zamp since they have really good kit for that stuff.

Didn't get a photo of the windows, but they're basically the same - still sliders. I just felt that they looked a bit sleeker, but I could be totally wrong. The main visual difference from the older ones is that there are no weeps at the top of the window, just the ones at the bottom. I guess that's the easiest way to know which ones you have.

The compression latches are the same as what you have on the pantry door. They just lock a bit more securely, so Jason suggested we use those since we're going on rough roads. I was actually asking about latches for the drawers, but Jason suggested that we secure the uppers. I don't know if that's been an issue - at least I don't remember anyone complaining about it. The frosted door is now the standard, and both the mirror and black are upgrades. You can mix and match if you want - we're doing a mirrored door in the bath and the rest frosted.

**John E Davies** · January 3, 2017

As long as it’s never used for poo, a new unused black tank can be used for extra fresh water storage but it would take some more plumbing at least.

Agreed. The residential plumbing codes absolutely prohibit ABS plumbing for carrying any water under pressure, because it has a poor reputation for longevity. For storage of potable water it is perfectly fine. For drain and vent systems, ditto.

There is no valid reason to not use the existing tank if it hasn't been contaminated. Even if it has, it would be possible to sterilize it.

I plan to plumb mine into the fresh tank, I just haven't quite figured out the details. The huge advantage in working with an ABS tank is that you can drill a hole and simply glue in a nipple for a vent or overflow line. For the polyethylene fresh tank you should spin weld it, which is problematic for an owner.... tho any RV shop should be able to do it if there is decent access.

Tons of great info about repairs ... http://rvsandohvs.blogspot.com/2012/09/holding-tank-repairs.html

BTW we are figuring out options and will get a deposit off to the factory really soon.

John Davies

Spokane WA

**Overland** · January 4, 2017

One additional advantage of a new window plan might be the possible replacement of the interior shades? I join the owners who do not like the “off-white” frame color and how they look against the white walls. I am working on a possible design solution, but a bright white frame around the shades would be a better solution.

Unfortunately, the blinds are the same. I asked about going with something darker, like a bronze or graphite color, but the off-white is all that's available from the manufacturer they use. I think everyone at Oliver agrees that the off white just looks like cigarette stained plastic.

It's interesting because I have a photo of a very early trailer that has a light grey trim around the blinds, so at least at one point there was a better option.

I also have a photo of a trailer that was apparently delivered without any window covering and it makes you realize how intrusive those big window boxes are on the interior space.

I'm thinking about asking for aluminum blinds that extend 3" of so past the windows. Another idea would be to do what Airstream does on their big curved windows bays which is to put a pleated curtain that goes the full length around the whole end of the trailer.

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