Mods of The Outlaw Oliver

[Mainiac]

Curious what the inside opening of the hatch might be.

Would a piece of close cell foam glued to the inside of the compartment possibly prevent a star crack when changing tanks? It is closer now to the fiberglass.

 

[ScubaRx]

The dimensions of the opening for all of these hatches that I have used in the various places are 13.5" x 7.25"

[Overland]

Where do you buy them from?

 

Also - looking at your lamp on the nightstand - did you convert a lamp to 12 v or find one somewhere or does the inverter have to be running to use it?

[ScubaRx]

Where do you buy them from? Also – looking at your lamp on the nightstand – did you convert a lamp to 12 v or find one somewhere or does the inverter have to be running to use it?

 

The hatch frame and doors plus all the hardware came as a unit that I got from Oliver. It is the same cabinet door that is used in the bathroom of the Elite II.  They perfectly match all the other cabinet doors used by Oliver.

 

The lamp mod was done last summer. We found the lamp at a flea market in Muncie Indiana while visiting one of our daughters. I think we paid three dollars  for it. My original plan was to convert it to twelve volts and use an LED bulb.   Admittedly, I didn't look too hard but was unable to find an LED bulb that gave the ambience of the old incandescent bulb that was in the lamp when we got it.  I merely ran 110 V to the area between the top of the nightstand and the bottom of the window shade casing and just plugged the shortened cord in.  The lamp is held in place with four rare earth magnets sunk into the base that align with four more mounted under the top of the nightstand. It has never moved during our travels,  yet is easily removed if you have a need to take the top off the nightstand.  It is powered from the inverter  when we are not plugged up.  We only use it for looks. I did wrap and a set of LED lights around it for Christmas, however.

[Overland]

Good idea on the magnets.  I like that you numbered them.

[ScubaRx]

Well I finally bit the bullet and installed disc brakes on the Outlaw Oliver.  It was not a particularly hard task, not nearly so much as installing the Dexter EZ-Flex system.  The cost was just under $1300.  See the Oliver-Disc-Brakes-Chart.pdf for a complete break down of what I bought and where.

[rideandfly]

Well I finally bit the bullet and installed disc brakes on the Outlaw Oliver. It was not a particularly hard task, not nearly so much as installing the Dexter EZ-Flex system. The cost was just under $1300. See the Oliver-Disc-Brakes-Chart for a complete break down of what I bought and where.

 

 

Steve,

 

Excellent installation and photos. Like the parts list breakdown, too.

 

 

[Overland]

Awesome. Oliver has agreed to install disk brakes on ours but I haven't heard back on what exactly they've priced. I sent them the links to the Kodiak/Hydrastar stuff but I think they may be trying to source everything from Dexter. I'd rather have the setup that you've installed.

 

Please let us know how it performs.

[John E Davies]

Awesome. Oliver has agreed to install disk brakes on ours but I haven’t heard back on what exactly they’ve priced. I sent them the links to the Kodiak/Hydrastar stuff but I think they may be trying to source everything from Dexter. I’d rather have the setup that you’ve installed. Please let us know how it performs.

It will be expensive, since the Oliver service shop will retrofit it. I got disillusioned by the prices I was quoted for simple mods. I decided to to all this stuff myself. They told me they would not do disc brakes, I wonder what changed?

 

I love the idea and think it should be STANDARD equipment on every one of these fine trailers. Drum brakes are so primitive, unreliable, and definitely a major PITA to maintain.

 

I would love to hear a road report on the brakes after some miles. Don't forget to include three year fluid changes into your service schedule....

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

Well I finally bit the bullet and installed disc brakes on the Outlaw Oliver. It was not a particularly hard task, not nearly so much as installing the Dexter EZ-Flex system. The cost was just under $1300. See the Oliver-Disc-Brakes-Chart for a complete break down of what I bought and where.

Love the installation, but tell me about your hose hanger. It is an elegant solution. What did you use for the eyelet fittings? Did you consider using conventional rubber strap exhaust hangers?

 

I really like your neat and tidy brake lines. Can you post a few more pics of the plumbing, and closeups of the installed actuator and brakes? You really should start a dedicated thread on this! It is so cool!

 

Thanks,

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Overland]

They're doing it all in service after the fact, so it's a retrofit, which is probably the difference. I agree that it should be standard or a standard option off the line - perhaps there's a certification process to go through to offer it as a line option. I believe they're standard on Airstreams now, but I could be wrong.

 

Their price was $375 over what Steve is paying for parts, which includes the over under kit. I could do it myself for less of course, but it's low enough that I don't mind letting them do the work. Certainly if someone didn't do the work themselves, they'd pay as much or more for the work at a shop.

