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Buzzy

Micro-Air

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Forum Members,

 

I noticed a new member, Micro-Air, joined on April 11, 2017.  A review of his/her profile indicates a YouTube link to a variety of videos which can be helpful to our community.

 

In the past, our Forum has benefited from vendor representatives, such as Sage at Andersen Hitches.  Perhaps the Micro-Air representative will step forward?

 

Have any Ollie owners utilized the equipment manufactured by Micro-Air?

 

Buzzy

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Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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A few people have the Easy Start installed, and have said great things about it. I'm considering it, but if I go with the Atwood AC I should be able to run it off a Honda 2000 without one. However, if I'm not mistaken it was Trumpetguy who said that he could run his Atwood off of battery by using the Easy Start. Not for long, of course.

 

After reading about it here, I'm also considering installing an easy start on my home AC. We've got an old house with iffy patchwork electrical that's been changed and added to somewhat, uh, creatively over the last 100 years, and the AC is a definite strain on the system when it cranks up.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Overland,

 

Yes, some owners have installed the Easy Start.  Not sure if we have Forum members who are also using the Penguin II AC.  Since many of the Ollies in circulation use the Penguin II, I am hoping the Micro-Air rep will post his experience working with Penguin II owners.

 

I should think if your dry camping in southern states, you absolutely need an Easy Start.  Never made sense to me that I can dry camp and run my furnace, but not my AC.  I guess I view this technology as essential if it works on my configuration.

 

Although an Easy Start may allow me to fire up the AC, not sure how long I could run it on my battery supply.   I do not plan to utilize a generator. Would enjoy hearing from an experienced owner for a reality check!

 

Buzzy

 

PS - Sent off a PM to our Micro-Air member with the hope he/she will post on this thread.  Fingers crossed!


Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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David Kemp (trumpetguy) was using this equipment in his Oliver.  He is now using the same in his Airstream.  In full Florida sun, he was running his AC off the Trojans for as much as 8 hours at a time!  Hopefully, he will chime in here with his experiences.

 

The company has a complete Dometic Penguin II installation instructional on their website.  It fits neatly inside the unit on the outside.

 

The necessary unit costs a little over $300.00.

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher, Lucy and Rocky plus our beloved Storm and Maggie (both waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0026 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0050 2017 Silverado High Country 2500HD Diesel 4x4 

 

      ALAKAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA       ABBCMBNSYTsm.jpg

 

 

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8 hours? Yes, we definitely need a full report on that, especially if he's able to do that in a larger and less well insulated Airstream. I wonder what his solar and battery capacity are.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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In the Oliver, he was running it with the standard 4 Trojan T-105's  and the 320 watt solar.  He later added two more batteries so he had even more reserve power.

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher, Lucy and Rocky plus our beloved Storm and Maggie (both waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0026 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0050 2017 Silverado High Country 2500HD Diesel 4x4 

 

      ALAKAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA       ABBCMBNSYTsm.jpg

 

 

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FYI

 

Heard back from the Micro-Air rep via a PM.  He is planning to post comments here later today.  Making progress!

 

Buzzy

 

 


Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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Hello to all my Oliver buddies.  I am glad to see renewed interest in the Easy Start because it is a terrific product.  I introduced the company to my AS buds and a number have purchased the unit.  One thing first...if you do buy the product get the one in the enclosure as opposed to just the board.  If enough interest is expressed they will allow a discount.

 

I did install the Easy Start in my Atwood Air Command 13500 AC I had on the Ollie.  Yes I did run the AC on a hot Florida Saturday for eight hours on battery only.  Bear in mind that I was using six Trojan T105s, and that the Atwood has probably the lowest AMP draw of any RV air conditioner.  Not sure how a Dometic will do.  During the eight hour test the Ollie was in full sun so there was some benefit from PV that reduced the draw on the batteries.  FYI.  The extra two batteries were in a marine battery case attached to the generator basket.  I ran 1/0 welding cable under the dinette seats into the battery compartment.  The Atwood pulls 60 AMPS when the compressor is running but remember that the AC cycles on and off according to the thermostat setting so an eight hour test might only entail six or so hours of running.

