Geronimo John
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Posts posted by Geronimo John
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The Anderson has about a 10 time learning curve. Once you figure it out, its easy. Here are some suggestions:
First don't mess with the chain lengths or their attachment points unless you are a professional installer or super experienced in the process. Doing so will surely cause grief.
So, for Hooking up the Anderson tips I have found useful:
- Always have both side tires chalked. Ollie going for a down hill ride by itself will be costly. And could be deadly.
- Save yourself grief and strive to only hook up and unhook with Ollie and TV being very straight. You figure that one out soon enough.
- Loosen your chain nuts full loose is a starter step. Like FULL LOOSE with half the threads of the nut showing.
- If you have air bags, to a point, the higher you raise the TV, the looser the chains get. Raise up, couple up, hook up whale plate, then lower to runnng height, then tighten the nuts.
- Having some lubricant on the whale plate and locking pins greatly eases install.
- I use a can of spray lithium grease on mine. Have a rag or paper towels handy.
- If you find stranage stains on your leg or pants .... you know where they came from.
GJ
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On 5/7/2023 at 3:30 PM, SeaDawg said:
I really like Honda (and Yamaha) longevity.
However, the Yamaha has a smaller motor and will not run some A/C units with or without an EZ start as a result... despite being a 2000 watt inverter. Both the Honda 2000 EU and 2200 EU inverters will.
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We have used these for the last six years. They last us about three years.
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23 hours ago, topgun2 said:
Or - do as I do - I use both if possible.😉
So long as you use at least one (Preferably more) boards on top of wood blocks sort of works. Sort of due to the rough surface of the jack skid plate on the softer board. For other blocks with anti-ski surfaces it is not a reliable slip plane.
Here's how I believe the slip interfaces react: (Top To Bottom)
- The rough jack steel base on top of a board on your block is not reliablek as stated above.
- Your one really good slip plane is the board bottom surface to the block top surface if it is smooth. If not, it is a gamble.
- The block to dirt slip plane is also not reliable. In softer grounds it gets pushed into the dirt a bit. On paving, the hard bumps of the paving resist the block from moving. So, as above, this one also is not a reliable slip plane..
So with a block on a single board setup, you have one slip plane of variable reliability.
However with three or more boards you have at least 2 reliable slip planes:
- The jack steel base to the top of board. As above this one does not count.
- Next you have at least two really good slip planes between the three smooth boards.
- As above, the board to dirt slip plane is not reliable and does not count.
Having at least two good slip planes is very effective. However, if I had already purchased the blocks, I would at least carry three boards to get one effective slip plane. More if I wanted two slip planes per jack...belts and suspenders.
GJ
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On 3/16/2024 at 5:21 AM, rideadeuce said:
Hey guys, I think I may have just figured out why this happened. If I am thinking about this correctly, looks like to me the wrong coupler was installed from the factory. 5k instead of the 7k coupler. Maybe one from the Elite I got put into the Elite II pile, they look identical, except for the notorious gusset. Just noticed this when I was looking it over again.
On 3/16/2024 at 5:29 AM, Rivernerd said:It appears to me that Oliver owes you reimbursement for your replacement coupler. I recommend you submit a service ticket. Oliver has acted responsibly when advised of manufacturing errors in the past
wow. Yep to both! Glad we got that figured out!
GJ
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Blocks or boards are an important and necessary to reduce wear, damage or destruction of your jacks.
The wear part has two components. First, is you don't use them as much every time you change camp sites. Less use = less wear. Secondly having the jacks on some sort of blocking reduces the lever arm of the jack to resist lateral movement and the trailer as a result will feel more steady. But MOST importantly is what happens during an OOPs (Driving off with a jack down).
On multiple occasions I have seen owners of all experience levels execute the death of a jack by OOPs. If on concrete, it will kill the jack. On softer ground, the jack plate likely will dig in and kill the jack. Either way the odds are you will have a deceased jack. This can be a real PITA.
But, with something between the jack and the ground, preferable at least 5" or more high, another engineering concept comes to the rescue. And that concept is called slip. In engineering, slip is a sliding displacement along a plane of one part of a system relative to the rest of the system under the action of shearing forces—that is, forces acting parallel to that plane.
To greatly reduce OOPs damage to our jacks we need to add something between them and the ground to take advantage of the slip plane concept. I call thick ones blocks. Thin ones made of sections of lumber I call boards.