 

Of course, that all depends on what they've priced, so we'll see. If they aren't using a decent actuator and brake kit, then I may end up doing it myself since it doesn't seem like it's difficult - especially now that Steve's been kind enough to give us a shopping list, lol. Above all else, I want quality components.

 

Steve, how did you decide on which finish to get? People seem to have good experience with the dacromet, but I was a little nervous about it since it's a sprayed on finish. With the nasty salts they're putting on the roads these days, I didn't know if I should spring for stainless, or if that's just overkill. I mean, my truck certainly isn't going to come with stainless calipers after all.

[Overland]

Steve, another question for you - can you run two brake lines from the Hydrastar actuator to the calipers or just one? I was thinking that if I did it myself that I would see if I could run two, for safety sake. One line to the front wheels and another to the rear.

 

Are you at all nervous about mounting the lines on the bottom of the frame?

[ScubaRx]

It does seem ironic that all of a sudden Oliver would be willing to install disc brakes instead of the supplied drum brakes.  It could be that I was at the factory this past Wednesday where John Oliver and Jason Essary took a close look at my installation. They must have really gotten on the stick about sourcing parts and deciding on labor.  I chose the Kodiak brand of calipers and rotors because that seems to be the industry standard. I suspect that Oliver would prefer to buy their Dexter axles already outfitted with disc rotors. I don't think that is a problem. I would, however insist on the Carlisle Hydrastar HBA-16 actuator  and the accompanying HBA-CAM.  This last piece  of equipment is only necessary if you have a late-model General Motors, Ford or Dodge pick up. It allows the in cab controller to work with the Hydrastar actuator. The reason I recommend installing it no matter what is that it will allow your trailer to be protected against the future should you change brands of tow vehicle. It would be, however easy to add in the future if you so chose to wait.  I went with the Dacromet coating because I  determined from my research that it apparently represents the best value for dollar spent. Of course, stainless steel would be much better but the price was more than twice as much.  Plus, as you pointed out, your tow vehicle will not be equipped with nearly as nice of equipment.  I mounted the actuator in the front propane compartment just forward of the propane tanks. It fits nicely in this area. It allows easy access for adding brake fluid. If there is a drawback to mounting in this  location it would be the distance from the brakes themselves. From what I read the closer it is to the brakes the faster the response time. My entire usage so far  is a trip to the factory and back. For me that is about 250 miles round-trip. I found them to be much more  sensitive than the drums.  For anyone who would like to address specific questions you may feel free to call me anytime at 662-255-0181.

[Overland]

Thanks Steve. They actually told me a month ago that they'd be willing to do the brakes, so they may have been looking at yours for pointers on the install, lol. Either way, I'm glad that you showed it to them.

 

Your install looks really nice and clean.

[ScubaRx]

They’re doing it all in service after the fact, so it’s a retrofit, which is probably the difference. I agree that it should be standard or a standard option off the line – perhaps there’s a certification process to go through to offer it as a line option. I believe they’re standard on Airstreams now, but I could be wrong. Their price was $375 over what Steve is paying for parts, which includes the over under kit. I could do it myself for less of course, but it’s low enough that I don’t mind letting them do the work. Certainly if someone didn’t do the work themselves, they’d pay as much or more for the work at a shop. Of course, that all depends on what they’ve priced, so we’ll see. If they aren’t using a decent actuator and brake kit, then I may end up doing it myself since it doesn’t seem like it’s difficult – especially now that Steve’s been kind enough to give us a shopping list, lol. Above all else, I want quality components. Steve, how did you decide on which finish to get? People seem to have good experience with the dacromet, but I was a little nervous about it since it’s a sprayed on finish. With the nasty salts they’re putting on the roads these days, I didn’t know if I should spring for stainless, or if that’s just overkill. I mean, my truck certainly isn’t going to come with stainless calipers after all.

 

If they're willing to do it for $375.00, jump on it. The company I spoke with in Weatherford, TX gets $2900.00 for the install. Of course this includes the equipment and installation all done in one day. For something I could do myself, I thought that was a little steep plus I would have to drive to Texas. For $375.00, that's a hell of a deal. I'm just way too particular (and cheap) to let just anybody touch my trailer. Justin Reeves at the factory is another story. That guy is a meticulous gifted craftsman that I can recommend without reservation.

[ScubaRx]

...Love the installation, but tell me about your hose hanger. It is an elegant solution. What did you use for the eyelet fittings? Did you consider using conventional rubber strap exhaust hangers? I really like your neat and tidy brake lines...

 

John, thanks for the kind words.

 

I did consider something commercially available but I needed something the next morning and I made them up from stuff in the shop. The hangers were made about midnight one evening in a fit of desperation and inspiration.  They consist of a short piece of vinyl covered cable, some #8 washers, a couple of ring tongue electric crimp connectors, some of these (opened up and re-bent to conform to the diameter of the brake hose), a pop rivet and a sheet metal screw.  My advice is to make these up on the bench rather than under the trailer at the time of installation...trust me. Despite what it looks like, the hose is hanging straight below the attachment point.