 

The Easy Start is not a capacitor so don't think you can do this with a $10.00 part.  All modern RV AC units already have a Hard Start capacitor anyway.  Easy Start is a computer.  It "learns" the characteristics of your AC unit within five starts and adjusts the amount of assistance at start up accordingly.  Start up is what gives inverters and generators a problem.  The "Locked Rotar AMPS" (LRA) at start up will approximate 5X the running amps of the unit.  Even the Surge watts of a 2000 WATT inverter cannot overcome this.  Easy Start reduces the LRA by as much as eighty percent to enable start up.  It only operates on start up. An additional benefit is to reduce the cathartic bump felt when most RV AC units start up.

 

One of my first mods to our AS 28' was to install the Easy Start.  I have one Dometic Briskair 15000 BTU.  My off grid set up is 500 WATTS of roof mounted PV (5) Renogy Mono Crystaline panels, (4) Crown AGM 6V Batteries, 3000 WATT Magnum Hybrid Inverter, 40 AMP Blue Sky Charge Controller with IPN remote.  One day I hope to replace the AGMs with 400 AMPS of LIFePO4 batteries, but right now the price is too high.

 

One thing has surprised me about my Airstream...it is not as energy inneficient as rumoured.  There is about two inches of "pink stuff" insulation between the inner and outer skin.  We have camped in 90 degree heat and 20 degree cold and were comfortable at all times.  The furnace is so good we don't use it.  Just carry a Little Buddy and keep it on low.

 

I hope to see some of you on the road as we tour this wonderful land.  If you are coming to9 the upper Gulf Coast of Florida be sure to send me a message and we will have a meet up.

 

When will Oliver make a 28' 8 foot wide unit?  Maybe soon?

20170331_133314209_iOS.thumb.jpg.63d9c8cf57328ffe3a503f0bb9ef811e.jpg

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Current 2007 Airstream Classic Limited 31


2015 Oliver Legacy Elite II (Sold)


2016 Ram 2500 HD 6.7i Cummins turbo diesel


 

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David,

 

Hats off to the development of your Easy Start, solar, and battery system!!!!!!! Very impressed when you first posted your system here.  If we install the roof solar charging system on our Ollie, will borrow yours and everyone involved in development ideas, if you don't mind.

 

On the 28' Ollie, there are rumors floating around.

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Bill

LE2 Tundra

 

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Hello everyone from Micro-Air!  Many thanks to Buzzy for his noticing my sign up to your forum and many thanks to Trumpetguy for his long-standing support as one of our exclusive "repeat customers"!  We're thrilled to be here and very happy to see the interest brewing in our EasyStart products.  I'm going to do my best to abide by your forum's rules and not post any links, prices, and such since I don't want to upset your moderators. Most of you have already found our website anyway, and all of the important stuff is there.  Speaking of which, we're in the middle of a complete website and webstore redesign that should be launching within the next few weeks.

 

Trumpetguy gave a great summary.  To address some of Buzzy's questions, I looked at some photos of Olivers from past and present.  I see that they at one time perhaps used Coleman Mach and Polar Cub rooftops, later changing to the Dometic Penguin. I just saw on your Facebook page a trailer with a Dometic Penguin II.  The good news is we have now had hundreds of end customers and dealers install EasyStart with success on all of these models, and pretty much the rest of the model families from Dometic and Coleman (Airxcel).   I have a vast library of wiring diagrams that I have drawn and accumulated since last summer.  I can post any or all of those here once we know which models anyone might need help with.  The generic installation instructions that come with EasyStart are straightforward.  I've attached those here.