Blocks can be purchased in lots of different sizes and materials. If I were going to go with a single block for each jack, I personally like TopGuns! Cheap, strong, and not hard to replace. Not as pretty as the Anderson's, but they are way less expensive. Blocks are also most optimal if all of your camp sites are RV Park level.
But, alas we are generally boondockers and our camp sites come in all forms of not level. This is one reason why we carry a milk crate full of 2" X 6" X 11" sections of treated boards for our OE2. Here are some of the operational advantages of boards:
- Comparatively they are real inexpensive. Lose one and you carry on.
- Should long term storage bring termite damage to the bottom board of the stack, I toss a single board. The others are still useable.
- I can toss them around with zero worries.
- I can use more of less of my board sections as needed to offset unlevel camp sites.
- For real soft ground, I can stack two flat on the ground (side to side) and another on top 90 degrees perpendicular to them to create a double size footprint.
- They make great axle spacers should you have two flats or break a spring!
For reasonably level camp sites, I stack three of them on top of each other to maximize height and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) to create more slip planes of safety for our jacks from an OOPs. Yes, I am also a member of the OTT Jack Drop Club. Good news is when OOPsing, you hear it thud and stop, With three jack drops in six years I have had no jack damage.
So whether you use blocks or board sections either way: Slip Planes Saves Jacks!
GJ
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1 hour ago, mountainoliver said:
Just as a suggestion, Oliver should use the 7,000 pound version for all of the trailers.
The 2" Bulldog Coupler is rated at 7K. The 2 5/16" BD coupler is rated 12,500.
The OTT OE2 Springs for years were rated at 7K. The Broke Spring post is suggesting increasing the springs to 8K.
Easy to confuse what we say with so many topics in the air right now. 🙂
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On 3/14/2024 at 12:08 PM, DavePhelps said:
I am seeing some things in the pics that are a little disturbing. Like in the above pics where there is rust in the center of the fracture and clean bright metal at the top and bottom. Maybe someone else can explain how this can happen
Dave Phelps post got me to thinking. After taking a “Deeper Dive” into this rabbit hole, I have to admit that my salt water/ocean air hypothesis may be all wet. Full disclosure: I am not a metallurgist but with my slide rule, I can still do some structural analysis. But in this case, I think the below interpretation may hold some water. So, this certainly is NOT an official analysis of the cause of the failure. Just the musings of a member of the OTT Rabbit Hole Investigator Team. 😊
As stated in the initial report, the top metal of the Bull Dog (BD) was still somewhat intact after failure. Had this metal also failed, we would be having a discussion about safety chains (Again). But fortunately, that was not the case and there were no injuries. Thank the Lord.
Also as reported, and from the below inverted picture, we can see older damaged metal (Rusted), and at time of collapse damaged metal (Shiny white metal). This photo shows us that both sides were well compromised long before the failure event.
CURB SIDE OF BD STREET SIDE OF BD
But, as evident from the photo from the street side looking at the side of the BD, the street side was predominantly ripped apart during the failure event. Whereas the curb side was damaged long enough in the past to be fully rusted.
TV END OF BD OLLIE END OF BD
So paraphrasing Dave P's. musing: With or without the horizontal gusset how could this disparity in damage to the side metals happen?
But first, let’s “Dig” into what the purpose of "The Gussett" is and likely why BD added it to their 2" couplers.
Here is what they look like:
The gusset is located near the juncture of the BD round pipe and U-shaped metal attached to Ollie. I believe that the purpose of a horizontal structural member (I.E. Gusset) is to reinforce the round to “U” shaped metals junction from being damaged by side horizontal loads. From the posts, it appears that older BD 2" couplings did not have this reinforcing structural member. I suspect after some lateral failures the design was beefed up to resist lateral loads by adding this gusset.
When a box, round or square tube is lateral stressed by an impact load, the impacted side will go into compression and the opposite side will be stressed by tension.
So historically for all BD couplers, with or without the gusset, what is the most likely event that would cause side wall cracks with such a disparity as seen above? I think a side impact load. And how would our OE2’s likely incur such an event? By a backing jackknife event where the Oliver aluminum box strikes the bumper thereby bending the BD laterally.
So, as a member of the TV dented bumper owners group, I’ll be under my BullDog with a flashlight FOR SURE.
For extra points, which bumper would also been damaged?
Your thoughts?
