Water Pump Switch in Bathroom

[David and Gail]

We were on our first long trip consisting of 2 to 3 months in the Ollie ( mostly Boondocking) . We were about 2000 miles from home in Billings,Montana and had stopped in a parking lot for lunch. I went to wash my hands and the water pump wouldn’t work. I noticed when I put pressure on one side of the switch in the bathroom it would pulse on like a momentary switch. I removed the screws from the bathroom caddy and carefully scored the caulk. When I removed the caddy all the wires fell off the switch. I had no idea which color wire went where. After a call to Oliver and with their help and research I used a pair of pliers to gently tighten the wire connectors and pushed them back on the proper spade. The red wire attaches to the center spade on the right side and the grays on the outside spades. I have two pictures that show the switch. Hopefully this post will help someone who might experience the same problem. 

[Mike and Carol]

We’ve also had the wires come off of the water pump itself.  There are two red wires, I don’t think it matters which spade they’re attached to, it just took me a few minutes to find them!  Mike

[Rolind]

I had the same issue occur but was luckily able to wiggle the switch out wo removing the panel.  I also happened to the bathroom light switch. I was initially confused because the pump would only turn on with the switch outside the bathroom near the thermostat. 

[jd1923]

15 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

We’ve also had the wires come off of the water pump itself.  There are two red wires, I don’t think it matters which spade they’re attached to, it just took me a few minutes to find them!  Mike

It's odd but true that the simple OEM ShurFlo water pump has two RED wires (see pic1, look very closely) which means it would run in either polarity. When I upgraded our water pump it certainly had explicit RED/BLACK wiring designating DC polarity (see pic2).

The water pump switches are 3-way. You need to get the RED positive connected to the correct lead and the two other brown wires are grounds and perhaps the order of these two wires do not matter, but of course they must stay connected.

Perhaps on our hull we were lucky to have a past owner to correct these many issues, but in two years, we have not had a wire disconnect while traveling, never a window shade fall off, a kitchen drawer open, or anything else. Thank goodness our black and grey tanks drain without incidents... The Oliver is a robust campin' machine! 🤣

Edited August 29 by jd1923
Changed pic of OEM pump to show the 2 red wires.

[Snackchaser]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

the two other brown wires are grounds

This is a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) switch, and only one pole is being used (the right side as the photo shows.)  The left is identical in function.  Being a Double Throw, the centre tab is common, and it closes the circuit to the top tab when switched up, and to the bottom tab when switched down.

The red wire is the common, sometimes called the Point wire (either a hot or switch leg,) and the brown wires are often called travelers.  One or the other brown wires will become hot depending on switch position.  The switch on the other end is the same, so that either switch can energize or de-energize either brown wire and power the pump.  No ground wires are involved in these switches.

I provided a wiring sketch for these switches in a modification titled:  4-way pump switch for outdoor shower.  It shows the wiring diagram for the switches, and the addition a third (4-way) switch to turn the pump on/off from the outdoor shower.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/10604-4-way-pump-switch-for-outdoor-shower/

Hope that helps to clear up these confusing switches!  Cheers!  Geoff

[Geronimo John]

12 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

I don’t think it matters which spade they’re attached

Yes and no.  The travelers will turn on/off the pump regardless of which is attached to the switch outside terminals.  But they do make a difference.

 Many like having a circuit OFF when both switches are down.  If yours is this way, do nothing more. 

If the pump is off with one switch up and the other down, then reverse the two traveler wires and you will be happy.

Said differently, if the pump is on when the bath switch us down, reverse the travelers.

Hope this helps.

GJ 

[Dennis and Melissa]

Apparently this type of connector is vulnerable to road vibration???  I had a similar issue with one my jacks (it was a bugger getting my arm in there to reattach it)

[jd1923]

11 hours ago, Snackchaser said:

The red wire is the common, sometimes called the Point wire (either a hot or switch leg,) and the brown wires are often called travelers.  One or the other brown wires will become hot depending on switch position.  The switch on the other end is the same, so that either switch can energize or de-energize either brown wire and power the pump.  No ground wires are involved in these switches.

Thank you Geoff. This is so nicely and concisely stated, now easy to understand! 

So if I truly do understand, when ON one of the 3-way switches is supplying power to the pump, by connecting 'hot' to the 'traveler' and the pump is grounded independent of the 3-way switches.

[Snackchaser]

6 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

So if I truly do understand, when ON one of the 3-way switches is supplying power to the pump, by connecting 'hot' to the 'traveler' and the pump is grounded independent of the 3-way switches.

Thanks for the nice words JD!   Yes, one of the travelers is always hot, and the pump is grounded separately.  My referenced sketch shows standard 3-way wiring for simplicity, with the (+) on one end of the circuit, and the switch leg (feed to pump) on the other.  The Oliver is wired as a "dead end" 3-way switch, where both the hot (+) and the pump feed come to the main switch location, and bathroom is the dead end with the red point wire doubling back and being spliced to the pump feed at the main switch location.  

It doesn't matter how the travelers are connected, or if they are reversed.  One or the other, or both, switches will always be in the physical On or Off position with the pump running.

You may be curiously interested in how three or more switches (4-way switches) work in this 3-way circuit.  The travelers will switched to run straight through, or they will be switched to Criss Cross each other.  Clever!  This is also illustrated in my referenced sketch!

Cheers!  Geoff