NO BRAKES ; 2019 Oliver Elite II-Hull #448

[BoondockingAirstream]

Wonderful information is flowing like Niagara Falls... I can barely swim and I see the 'mist' going over the edge,

I went to the www.airforums.com out or curiosity.

Checked:  Running Gear- Axles, Brakes, Wheels & Tires.  Went to Brakes and Brake Controllers:  (The following is a cut and paste.  A very nice job.  I have a Bargman on the Oliver Elite II presently... just to update FYI.)

Airstreams have identical issues, which does not surprise me.  I have been lucky with mine buying new off the lot and checking it over before closing the deal.  Although Airstream may sell hundreds every year and have thousands on the road.  All operate the same kind of electrical brakes. Not good to hear.

************* My cut and paste**********

Check your Trailer connector! 

Unless they have changed, for some reason Airstream uses Bargman (?) 7 pin connector on the trailer pig tail. These double contact ("duck-bill") connectors do not meet the SAE Standards and DO NOT play well with most of the OEM 7 pin sockets that meet the SAE Standard.

It is such a problem that I believe all of the big 3 have put out bulletins over the years. 

Here is a bulletin that RAM put out
--- https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuilde...2BI1n%2Bn9n%0A

I have that one as I drive a RAM 2500 Cummins. I switched my the connector on the end of the Airstream (2019) to a Pollak 12-706 and all messages about trailer brake disconnected and intermittent problems went away. These Pollak connectors are less than $8 on Amazon and it only takes a few minutes to cut the old one off and wire up the new one.

The weird thing was this intermittent error didn't show up at first. However, once it started it progressively got worse. Its been over 2 years now since I changed the connector on the Airstream and have never had an issue since.
 

Edited August 3 by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

The 'previous' mentioned Mobile Service called and their 'mobile service person' hurt his back on  a previous work project and wanted to reschedule... which I passed upon.  I began to self educate myself, viewing similar issues of other travel trailer owners, discovering the shorted wiring in the rear Dexter Axle 'tube'. Wow... this has been going on for decades.

At $125 an hour for trailer labor... that is a lot of nickel video poker loose change for us.  Our Bankroll is $20 to $40 at the three hand video poker machines and a $5 tip for a cold glass of beer on tap.  Hmmm.  I can get onto my 'creeper' and get to everything... now.  This wiring should have been changed decades ago.

A close local Travel Trailer sales and service had a two month waiting list that had, mostly, good reviews.  

Been under the Oliver yesterday and noticed some work had been done on the rear outside brake wiring... which indicates previous issue possibilities. The Axle Wire which shorts is the original and is the cheapest wire that you would find on an old television... in the dump.

Shorted wires in all kinds of RV's and Travel Trailers, same Dexter Axle through the hollow axle and wears to expose wire and shorts out the braking system.   Same issues and manufacturers continue with the same procedure.  

Moved the Oliver outside, onto our down hill, angled driveway to the street, for a better natural lighting. This angle gives me more space to work with than a flat garage surface.  Picking up a new 7 pin plug on the trailer... just in case that may be the problem. But not optimistic that will do it.

I will have plenty of experience after this... investigation. Thank You... fellow Oliver owners with the same problem and fixed it themselves, giving advice.  If all fails... the options are few and expensive.

[BoondockingAirstream]

Wiring in #448.  An expensive Travel Trailer, as an Oliver, should have the BEST WIRING and be 100% RELIABLE for a decade or two decades.

When removing the original Break Away Switch to test the Brakes... the eyelet for the wire to pull out... broke off.  The 'bakelite'  was brittle and I ordered a replacement on the Internet and it arrived the next day. Wonderful service Home Depot.  All of these switches appear to be the same with different names. The switch is easy to remove, replace.. with a steel wire... got the rear wheels above the ground... Nancy my wonderful wife... spun the wheels and each wheel locked up as they should.

Caveat:  You may want to check yours. A year ago, it worked. The replacement  was about $10 from Home Depot and delivered to our home the next day. 🙂

Many reports of the wiring going through the REAR AXLE being shorted out... should not happen to anyone.  I pulled mine out and was NOT shorted.  Dirty and brittle brownish in appearance. The wiring is the cheapest POS wired into a terrible location... for wearing off the insulation.

