Geronimo John

I am not a Truma guy, but PLEASE submit a ticket to OTT on this. In my eyes this is a clear safety issue as unrestrained movement of this machine could impace one of the gas lines down there and cause a BOOM with your family personally involved. GJ

You are sounding more and more like a potential canidate for the OTT Rabbit Hole Society! 🙂 I love it.... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For sure when mine dies. No need to rush into this on my end. However, I'll be monitoring your wonderful results to make sure that your cables and the 50 amper holds up with the high voltage drop issue still out there. Bottom line I'm thrilled with the efforts for all of us. You and Geoff are "Pathfinders" on this topic, and others, for sure! GJ

This past summer, my iPhone XR died while in northern Idaho. Without it, my 2019 F-150 navagation was useless. I pulled out my RV 780 which fortunately I had updated during the summer of 2025. It work wondefully. Hopefully Garmin will continue to allow updates and support battery upgrades. GJ

Spot on. At the time running my #4 cables was costly in time and materials. The 100' length of cable for a 70 amp unit would be super heavy and off the charts expensive. I'll be staying with my 30 amp and cables at least until it dies. Then relook at the actual performance of the 50 amp unit with the same cables. So GO JD to figure it out for me. LOL In the mean time I will be moving my negative wire over to the fender stud, adding my twin spare set of refer fans under my Orion, and resetting the Victron settings per the "Rabbit Hole" attachment. For any ownere with or considering DC to DC, I think this thread has documented some really sage info to make the process easier and more effective. GJ

JD: That's one way to get there. I did not connect mine, but am rethinking it. Let's consider putting to better use the truck OEM charge battery cable that we all disconnected in the past for the Litho's. Just enable it to pass back thru the existing 7-wire connection and redirect it to the Orion. That line is hot only when you need it for this purpose. GJ

Dean: Good response above. Glad you are going with the 50 A version. Although I stated in several places in my post about the equipment I have for DC/DC charging another reminder to owners to double check numbers and settings for THEIR gear. You chart is a huge eye opener about voltage drop. All of the below is based upon a 100' out and back distance. Looking at the numbers for the older 30 amp vs. the newer 50 amp is great. But the calculation understates the problem of using too small cables: With use of oversized cables in an ideal world, both units could produce their rated outputs. But in the real world we need to remember there are losses that will be incurred. With oversized cables and Orion individual efficiency of operation: At the TV batteries the 50 amp version input will likely pull just a bit more amps due to its very high efficiency. But the 30 amp version with it's much lower efficiency will pull a lot more amps at the TV battery. With oversized cables, I'm guessing in the real world, at the TV battery the 50 amp would be pulling about 53 amps. The 30 amp unit would pull 38 amps. To more accurately calculate the wire size one would need to use the estimated 54 amps or 40 amps for the two calculations. When we add in the degrading factor of the 100' actual resistance losses, the Orion units output will be decreases and the input from the TV will be increased. So what practicle conclusions can we derive from this? Here are a few that my pea brain is pondering: Your great chart is overly kind. Assuming 100' of cable, very high grade copper wire, and excellent terminations: The wire size for the 30 Amp output Orion should be 2 AWG (minimum) and 1/0 preferred. For the 50 Amp output Orion it should be 1/0 (Minimum) and 2/0 preferred. That for the negative cable, one should always use an out and back cable design vs using the truck and trailer frames as conductors. That using #4 AWG cabling with a 50 amp Orion is not going to get anywhere close to the rated 50 amp amperage to the TV...... unless the cables are also upgraded. In my case of my three year installed 30 Amp Orion, 100' of very high grade copper cable #4 cables, with the unit mounted under the fore port seat; I must remove the cover and cushions AND add supplemental fans under the Orion. And then I'll likely see the unit stay on, but still only produce a bit over 20 amps contineous. And that is fine now that I understand why I'm not going to get close to 30 amps. In summary, the reality of phisics that you, Geoff, and JD have made clear is just what it is. And I thank each of you for taking the time to help me understand why. GJ

One followup thought about your product choice for pure dehumidificaiton: Typically, our OE2 is stored 7 to 8 months off season (November to June) in a dark barn on top of an OK mountain. I have used Arm and Hammer for one year and DampRid for 8 years. DampRid from my use has provn far superior for us. I noted your picture and for grins checked what AI thinks. GJ

I have read the above thread several times now. I too very much appreciate Geoff’s and JD’s discussions and comments. They are clear and well written. But as a Mechanical Engineer and wrench turner... frankly I don't have the electrical background to really understand the specific “gizmology” of these systems. Hence started digging a huge rabbit hole. With significant AI hand holding, I cut and pasted 3 tons of info into the attachmed 8 page document. Do be aware of stepping off with me into the hole. If you like short answers, suggest hitting the delete button. But for those of us having problems with their DC to DC system, or wanting to better understand it, or are contemplating installing one: I recommend reading this document to add to your baseline of knowledge. I hope that the attachment brings some understanding of the complex relationships and equipment that makes these not so simple DC/DC charging system so valueble to us "Long Ranger" OTT owners. SO, with a strong beverage of choice in hand, I encourage the technicals and Rabit Hole Society Members to provide correcting inputs. At some point I will update the attachment and repost…… Mahalo GJ PS: Just a reminder that although I have cross checked many of the AI inputs, there may be differences in your TV and/or Victron Orion charging systems. And of course….. AI may just be wrong and I have parked my Ollie over yonder with Alice in Wonderland. 🙂 FORD BMS AND VICTRON ORION DC to DC.docx