 

As far as power sources go, the big thing that EasyStart enables is operation of the largest rooftops, 15kBTUs, from a single 2000W generator or inverter.  We have confirmation of this with Honda EU2000i, the Yamaha EF2000iSv2, the Westinghouse WH2000iXLT, the Xantrex Freedom 1800 Modified-sine Inverter, the Magnum Energy Magnasine MS2012, and a few other inverter models as well.  The only 2000W generator that doesn't seem to work with EasyStart is the Champion 73536i, which I wanted to mention up front since it is half the cost a few have customers have had trouble with it.  The other nice benefit for EasyStart that I don't believe applies to Oliver trailers (yet) is that it allows you to run two rooftop A/Cs on a single 30A utility hook-up.

 

I'm here to answer questions, so feel free to ask away!  Thank you again for the warm welcome and for everyone's interest in our EasyStart products.

EasyStart-In-box-Installation-Instruction-Sheet.pdf

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Technical Support
Micro-Air, Inc.

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Even the AQtwood needs 60 amps on start up.  A honda 2000 won't do it alone.

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Current 2007 Airstream Classic Limited 31


2015 Oliver Legacy Elite II (Sold)


2016 Ram 2500 HD 6.7i Cummins turbo diesel


 

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And I wanted to post this separately:

 

To show our appreciation for everyone's interest and Buzzy's kind invitation, like we did for Trumpetguy's AS friends and family, I've just added another coupon code to our webstore for all of you Oliver owners.  Just enter "OLIVER" at checkout to receive $50 off our EasyStart 364 model.

 

Please know that I'm not here to force the "hard sell" on anyone.  I'm just a part of the product development & manufacturing team that wants to make sure you have all the right information.  That way, each and everyone can make their own decisions and choices on how best to resolve their particular situations when it comes to A/C operation on generator or on inverter/solar power.

 

Many thanks again for everyone's interest and consideration!

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Technical Support
Micro-Air, Inc.

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Even the AQtwood needs 60 amps on start up. A honda 2000 won’t do it alone.

 

 

Do you mean the 15k btu unit? Atwood claims that their 13.5k btu unit can be started with a Honda 2000, and you had mentioned not having any problem running the Atwood off your 2000i, though not off the inverter.


Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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David and Matteo,

 

Thank you both for helping our community understand the EasyStart product.  Back when David first highlighted his installation, my focus was on other aspects of my Ollie.  With the arrival of the 2017 camping season, the purchase and installation of an EasyStart is on my list of modifications to enhance my dry camping.  Here in northern New England we do not have many hot and humid days, but we do have enough that this product would be helpful!

 

Matteo, thank you for coordinating the coupon for Ollie owners.   Your efforts to help our community is very much appreciated.

 

Buzzy

 

PS - Just ordered mine!


Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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Another Thanks to David & Matteo!!!!

 

Want to buy a 2000 Watt Quiet Yamaha or Honda GenSet that will run the 13.5K Dometic AC unit for short periods on the Ollie.

 

Will purchase the EasyStart 364, too.

 

 

 

 

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Bill

LE2 Tundra

 

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Me too :) Just ordered.

 

Thanks guys :)

 

Heck it should be coming as a stock accessory with all Ollie's soon at this rate, I would think :)

 

Being that I also have the Xantrex PROWATT SW SERIES/2000W inverter, will the wiring be the same? I would like to just be able to turn on the inverter and then run the AC to see how long I can run on the battery. I have a Honda 2000i and a golf cart charger, along with the Solar package, so quick charging the batteries isn't a problem.

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Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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Overland.  I had the 13500 Atwood.  To be fair I can't remember if the Honda 2000i will start and run that unit or not.  To be safe invest $300 in the Easy Start.


Current 2007 Airstream Classic Limited 31


2015 Oliver Legacy Elite II (Sold)


2016 Ram 2500 HD 6.7i Cummins turbo diesel


 

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Seems that you could. I might still get one to run off batteries, but it's not necessary if you get the Atwood. We're still debating using a Victron charger and that would allow us to run off batteries as well.