 I used an extension cord, picked two colored wires of the three ( heavier gauge than the Oliver option).  Then had a section of a flexible water hose to run across the upper back side of the AXLE and pulled the WELL insulated extension cord through it, wired the ends to the rear brake wiring.

Then six or seven nylon Zip Ties to secure the hose and inserted cord to the two electric brake wiring.  It was easy after viewing a number of videos... helped a  lot 

Lifted each side UP off the ground with my jack where a decal says where to place it... the wheels locked up after pulling the NEW Break Away Switch.  I scanned the original wiring on the rear axle brakes.  The RED WIRES were TINY.  Maybe a bit paranoid now... but if this is Brake Wire Installations for ALL Olivers... oh Boy.

I may have lost several pounds from sweat evaporation. It was 105 degrees... but I was in the... shade, so a bit cooler.  Maybe.

 Pull off the rear Wheel to do the wiring.  Much easier than working from the back side.

My 'nasal hairs' are almost a thick as the RED Wires that went through the AXLE.  They have the brown covering.

Edited yesterday at 06:07 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[Snackchaser]

Wiring used by manufactures for trailer brakes may seem ugly or brittle, but it has properties and insulation appropriate for the application and harsh environment where it can exposed to water, oil, chemicals, constant vibration, and abrasion.

Please use caution using extension cords for brake wiring because they could have inferior wire that looks good, but with insulation that could deteriorate and fail over time.  Trailer brake wire is readily available for this purpose, and it's a better and proven choice.  

Cheers!  Geoff

[BoondockingAirstream]

WHY all of the BRAKE ISSUES with wiring?  On this Forum and way too many on an Internet Search.  

My 2019 27FBQ Airstream operates perfectly.  If I have a braking issue in the Future... I will make it a point to ADD TO THIS DISCUSSION, ONTO THIS THREAD.  Myself, my wiring at 75 years old, could have more experience with wire than I am discussing.  Be patient... I am.

 Do not judge one by their appearance... 

Shorts of the wiring going through the Rear Axle.  Plenty as well.  I did not try to break the insulation, but come by and see it in person.  Imagination is not a substitute for doing it.  I say. But I am a Neanderthal.  🙂

Others pulling out all of the original wiring and 'upgrading'?

Inferior wiring?  I bet that the wire I used, was packaged and had one or more organizations giving them 100% approval.  The wiring  used  on Antique Wurlitzer Jukeboxes from 1940 to 1949 had rayon (?) covering shielded wire and still... good.

What is your experience with wiring?  I may have to look over Travel Trailer wiring at Home Depot or Lowes.  Purchasing from RV Dealers for an item for less at a Hardware Store?

Time will tell.  Ugly is not a term for undersized wiring definition.  It is called POOR Choices. Will have to look over the wiring used in our 2019 Airstream.  Have not had to work on the electrical wiring... yet.

I am the Messenger.  Everyone has a choice.  I look.  I saw.  I removed and upgraded.  

Ugly is a bad paint job or poor buff.  I have yet to have UGLY Wire.  This wire sucked... as did some of the others.  Do your 'own wire job' some day and give some experienced wiring knowledge.

I did this watching others on the Internet.  There are lots of excellent experience... and some... that did not really know anything... and you could tell.  Several videos were like watching the person in a classroom.  Made me smarter... and more confident.   It worked.  I stand by my results... not the opinions of others.

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:33 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

Don't confuse 20 gauge Brake Wires with a 10 gauge Extension Cord wire.  (10 gauge is larger diameter than 20 gauge... in wire number confusion)

Gauge numbers with larger numbers have smaller diameter copper wires.  The  Oliver Stock Brake Two Wires at 20 gauge are red.

Gauge numbers with small numbers have large wires. My extension cord scan with Three wires at 10 gauge.  The flexible cord is pliable and tough.  This extension cord slid nice and tight into the 4-5 foot section of water hose.  I did not scan it so you may not like white with blue stripped hoses.  I do not care.  I have it.  I used it.  I pick up pennies in parking lots.  (The dime was found in a parking lot.  I have good eye sight, as well.)