Geronimo John
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Duplicate. Sorry.
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9 hours ago, rideadeuce said:
I suspect you are right and that the missing gusset is the primary suspect for me.
Quite likely.
My guess is corrosion ate it alive over time and got to the point of failure under normal driving loads. If it were mine, I would want do know how the failure came about, and that is likely a BD effort.
Hopefully we will be an update down the road.
GJ
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7 hours ago, mossemi said:
If Bulldog does in fact send a replacement coupler, be sure to request the 2-5/16" coupler.
LOL. I see you are a wise ole fellow! Great idea.
Now if you can figure out a line to get the TV end of the Anderson replaced for free with the larger ball, we'll all stand up and cheer. At least those who are running the 2" versions. :-0
GJ
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7 hours ago, MAX Burner said:
My understanding of the "rule of thumb" for tongue weight is that it should be in the range of 9-11% of the actual weight of the TT - not the dry weight. Could be wrong, though.
Nope you're spot on. One can dither on the % as it changes for every trailer. Regardless the idea is to have more than you need to prevent bad words. Having the great scale like you have is a wonderful way to check as over time it surely will change based upon so many factors. But knowing what it is compared to past voyages is the "Gold Star" approach.
6 hours ago, topgun2 said:ALL 1/2 ton trucks that I'm aware of REQUIRE a weight distribution hitch.
Yep..... virtually 99.998% that I am aware of do. in fact, I have never seen any of those 2/1,000th unicorns, but likely it was a milspec WW2 Jeep product or one of those super cool vintage Dodge Power Wagons. Neither of which would make a very practical TV for a lot of reasons that are irrelevant to your this topic. 🙂 However since OTT has well over 1,000 trailers on the road, there likely is a 1/2 ton that does not need one, and I would bet it's a beautifully restored WW2 machine.
4 hours ago, ScubaRx said:It would, however, be easy to strengthen it up.
I FOR SURE WOULD NOT attempt to do so even with a master welder of the highest skills. And my Grand Pa was one.
I for sure do recommend getting with BD and seeing what they say and will do to remedy the situation. I'll bet they want yours and will send you a new one.
GJ
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1 hour ago, rideadeuce said:
SO why not just OEM the 2-5/16th coupler instead of the marginal 2 in
No disrespect intended, but I do not support the above statement line.
The 2" BD is an excellent coupler for long long term use by our OE2's, unless we are exceeding the max gross weght of the trailer plackard (7,000 pounds).
1. The use of the 2 5/16" BD's came about from concern with the ball wear caused by the design of the Anderson WDH. Not out of concern for the need for additional safety margins.
2. BD likely has millions of their 2" couplers in service and has an impecable reputation as being one of the strongest couplers on the market.
3. Yours likely failed form one, or some combination, of these causes:
a. Over Loading
b. Exposure to salt environment(s) without extensive cleaning after such exposures
c. Failure to control rust over long duration
d. Factory defect
You should contact BD and discuss. I suspect they will replace yours and want yours back for analysis.
Gj
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5 hours ago, MAX Burner said:
the BD failure - there's likely to be some of us thinking about going with the 2-5/16" option after reading through this thread.
As you know, I had OTT build our Ollie with the 2 5/16 BD. Glad I did. But if I had not, I would not toss a perfectly good 2" BD until it wore out.
The corrosion failure for this 2017 BB had to have occurred over a long period of time. Could have been originated from a single salt exposure (Sea or salted roads) environment. Once the corrosion starts, you would not need such an environment for it to continue to propagate down the weld line. If ignored all the way to failure.
Either way, CAREFULLY inspecting our BD's (As well as all other rustable running gear) every couple of years and mechanically eliminating any rust and recoating should be added to our long term maintenance inspections. Especially if our rigs are stored in a salt air environment or are ever used on salted roads.
GJ
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On 1/19/2024 at 2:50 PM, SAR said:
4. Blow compressed air (40psi) through the lines to eliminate any water (taps, toilet, outside shower).
One concern to keep top of mind when using air to purge our plastic lines is water hammer. At 40 PSI you can shoot a slug of water down a mostly purged line very very quickly. All will be fine on straight runs, but when they hit a 90 degree elbow or flat side of a T, it can, and has, blown off many a fitting.
Personally I would consider regulating the air pressure down to 25 PSI vs. 40. May take a bit longer, but likely would result in less water leaks in the Spring.
GJ
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On 3/12/2024 at 8:02 AM, Roger said:
I forgot to put the anode in the water heater. Sigh.
A LOT of us have made the same oops! Once. 🙂
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1 hour ago, dhaig said:
The fans are quite secure using this mounting mechanism.
I have installed similar fans, and am thinking of doing both sides. Purpose obviously is to reduce the bypass of outside air into and then out of the fans so that they pull fresh air in below. I also know that there have been changes in the grills between your and my older OE2.
Hard to tell, but it looks like you have blocked off airflow on the aft side of the fans, but maybe not on the fore side. Is that what I'm seeing? IF so, what's your thoughts?
Thanks
GJ
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1 hour ago, johnwen said:
Question for the community...can I leave the Oliver factory fan setup as installed and just find a power source to connect the new fans.
Yes.
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16 hours ago, DavePhelps said:
It looks like there's rust where the hitch broke apart?
1 hour ago, Steph and Dud B said:I think I would still file a report with the NHTSA. This is probably just a one-off, but on the odd chance this has happened to other Bulldog hitches, maybe NHTSA will see a pattern and initiate a recall. There was a reasonable chance that failure could have led to injury.
Is there any evidence of galvanic corrosion from the SS bolts, Bulldog and aluminum frame?
I agree fully on submitting a report to the NHTSA. Your post has 85% of the info they will need. Process on line is easy.
GJ
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40 minutes ago, Mountainman198 said:
the suspension arrives to Oliver as an assembly and is rated as the assembly (springs plus axles).
Very nicely stated. We will likely all at some time feel the pain of these spring failures, but OTT will certainly have far more difficulties than we will.
It is for this reason that I hold OTT totally NOT at fault in any way for these springs failing. IMHO, this is a Dexter OEM issue.
GJ
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5 hours ago, MAX Burner said:
@Geronimo John: Maybe add a data field for "price point"?
Art:
A. Up and Out Info: First we can help OTT by getting the User Names and number of spring failures. The great part is that our impacted owners can provide reliable knowledge of their failures. This info is the ammo that they will need right off the bat should they bring this to Dexter's attention. If OTT desires more info from the impacted owners, it would be prudent for them to get it directly from the owners involved. Our list will be very helpful to our friends at OTT. That is where I'm going with this.
B. Down and In Info: Asking that owners provide their paid cost for the specification I posted earlier today will allow straight forward comparisons of the spring alternatives that we as a group honed. Just getting prices without knowing what was purchased would not. This effort is one we as Owners can and should do directly.
C. Down the Road: If OTT determines that they are going with another direction for their springs, then their volume would generate a much better price than we could ever get. The hope is that they would do the right thing (As in my eyes they ALWAYS have.) and offer replacement springs to all of us at their cost plus shipping and some handling. That is my the ideal solution in my eyes; the end of the issue as far as I'm concerned.
GJ
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1 hour ago, jd1923 said:
God Bless @John E Davies
Amen.
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Let's coordinate efforts for sourcing replacement springs. To facilitate, here is a compilation of specification elements presented. This way we can have apple to apple comparisons
GJ
· Four each replacement spring sets for tandem axle Oliver Trailer. Each with new U-Bolts
· Made in USA with USA sourced 5160 spring steel
· Brass eye bushings
· Wet Bolt Bushing ID = 9/16"
· 2,000 lb rating
· 5 leaves
· Second leaf extends underneath eye on each end (protecting common break area)
· Steel, bolted spring keepers (one each end) vs a single, sheet metal band
· Spring center bolt setup for Under Slung axle.
· Width = 1.75"
· Drop = 3”
· Length (eye-to-eye) = 25.25”
Warranty Info:
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I have sent in a ticket to OTT about the numbers of failures of the 4 leaf Dexter spring sets. So far we have documented the following:
ScubaRX Long Duration ≥ 10 these occurred in the past
SNY SD UP July 2023 2
Mountain Man 198 Q1 2024 2
Mountain Oliver 2023 2
Stevon Feb 2024 1
For those listed, please PM me with any changes or additional info so I may update.
If you have had an OTT Dexter 4 leaf spring failure, please send me a PM with info.
I'll update this list as needed.
GJ
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Newbies taking the plunge - Are we missing anything
in General Discussion
Posted
Safety John says when hooking up, the TV should be off, in park, and with emergency brake set.
GJ