 

I decided to bite the bullet and pay for Oliver to switch out my Coleman Mach 8 for the Atwood Command 13500. I returned from Hohenwald yesterday and this is what I sent to Oliver…

 

"The unit is exceeding my expectations. Running in my driveway it can hardly be heard, and on a 110 degree day the inside temp is at 68…running on my Honda 2000i generator. The generator is on eco mode and has no problem cycling with the compressor".

 

The three speed fan allows one to repidly cool the trailer on high, then cycle down to low speed for quiet maintenance. It has a "dry" mode that removes humidity without cooling. The fan runs either in auto or manual mode.

 

There is no external thermostat but it has a handy remote for controlling the unit.

 

There are two features that some may miss. 1. No heat strip. Not a problem for us because we supplement our propane furnace with a small oil radiator, and or a cube heater. The oil heater is quieter so that is our default. In extreme cold we will set the furnace at 60 in case the radiator cannot warm us up enough. 2. The drip line is outside the trailer so there is always a stream of water coming off the trailer. Not an issue for me, and Dusten added some flexible molding to route the water away from windows. The capability of using the small Honda or Yamaha 2000 WATT genset more than offsets the drawbacks.

 

I am even thinking that my 2000 WATT inverter will start and run the Atwood, with a dedicated transfer switch. It only draws 11.8 maximum Amps. Heck, I was pulling in 14.8 amps PV at a rest stop on the way home. Would have been nice to have a few minutes of AC for a nap.

 

I don’t know what route Oliver will take but I can highly recommend the Atwood.

 


Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Matteo,

 

Thank you for your posts and generous offer on the price.  Many of our setups are similar but each will have some variations.  Since I have a 3000 watt Yamaha Generator, I'm not concerned about that part of the equation.  What I would like to do was what David originally set about to achieve, run his AC off his batteries.

 

I understand that there is a finite amount of energy in the batteries.  I understand that when depleting the batteries there is a point past which one should not go.  My setup is a Dometic Penguin II AC, 4 x 200 amp hour 6 volt Trojan AGM's (total = 400 amp hours, usable = 200 amp hours), 300 watts of solar, and a Kisae pure sine wave inverter 2000W (SWXFR1220).

 

My question would be, sitting in full sun and using the above criteria, could I expect your EasyStart 364 model to be able to start and run my AC?

 

 

 

 


Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher, Lucy and Rocky plus our beloved Storm and Maggie (both waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0026 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0050 2017 Silverado High Country 2500HD Diesel 4x4 

 

      ALAKAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA       ABBCMBNSYTsm.jpg

 

 

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ScubaRx - As it turns out, the total amp-hours of battery capacity and the solar capacity are the only things that play a role in how long you can run the A/C (assuming no other loads are operating), and also how long it takes to charge the batteries.  As far as starting the A/C, that will be determined by the surge capacity of the inverter itself.  I found the specs for your Kisae inverter online at this link. It appears to be a good one since they spec a surge capacity of 4000W, which is very good.  That's about 33A at 120V, which is more than enough for the EasyStart to start your Dometic Penguin II (13.5k or 15k).  The 15k Penguin II compressor has an LRA rating of 52A, and it probably draws about 45A peak (with its factory hardstart kit) during a normal startup.  40-45A will obviously exceed the 4000W surge capability of your inverter.  With EasyStart installed, after the learning optimization sequence is completed, we have repeatedly measured the startup surge of a Penguin II compressor to be down below 15A (>70% reduction).  15A actually well within the normal operating range of your inverter (16.7A @120V is 2000W), so it is not at all a strain on your inverter.

 

So, the answer to your question is a definitive "yes". The EasyStart will allow you to start and run your Dometic Penguin II on your Kisae 2000W pure-sine inverter. How long it will run will be determined by the the total usable amp-hours (200) and the charge state of the batteries. Given that a Dometic Penguin II draws about 1800W during steady-state operation, 200Ah of batteries at 12V plus 300W of solar will only provide a little more than 1-1/2 hours of operation.

 

Hope this helps.


Technical Support
Micro-Air, Inc.