The Brown hard material is not what I would want to use in MY Oliver if changing wires.  The so called 'cheap extension cord' is what I have a few of different lengths.  

Look at the Diameter of the 110v+ Power Cord that plugs into the side of the Oliver.  It is large in diameter.  The Airstream has one that when coiled, I can barely carry it. At least I can go to a RV Park... and handle all of the Electricity that is available.

When I say 'cheap' extension cord... the original on the LEFT is what you have currently.  I used what is on the right. I cut the white wire back and used the Black and Green wires.  I could have done it different, but I am a Neanderthal and do not care about the color.  Only if it is GOOD.

(The glow is not a hot undersized wire... but copper.)

 

Edited 23 hours ago by BoondockingAirstream

[jd1923]

@BoondockingAirstream it’s a shame that your tech did not show earlier this week, but that’s the state of responsibility since the “Greatest Generation” and us Baby-Boomers! 🤣

If you can drag that brakeless Oliver from Nevada to Prescott, I’d have your rig braking in less than 24 hours, promise!

Find somebody who can read a multimeter and understands the 7-blade trailer connection and soon you should be “on the road again.”

Edited 18 hours ago by jd1923

[BoondockingAirstream]

JD thanks for the generous offer.  We Boondock every Spring for years in the Reserve, New Mexico Area, hunting Agates.  Driven through Prescott a few times... a Boom Town with a Forest.

No Tech.  Watch the numerous videos on the Internet. Great source of getting an.... education.  Many Good, some Not.

Prescott is in a wonderful location, as the Main Street is like entering  a mountain town in Colorado or Wyoming.  Everyone lives in the surrounding forests with some having that south view of unlimited views. We actually considered looking for a home there, but Boulder City is in an area much like Prescott, with major cities on the west side of the mountains from us.  Good pullout once south of town and down the mountain grade.  Remembered that...

I rechecked the Extension Cord wire and it is more in the 16 gauge wire once stripped.

No tech around here.  I resort to 'do it yourself' if nothing else is available. Local service had three months booked.  Yikes... lots of Travel Trailer problems for those owners.

This should not happen to anyone with an Oliver.  Rather blemishes my attitude that something that should be permanent from the Factory... should not have a problem.  You pay up front for. the quality and Brake Wiring is the... issue?

I had a multimeter years ago. Can describe the carton... looked for it... and not to be found.  It would have been 40 years old.  Great for Jukebox wiring from the 24 button select simple models looking for wire issues.  

We may be the only Oliver in Nevada.  Nothing to compare with.  Hundreds of Airstreams. We stopped at 2019 Models of Airstream and Oliver Elite II as the Propane, Solar, Electricity power options are excellent.  The Truma hot water tank was junk and unrepairable, after purchasing the Oliver.  Too many wires and coils.  I like simple systems.  Our Airstream's Dometic six gallon hot water was operating on the Airstream Dealer's Lot... and has not been used after the 2019 checking everything out before purchase.  Trusted the seller... my mistake.  For anyone buying used... DO NOT PURCHASE USED, UNLESS YOU TEST OUT EVERYTHING.  Trusting the Seller may not be the best way to go.

Beautiful trailer and I will have this all worked out.  Will eventually  sell,  with the Truma not installed, as I removed the trashed by some service business.  I had the Recall Notice, but I did not... qualify, as I pulled it apart and it was NOT REPAIRABLE.  Had the uncrimped burner issue.  I was not even offered the 'improved burner' as I tried to repair it,.. myself.

I wander. Love the Oliver Elite II  and our 27 foot  Airstream, both are perfect 2019's for Boondocking.  Both have a purpose for Boondocking locations.  Narrow and clearance is excellent on Olivers.  Advice at a RV Service is.... ZERO.  No Oliver around Nevada to compare... with. Geologists... experience risks whenever out in the... bush. But the trailer should not be the... problem.

 Sorry for the diatribe... Ahhhh.