 

[ScubaRx]

Update on Disc Brakes:

 

It has now been more than 7 months since my install.  We have pulled the OO-II about 13000 miles since then.  From here to northern Washington and from here to extreme eastern Tennessee and a couple of trips back and forth to the factory with two different tow vehicles.  The brakes have performed flawlessly.  I did have to adjust the on board brake controller down a couple of points to keep them from locking up all four wheels at one time.  I have crawled under it several times to make sure there were no fluid leaks.  I had a problem at the initial install with a fitting leaking and it took replacing the fitting to get it to stop.  Apparently, it was defective from the factory but it made me a little gun-shy about leaks.  Not a drop since. I am happy with them.

 

 

[Overland]

I'm glad that yours are working.  Mine are not.  Oliver's insistence on using the Dexter kit was a small disaster, I think.  I would recommend that anyone wishing to have disc brakes do the install themselves, or use a third party, using the same equipment as Steve.

[John E Davies]

"Thank you for your interest in our braking systems. According to Dexter you have 6 Lug 3,500# axles with 1/2 wheel studs. Currently there is no disc brake available to fit your application. Converting to disc brakes would involve upgrading your axles to 5,200 or 6,000# axles. Please give me a call if you would like to proceed."

 

This is from StopYourTrailer.com Am I screwed? What did those of you do, switch to a 5200 lb axle set?

 

I would not have ANY problem adding two heavier axles with idler hubs, then I could use the slip-on discs instead of the ones with integrated hubs. But it would be an extra pain and also maybe $550 extra expense with shipping. With idler hubs, I could carry a complete hub with bearings, ready to go, and swap out one with a failed bearing in 30 minutes by the side of the road. That is pretty cool.

 

https://www.southwestwheel.com/p-2303-5200-lb-standard-spring-dexter-trailer-axle.aspx

 

Does OTT supply straight or arched axle tubes? I do think it is hard on customers to have a special order axle set on their trailers. I would much rather have an off-the-shelf 5200 pound set that is stronger, with the 3500 pound springs.

 

Can anyone supply the 0em specs?

 

[attachment file=41Rnrrj7c+L.jpg]

 

Comments please!

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Overland]

Why Dexter? The Kodiak brakes are better and will work with your axles. Oliver gave me 5k axles so that they could use the Dexter brakes but imo it’s unnecessary unsprung weight and wish I had the lighter ones.

[JMSpoff]

Do you happen to know the part number/model number of the Kodiak brakes that will work with a 2017 Elite II?

[Overland]

Check Steve’s (scubarx) post one page back - he has everything listed in a pdf.

[JMSpoff]

Duh...thanks :)

[John E Davies]

Why Dexter? The Kodiak brakes are better and will work with your axles. Oliver gave me 5k axles so that they could use the Dexter brakes but imo it’s unnecessary unsprung weight and wish I had the lighter ones.

 

I have not seen a Kodiak kit that will go on a small spindle with four hole backing plate, with a 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern ...

 

https://www.kodiaktrailer.com/product-category/3500-lbs-axle/3500-lb-axle-10-brake-sets/

 

I don't want the expense of heavier axles, I would much rather just keep the 3500 axles and add discs. I do not want a Dexter brake system. Having a hybrid (actually a bastard) axle system utilizing special components derived from two different axle systems is stupid as can be. Why did OTT choose to do this? Did they get a special group buy on six hole wheels? I simply do not understand the logic of bolting heavy duty wheels onto light duty spindles and bearings....

 

It's frustrating.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

Check Steve’s (scubarx) post one page back – he has everything listed in a pdf.

 

The brakes he used are for a heavy axle. If he would post some close-up pics I could tell a little better ;( ....his description is: "Kodiac 12" Trailer Disc Brake assy, Dacromet #1HRCM12 DACKIT" which is this 5200 brake: ... https://www.kodiaktrailer.com/product/1hrcm-12-dac-kit/

 

5200 pound version, 12 inch rotors:

 

 

3500 pound version, 10 inch rotors:

 

 

Its a little deceptive because they are not to scale ... notice the 5200 has a five hole mounting plate, and hubs with 6 on 5.5 studs, which is fine for our wheels, but it won't work on a 3500 pound axle (four hole backing plate and smaller bearings). The heavy axle uses a #42 spindle (2.25" OD) and the 3500 uses a #84 spindle (1.75" OD).

 

A 5200 axle is heavier but has WAY stronger spindle and bearings. I would not mind that at all. Oversized 12 inch rotors and bigger pads run cool and will last forever on a 6000 pound trailer. As you commented, the downside is more unsprung weight. How important is that on a travel trailer? Rough roads?

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA