Jump to content

Bike rack owners: need tray location from bumper, in inches


Recommended Posts

I am going to build a rear rack so I can mount my Oliver cargo tray there. However, I would like to also make sure that I could remove the tray and mount a single 1-Up bike tray (for an ebike) onto the 4” wide cross beam. So how far back from the bumper should I position the center of the tray? I am guessing 9”, like so:

 

94943C98-D2DC-49B4-A229-0E8995C932BA.thumb.jpeg.b23ad5e3063c73e2ad38a33f03db4b22.jpeg

 

The average mountain bike handlebar is around 31 inches plus a little extra for some bar ends. Say 17” from center to end, to be safe. How much room do I need to adequately clear the back of the hull? I also need to make sure there is adequate tire clearance for the crank arm and pedal. I don’t mind if I have to position the crank arm horizontally to clear the tire, or even remove that pedal entirely....

 

Please measure your innermost tray from its centerline to the back of the bumper, and tell me if you think it would be better if it were repositioned, and why. Also, what bike you carry there.... pictures are good.

 

I don’t have a bike right now. That would have helped with my visualizing the position. Thanks,

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

Link to post
Share on other sites
John

 

I’m not at home near the trailer to take a pic for you but here are some I’d had on file.

 

Well, I appreciate the pics but they don’t help much. This (edited) one seems to indicate that your front tray is around 8” from the bumper...

 

36E1612B-47FA-4D96-9BE6-39123D823B51.thumb.jpeg.c196c98b62fc864957ac9edc16113a97.jpeg

 

If you could acurrately measure that distance for me the next time you visit your Ollie, I would appreciate it.

 

Also, with your tray in that location, are there any issues with clearance at either the tire cover or the hull? What bike goes there?

 

Thanks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey John

 

We were glad to see your post re building a bike rack. After a lot of thinking and looking, Kim and I have settled on having a bike rack built. We had originally thought that we would have Babcock Metals, LLC build a rack like Pete had made, but are moving towards a different style that apparently was first made by Oliver. After talking with Rob Babcock he also felt that the second design would be more fitting for an Oliver. We are in the process of getting measurements and design specs to Rob. For those of you that don't know, Babcock Metals, LLC built Pete's rack-Rob Babcock is based in Utah. He is very open to doing custom fabrications and does very good work.  The measurement that you are looking for is one that we will need for our rack, and will secure in the next week or so. Once we have numbers we will post them. We have bought a Yakima Longhaul bicycle rack that uses a 2 inch. receiver hitch and can be used on both the RV and our truck. We plan on using the rack for carrying two gravel grinder bikes and a Serotta road bike.

 

David Thompson

 

 

rack.thumb.jpeg.1674cd297c62ecc867ece84ec400148c.jpeg

rack2.thumb.png.fced50d0336d14ee9a9ec94289b49a07.png

  • Thanks 3

Kim and David Thompson Nomads' Nest 2018 LE2 #366 2018 Toyota Tundra, 4x4, 5.7L


http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/INKYMINCTNlg.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Bump for any updates?

 

I plan to start on my rack project soon (buy the materials at least), and I would really like to know the exact distance from bumper to centerline of the forward-most bike rail. Plus comments on how well that spacing has worked for you, in terms of handlebar and pedal clearance with the hull and tire mostly.

 

Thanks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

  • Thanks 1

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

John,

 

On my set-up it is 11" rear bumper to c/l of the first wheel channel.  I can adjust each bike mounting in or out a few inches if needed, The current set-up works fine with road and mtb bikes. The bars clear the tire cover with no problem. Peddles also - just rotate where needed.

 

20180724_101414.thumb.jpg.6ad821d79c09cea9ce1379b0b4a2859a.jpg

Pic for reference.

  • Thanks 1

Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

BackofBeyond, thanks for the pic and info, that helps. Do you think my using 9" instead of 11" would be too close? I am trying to keep my cargo tray as close as possible to the tire without obstructing its removal.

 

Do e-Bikes sometimes have wider bars than regular bikes due to their extra weight?

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

Link to post
Share on other sites

JD,

 

I don't know about Ebikes - however, there is plenty of room for the bars, if you can see on my pic, there is a good amount of space left between the bumper edge and the outside of the Ollie - at handle bar height. I would think 9" would be close - I would think the pedals would be an issue first, just have to rotate them to put them out of harms way. I suppose you could mock it up, and measure the distance. I'm sure an ebike's stats can be found for the handlebar width.