Way back there in June after 40 nights you did not report any condensation issues. Now you have issues. What chanaged? The weather most likely... i.e. cooler temperatures. Likely you do not have adequate air changes in your unit AND are seeing lower temperatures especially in the cabinets and other non-heated areas. Combined you will have condnsation. It IS necessary to open up your MaxFan just a bit and one of your windows a bit to allow moisture to exit. When cooking inside, using a higher setting on the max fan and a wider window opening are required as well. Give this a try and see how it works for you. Good luck. GJ PS: I would wager that 90% of us have had condensation issues at some point, and learned how to manage air changes as much as we must monitor our SOC's.

Very likely as you have the 50 amp version. Those of us with the 30 amp.... another story. These units have a relatively low efficiency and as such could warm the entire trailer in some conditions. Mine shuts down after an hour or so if I don't open up the lid to let the heat out. GJ

Cotter Pins and Washers would be a lot less expensive. GJ

Sound recommendation for sure that also applies to hot water heaters that have an anode. Plugging the hole also is done to allow winter condensation to drain and to keep critters out of the tank. GJ

Unplug from shore power and fire off your Inverger to feed a 1500 watt electrical resistance heater. Recommend pluging it in to the patio plug. That give the system some exercise and not work your A/C. 🙂 GJ

JD: Do you always remove the cushions and hatch to allow the heat out so as to keep the Orion fully in play? GJ

Geoff: Could this be the reason that I don't see a charge rate at via the Ollie's Victron shunt more than 22 amps despite having a 30 amp Orion in play? GJ

As have we. Not sure I could blame their demise on our winterization using Super Tech though.....

typo

There is some concern that the steel rod threads will "eat" the aluminum slot. A smooth rod of steel with collars or washers and cotter pins would likely serve you best. GJ

Good observation. Any chance that the pipe and faucet had been hard frozen? That could account for both issues.

Great post and thank you Cindy! Below is a long version with a couple of alternate RV products than the Super Walment Center Super Tech version that many of us have been using. Owners: If there are other less expensive sources please advise all. Have we seen any long term damage in our OTT's? (I have used it for 9 winters and have not experiencned any). If none by others then maybe the topic is over-blown. GJ RV ANTIFREEZE (Keep).docx

Wow I'll need to digest your post a bit. By chance will our Pre-2020 trailers best use Sharkbite fittings and Pex - B pipe? With zero plumbing leaks in 9 seasons, I'm think for our 2027 season that it is for sure time to get to the Big Box store to acquire a small stock pile of the proper fittings. Here is a starting point for discussion: (Assuming all are 1/2" sized.) Half Stick of Pex-B pipe (One Each) Female Swivel adaptor (See above, Two Each) Coupling 90 and 45 degree elbows (2 Each) Support fixture for fixing the Pex-B pipe (See above, One Each) Stainless Steel Hose Clamps? (Needed? Number?) What above is not needed or is not listed? thanks, GJ

The NEC, and maybe others, require a service disconnect for appliance maintenance. A plug is the cheapest way to provide a disconnect for service. GJ

Thanks, but I was not providing any comments about all the changes. Your input on some of them is spot on though. I would not swap my Ollie for a 9 year used Apex. Just way too many systems that a "normal" person could ever maintain. Violates my KISS and easily maintainable preferences. OH, and that brand new looking trailer someone parked at your home can't possibly be the same one that was the chalked-out one I saw before. LOL. Basically saying WOW the ceramic coating makes your 2017 look better than new! GJ

Good thoughts for sure. I take them a step further. For the newer owners, when you hook up to the City water on-boarding port, your closed plumbing system comes up to the same standing pressure as the city system. This includes your pump, hot water heater, and all your piping to the bathroom, kitchen and outside . That pressure generally is much higher than the OTT pumped system, and can cause leaks. When not using this port, most leaks are slow drippers. But if your system is connected to this port, you can get a really serious leak. Especially if you some air in your plumbing, the high pressure City water and air in your system can cause severe water hammer. And that's when fittings get blown out. With a nod to JD's post above, when you have such a system breach, it will flow a lot of water into your hull. If you are not there, your trailer suspension and MEP systems are at extreme risk. Hence you really should be there when using this port. Unless my pump fails, my "Step Further" is that I don't use this port (except for winterizing at the end of season). Just not worth the risk. GJ

JD: This 50-response thread has drawn the attention of The Rabbit Hole Executive Committee, particularly because several of your responses are highly technical and lengthy. Analysis shows that several of your posts exceed the Association’s screening requirements. If further such posts on this thread continue, you will be involuntarily inducted into the OTT Rabbit Hole Association. This is your one and only warning. Vigilantly, Chairman for Life of the Rabbit Hole Association