Winter Conditions

[markaday]

Hello friends,

 

Quick question. If I am storing my Elite II for several days in below freezing temps with water in the lines...can I utilize Truma's electrical insert accessory [it goes where the filter normally resides in the tankless unit]; power up the unit inside and out; set it to 'comfort' mode to keep the water circulating/hot above freezing - all while leaving the propane and main heater in the 'off' position? I am guessing this is how i would travel in 'winter' conditions, as well...correct?

 

Would love to hear your thoughts.

 

Thanks!

[John E Davies]

I won’t comment on the Truma since I know very little about it. However, I caution you to not rely on just one electrical source of heat, no matter what it is. If the shore power fails for any reason, your trailer will freeze. Also the small amount of waste heat that radiates from recirculating hot water lines is not nearly enough to heat the full fresh tank, the cold water lines and the standard toilet, you need lots more BTUs.

 

We have discussed this many times, if you haven’t done a full winterization, you need two independent (and adequate) heat sources in case the primary one quits. You could try what you suggest, but leave the gas turned on and the furnace at a low setting, in case the water heater is inadequate or stops running. The problem with this scenario is that if the shore power fails, you will run down the batteries fairly quickly, unless the trailer is out in the sun with solar panels... It might be prudent to at least blow air through all the outside water ports and the outside shower, to limit the chance of one near the hull freezing.... and some sort of remote temperature alarm would let you sleep better, since you could keep a close watch on the inside temp and take action if it drops too low.

 

BTW, you have not filled out your profile or signature,  please do so we know more about you.  Are you being affected by the Bomb Cyclone? Be safe.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Overland]

Unfortunately, what you're suggesting won't work.

 

The electric antifreeze kit is only designed to protect the unit itself from freezing. You use a separate mode to turn it on and it doesn't work in the other modes (comfort or eco). If you select either of those modes then the unit will try to fire up, and unless you have the propane on it will give you an error.

 

And unless you have the comfort plus, the unit can only circulate water within itself, not the water lines.

 

In fact, even if you did have the comfort plus (I think only two Elite IIs have it) then you'd still only be protecting the hot water lines and not the cold lines or the faucets.

[WhatDa]

Overland is right. If you had another heat source (like maybe the furnace) to keep everything else from freezing, you could use the truma insert to keep truma itself from freezing while on the go. Winterizing the Oliver is pretty painless - especially with the truma (just make sure it's cold and depressurized first), we did it several times on our cross country trip including a nice blizzard in SD.

[WhatDa]

With regard to the comfort plus - who got those installed? I wanted one badly, and was told no. Part of the "WD" edition Oliver would be a the comfort plus, with the cold and warm lines being wrapped in insulation so the warm recirculation would keep the cold from freezing. I believe that's what ARV does on their Sprinters. That, and saving the gray tank waiting for hot water.

[Overland]

Mine and I was told one other that came off the line alongside. It was an experiment to see how much trouble the extra plumbing would be.

[WhatDa]

Mine and I was told one other that came off the line alongside. It was an experiment to see how much trouble the extra plumbing would be.

 

 

So I have you to thank :)

[markaday]

John, Overland, and Whatda -

 

THANK YOU for this great information.   Best I can tell I had ALL this going in the wrong direction!  First...you are correct that the Truma does not circulate the entire hot water line...only at the outlet.  That would have been my first problem.  Next would have been the fact that my cold water would all freeze :).  Beyond that...another huge point would be to always ensure a backup to the power.  ALL very good points.  You can tell I'm a rookie, but trying to learn quickly!

 

John - I will try to update my profile and signature.  Before responding to this I quickly looked to see what i could update and did not readily see an area for that, but will get back into it and fill it all out completely.

 

Seems like the best thing to do is winterize...over and over if necessary if I plan to use the unit throughout the winter intermittently, and then store outside again [with no consistent power].  Was hoping to avoid that but doesn't sound like it's a big deal.

 

Thanks again!

[Raspy]

I, sort of accidentally, left my Oliver out in freezing weather while we were away for a few days.

 

It froze the cold valve on the bathroom sink, and it froze the toilet fresh water valve that the foot pedal operates.

 

The bath sink faucet cracked the ceramic insert, and the toilet valve split open.

 

It seems like the water inlet fitting would be the most vulnerable, or the outdoor shower assembly, but the breaks both happened inside the trailer.

 

Afterward, I wished there were valves on the bathroom lines so that one could isolate that area while out on the road if needed. Once anything goes wrong, the whole system must be shut down. When I put in the new kitchen faucet, I did install shutoffs on the two lines. And an added benefit to this it allows you to backlash the faucet if needed. Mine gathered a bunch of debris from somewhere and I was able to blow it out with system pressure flowing backward.

 

 

[GraniteStaters]

We have a NH toilet, so I have been thinking about using the water fitting in there to be able to purge the water supply with compressed air.  I believe there is a valve below the right dinette seat that I would also need to open too.  This would be helpful when traveling in winter conditions between camping sites.  I do understand that I would need to still bypass and drain the Truma or install the Truma heater to prevent damage.  

[John E Davies]

48 minutes ago, GraniteStaters said:

We have a NH toilet, so I have been thinking about using the water fitting in there to be able to purge the water supply with compressed air.  I believe there is a valve below the right dinette seat that I would also need to open too.  This would be helpful when traveling in winter conditions between camping sites.  I do understand that I would need to still bypass and drain the Truma or install the Truma heater to prevent damage.  

You can’t purge the water system using that toilet fitting, not completely anyway. There are check valves in the outside lines that will prevent any flow except inward. You could blow out the inside faucets, outside shower and some of the lines, but the water that will definitely be trapped will be in the most vulnerable locations, close to the outside of the hull.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[GraniteStaters]

Thanks, John for the feedback.  I see your point about the outside connections not being able to be blown out with compressed air from the inside fittings.

 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 10/18/2019 at 12:39 AM, Overland said:

Mine and I was told one other that came off the line alongside. It was an experiment to see how much trouble the extra plumbing would be.

So, do we know if Oliver has decided whether to offer the Comfort Plus in the future?

[Overland]

Doesn't seem like it, but the more people who ask, the greater the chance.  Oliver moves slowly - they talked about Lithium for three years before offering it.  

I think that the main issue with Oliver and the comfort plus is in managing the production line.  The regular Truma and the tank have the same plumbing, but if they switch to the comfort plus, then they have a plumbing change to manage.  Seems like a small thing, and it probably would be if it were the only option; but in the larger picture things get complicated.  

I suspect that Oliver limits their options to things that can be easily fitted or fixed after the hulls are together.  You don't want to figure out after that point that you've got the wrong plumbing in a trailer, or someone cut the wrong hole for the fridge.  

Edited June 8, 2020 by Overland