 

RB

  • Thanks 1

Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question; we are building a bicycle rack and plan on mounting it using plates and bolts onto the side of the bumper. However, the diamond plate that wraps around the bumper is not flush against the bumper, so we would need to bend the diamond plate so that it is flush . What is the best way to bend diamond plate? Is there any risk of cracking the diamond plate when it is being bent?

 

We noticed that most people mount their bicylce rack from the top-we felt that mounting it from the side using plates would allow for a stiffer rack and shorter bolts increasing strength.

IMG_6834.thumb.jpg.11f98ca5fe4308a55962e93717be151f.jpg

Kim and David Thompson Nomads' Nest 2018 LE2 #366 2018 Toyota Tundra, 4x4, 5.7L


http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/INKYMINCTNlg.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites
Not sure if this is the right place to post this question; we are building a bicycle rack and plan on mounting it using plates and bolts onto the side of the bumper. However, the diamond plate that wraps around the bumper is not flush against the bumper, so we would need to bend the diamond plate so that it is flush . What is the best way to bend diamond plate? Is there any risk of cracking the diamond plate when it is being bent?

 

We noticed that most people mount their bicylce rack from the top-we felt that mounting it from the side using plates would allow for a stiffer rack and shorter bolts increasing strength.

 

 

You need to clarify.....It sounds as if you actually mean through-bolting rack supports to the sides of the FRAME rails, that would possibly work quite well. I would just remove the diamond plate cover entirely, take it to a sheet metal or welding shop and have them cut the bends off with their big shear. Reinstall it with extra rivets as needed.

 

If you want to use short bolts for a top mounted rack, there is no need whatsoever to go clear through the entire height of the frame rails. You could install the nuts on the inside of the cavity, though they would be a little tricky to reach. A 1/2” breaker bar with a socket on the end would work well to get a nut and glued on heavy washer down into the far end of that long opening. I personally feel that the big fender washers with super long bolts that the factory uses is a bad design.  I will use 1.5” x 12” x 1/4” thick aluminum backer strips top and bottom to better spread the load and reinforce the frame, with regular hard stainless flat washers, bolts and nuts... this method does not require you to modify the diamond plate cover in any way, plus you only drill one set of big holes in the frame rails, not two... the fewer holes the better IMHO.

 

The reason fender washers and really long bolts are bad is that if there are no compression sleeves installed (does the factory do this for their racks?) the clamping force of the nuts tries to squeeze the top and bottom of the hollow tubes together and bow out the sides, and the hardware tends to loosen over time. You just can’t torque them down enough unless you have solid metal underneath, not air. Look at the way the Bulldog is attached to the tongue, with aluminum tubes inside the cavity, that is the best approach.

 

Finally, a sane design MUST have a fuse - a built in failure point - so that when a car rear ends your trailer at low speed or you back into a boulder, the rack supports will either crumple or shear off and not bend the frame rails. If it happens at high speed your trailer is toast anyway..... but you should try very hard to protect the frame from damage in low speed impacts. A bent frame would be a financial disaster.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks John for your quick response and many ideas. We particularly like the idea of the compression sleeves to make the bolts more secure. As a point of clarification, we are working with Rob Babcock, who built Pete's bicycle rack. We want to have a 2 inch receiver so that we can swap out our bike rack from the Oliver, to our Tundra. We are planning on using square stainless steel tubes, that will be mounted onto the side of the frame rails with a plate. I think that we will likely remove the diamond plate on the sides. We think that a side mounted rack would be more secure and stable.

 

We are really enjoying our Oliver. Thanks again John, and everyone else on this forum-it is invaluable!

  • Thanks 1

Kim and David Thompson Nomads' Nest 2018 LE2 #366 2018 Toyota Tundra, 4x4, 5.7L


http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/INKYMINCTNlg.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

If you're putting enough torque on those bolts to bend the frame, then I'm going to say that you're putting too much torque on those bolts.  And likewise, if what you're carrying requires that much torque, then you're carrying too much weight back there.

 

Having said that, going in through the side would be much more likely to bend the frame, due to its geometry.  And you're also stressing both the bolts and frame in shear.  So top to bottom is definitely the better design.

 

I'd think that Oliver's "platform" frame is made of light enough material that it would crumple before damaging the frame.

Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Normal static torque won’t bend the frame or square tubes measureably, no way. The clamping force tries to do that but the material is strong and thick enough to resist it.

 

Add the extreme and repetitive vertical loads from bouncing down a choppy highway with a 150 pound cargo at the end of a 2 ft arm and you might have problems. I suspect those huge flat washers were added in an attempt to spread the load to the sides of the frame rails and square tubes instead of straight through their centers. Put a bolt through a hollow tube of any shape and clamp it down, and the tube distorts. A solid spacer inside prevent that. That is what they did up front to stop the coupler bolts from loosening.

 

The black plastic (?) spacers Oliver uses are also a bad idea. They wanted to attach the smooth square tubes on top of knife sharp diamond plate, without causing damage as the ridges gouge into the mounts over time and cause them to loosen. It would be much better to remove the cover there, or at least sand the ridges off to provide a smooth flat mounting surface and get rid of the plastic!

 

Does Oliver tell rack owners to check the bolts? If they are 1/2-13 Grade 5 they should be 82 ft lbs. If the nuts continually need to be tightened there is a problem..... ever wonder why they keep changing the rack design?

 

I am not a structural engineer but I was an aircraft A&P tech and this stuff is basic hardware theory..... you  never build a stressed assembly with two hollow parts and a soft spacer between them like this because it is just dumb.

 

Some reading: ... https://blog.maxprocorp.com/the-difference-between-tension-shear-and-bending-joints

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

I don't have any plastic spacers on mine.  Perhaps that was a later addition.

 

I don't think that the fender washers they use are oversized, but they're only used on the top against the receiver tubes.  On the bottom, they're standard washers.  They may be lock washers.  The frame is also heavily reinforced there with a C channel that transfers the compression forces to the flanges, or tube walls.  The receiver tubes and diamond plate do the same for the top.  Sure a compression tube would make it stronger, but for any reasonable load I see zero issues with Oliver's design.

 

I suspect that Oliver changed the design because a) its impossible to keep the two receiver tubes aligned well enough to make sliding the platform rack on and off easy - especially since the tubes are set on diamond plate so they tend to move and twist when tightened; and b) they didn't want to be in the bike rack business and the new design allows owners to buy whatever rack they want without bothering the production floor with special requests.

Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm,

 

I'll put in my two cents, just cause. Relative to the inherent strength of the rear bumper support - left and right 5" x 2" x 1/4" aluminum tubing, it is well within the design intent of the Oliver specifications. Oliver told me it was rated to 100 lbs. (I won't get into names) but it was someone in the know. I have tested to about 300 lbs. with no issues, in fact, the effect is to unload the tongue somewhat, and the axle assembly "spring" soak up a good part of the stress. ( myself and two 40lbs dumb bells). I don't regularly load it any more than 100lbs. In my experience, the trailer is not affected by this weight in the least. As for designed in "crunch" failure feature, I'm not worried, enough force to do that much damage, will have so much collateral damage to have ruined my day anyway.

 

The frame is also heavily reinforced there with a C channel that transfers the compression forces to the flanges, or tube walls. The receiver tubes and diamond plate do the same for the top. Sure a compression tube would make it stronger, but for any reasonable load I see zero issues with Oliver’s design.

For the design intent, I concur.

 

ever wonder why they keep changing the rack design

 

I am also privy as to why the rear bike/platform mounting, was deleted as an option (well at least what I was told). It wasn't due to strength or frailty. I actually described to "Oliver" a design I was considering (very similar to what they offer now), but I asked if I could purchase one of the left over "deleted" rack/platforms, and they sold it to me as a loose parts purchase. As I already had a very good Thule bike rack, I intended to use parts off of it, combined with the platform from Oliver, and presto, I had a very sturdy and workable bike carrier.

 

As for inserting the rack into the mounting channel, and removing it, now that  - is a chore. I am in the process of reducing the surface area of the platform male "square tubes" just enough to ease the sliding in/out of the rack/platform. Perhaps a little lube will help. With the platform mounted, you must remove it rearward a few inches to get the spare tire off of the Oliver. If you have the old set-up, and haven't tried to remove the spare - I suggest you have a go at it, consider yourself warned.

 

In 2500 miles, the bolts have not loosed one bit, but then, I also use a little Loctite thread locker. I didn't put a torque wrench on it when I tightened the nuts/bolts, but with an 16" handle, it was plenty tight.

 

Were I to design another rack platform, I would use a top mount design, just as the original design. It works well, is a sturdy and solid mounting location. Well,  in my shade tree mechanical engineering opinion - anyways.

 

RB

Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...