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ScubaRx - As it turns out, the total amp-hours of battery capacity and the solar capacity are the only things that play a role in how long you can run the A/C (assuming no other loads are operating).  As far as starting the A/C, that is determined by the surge capacity of the inverter itself.  I found the specs for your Kisae inverter online. It appears to be a quality one since they spec a surge capacity of 4000W, which is very good.  That's about 33A at 120V, which is more than enough for the EasyStart to start your Dometic Penguin II (13.5k or 15k).  The 15k Penguin II compressor has an LRA rating of 52A, and it probably draws about 45A peak (with its factory hardstart kit) during a normal startup.  40-45A will obviously exceed the 4000W surge capability of your inverter.  With EasyStart installed, after the learning optimization sequence is completed, we have repeatedly measured the startup surge of a Penguin II compressor to be down below 15A (70% reduction).  15A actually well within the normal operating range of your inverter (16.7A @120V is 2000W), so it is not at all a strain on your inverter.

 

So, the answer to your question is a definitive "yes". The EasyStart will allow you to start and run your Dometic Penguin II on your Kisae 2000W pure-sine inverter. How long it will run will be determined by the the total usable amp-hours (200) and the charge state of the batteries. Given that a Dometic Penguin II draws about 1800W during steady-state operation, 200Ah of batteries at 12V plus 300W of solar will only provide a little more than 1-1/2 hours of operation.

 

I hope this helps.

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Technical Support
Micro-Air, Inc.

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I think the limit is more the batteries than the inverter. I mean, if the Atwood can be run on a generator rated at 2000 surge watts then it should be fine on an inverter rated at 3000. Unless of course one of those has been very conservatively/liberally rated. The Trojan T-105's however are rated at ~10 amps and if you're asking 100+ from them they won't be happy. I'm sure this is why Trumpetguy wasn't able to get his AC cranking with batteries before he added the soft start - well, kinda sure, technically they should. But even with a soft start, the running amps even on the Atwood is 100+, and that's probably too much if you want your batteries to last. Probably O.K. in the middle of a sunny day if you're supplementing with tons of solar. But over the long run it can't be good for battery life. An hour or so, as was Trumpetguy's desire, is probably not as harmful, but still a strain. Lot's of probablies.

 

I think if you really want to run the AC off batteries on any regular basis, then you need to consider lithium and then up your solar to 640w and maybe even supplement that with portables. The successful battery operated AC systems like the Wynn's or Technomadia's have over a kilowatt of solar and 400 useable Ah of lithium batteries, and even they'll tell you that their systems are limited to a partial day before recharging with a gen or plugging in. You can do this in an Oliver, if you're willing.

 

IMO, the primary selling point of a soft start is in letting you run an existing Penguin or Coleman AC off of a portable gen like the Honda 2000. Quieter, lighter, easier to store. If you're just getting started though, I think just speccing the Atwood is probably the better choice, though there are reasons you might still prefer the Penguin + a soft start.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Thanks Overland :)

 

Karen is already planning my next upgrade, a couple batteries and  I will plumb in my Solar Suitcase to start just to have some fun playing this summer. I will be using the 2000i mostly, I do love that little Machine :) We are really happy with our trailer and have been in it full time now for over 2 months.


Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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Not to take this topic off-track, but I'm looking at your 2nd Annual Rally at the beginning of May in TN (thanks to a tip from donbob3).  I see many vendors will be there, including our largest OEM customer Dometic, to which we sell marine A/C controls in high volume and have for many years.  Thanks to this topic here, I'm thinking that a lot of Oliver owners might be interested in hearing more about EasyStart at what looks like quite a wonderful event.

 

I would really like to participate to perhaps give a demonstration and/or a technical seminar, but I realize it may be too late to get in.  From reviewing the rally web page, I cannot quite tell who the best person is to contact about perhaps joining in with the vendors and seminars.   Does anyone know who I should contact?  Thanks in advance.

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Technical Support
Micro-Air, Inc.

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