Edited 8 hours ago by BoondockingAirstream

[Geronimo John]

Glad you are making progress on the brake issue.  Also glad you were not injured in doing so.

As shown in your picture, you chose not to use your on-board jacks as safety fail safes.  Yes they can get in the way, but having them down can save your life. 

GJ

 

[BoondockingAirstream]

The On Board Jacks are for those who walk inside the Oliver when parked, and are sensitive to the movement once parked and inside.  NOT FOR SUPPORTING WEIGHT OF THE OLVIER.  We have never used them.  We are not... a Prince and Princess.  Myself, an OLD guy, with attitude,...  and lots of previous experience doing dumb stuff when a teenager..

This is an Oliver Elite II with four wheels.  The Oliver with one axle WOULD BE A DIFFERENT  and you would be 100% correct.  Just not this time.

JACK POINT decal behind back axle tires.  Lifts one or both wheels off the Earth.

The hydraulic Jack was used to get the tire lifted, remove the lug nuts and remove the wheel and tire for easier access, and secure this point.  Nice hydraulic jack, as well.  Use it on the Airstream, as well, and... survived.  I do not eat Twinkie's, either as they have too much sugar.

There is a STICKER that says to USE THIS LOCATION TO LIFT THE TIRE OFF THE GROUND.

There were Three Wheels still attached and a hydraulic jack with lumber stabilizing it all.  When having to remove a flat tire, the same process would be used.  The Hydraulic Jack makes it simple and stable.  Would do the same with the F350 tires...  No magic here to be confused with this.  

Recall I use to do OSHA inspections.  Unless I have become senile... I should not be allowed to drive.

The Front Axle Tires were still mounted onto the Axle.  And chocked.... both sides.  No need to remove them.  The major wire issue all come together on the REAR Axle and through the center of the axle.

**********

Added:   Mike at Oliver Inc. agreed with my Wife with my process.  The Neanderthal is correct and a Human Bean is Wrong.  

Added:  I would appreciate HELP in finding the Ground or wire location from the 7 pin plug creating this short to the brakes.  Most likely wires attached to the street side of the Oliver.  This may have been a Factory Issue and not something that wore out or broke from use. This may have existed on DAY ONE... and I am Old and inherited this situation.

Trust me.  My Wife would  'kick my winky' IF I was doing something really Dumb. She is a Human Bean.  I learn by making mistakes... but not stupid ones.  🙂

(I EDIT AFTER I GET THE IDEA DOWN ON THE SCREEN.  I THINK FASTER THAN I CAN TYPE... SYNDROME.)

Edited 6 hours ago by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

Using the color illustration of the Legacy Elite II Trailer Harness Electrical... the only item up for discussion seems to be the 'Ground Bar'.  Is that the bar under the seat with a dozen or so wires?  None are labeled.  Lots of Yellow Wires.

Is this the source for the Brake Grounding attachment?

The Brakes have Power when the Break Away Switch is engaged.  They lock up immediately.  We spin each side and those passed the Rewire... just finished.

Someone may have some advice.  The connections all seem tight and secure.  It there another location once the power leaves the Ground Bar to Brakes?

13 Yellow wires & 4 White wires... from a quick glance.  All screws have a wire.  One has no screw, but looks threaded on the Right Side of the bar.

 There are 3 bundles? with the plastic around the wire(s) on the Right side.  I did not look if they had one or more wires... any suggestions?

The wiring diagram is missing all of this.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

At this point... I have run out of WIRES to investigate. Common Sense tells me this could be the Rosetta Stone.  If not, a truly Dead End... no Fairy to help after this.

(Got a second opinion with Wife, upside down, and noticed that it is attached to a long metal boxy 'container'.  Even with the Black and Blue wires... Our combined detective work:  Level Meter for one of the tanks: 'GREY' water tank.  Even with the wire colors... I am back where I started. )

Edited 1 hour ago by BoondockingAirstream
Not Associated with Brake Wiring

[BoondockingAirstream]

New 7 Pin Plug, wiring solid, no change.  Snug fit and everything worked, but back to hunting down a wire from... the Original Wire Bundle under the Street Side?