Fridge Fires??? Fridge Defend by ARP ???

[Jim and Frances]

I just happened to stumble upon this...was not aware of fridge fires?

https://www.arprv.com/products.php#why-arp

Anyone have any experience/info on this system?

[C&MCurrie]

I installed the system last year as an extra measure of safety. Added benefit are the 2 fans that come with it , one mounted in  upper and lower outside vents. I opted for 2 additional interior fans that help keep internal temperature uniform. So far, so good. Fridge has operated flawlessly even in very hot weather. 

[hobo]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:17 PM, C&MCurrie said:

I installed the system last year as an extra measure of safety. Added benefit are the 2 fans that come with it , one mounted in  upper and lower outside vents. I opted for 2 additional interior fans that help keep internal temperature uniform. So far, so good. Fridge has operated flawlessly even in very hot weather. 

Did you do the install yourself?  Otherwise, how difficult is the installation process?

[John E Davies]

I would really like to see some Oliver specific installation pics! Where did you attach the fans? I have always been worried about fire, it is more common when hooked up to 120 VAC, so I rarely use it for fridge operation. Even when plugged into shore power. But I worry, anyway.

The fridge manual says it should be thoroughly inspected professionally ANNUALLY, which obviously nobody does. Especially since that requires its complete removal (most of the critical parts are completely inaccessible from the outside of the hull). I would love a compressor fridge but would l hate the extreme power usage😤 and I would also have to add another lithium battery to my two Battle Borns. OTH if there are a bunch more fans running with this mod, that is going to use more watts😳.

I would think better of the Fridge Defend site if their grammar and spelling were not so bad, and if it did not seem so over-the-top “the sky is falling” in regard to fires. Thanks for more info on your Ollie mod. I would love some details.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[C&MCurrie]

Installation was easy. Hardest part was deciding where and how to mount vent fans. Used double sided VHB tape along with a long screw for added support on the upper fan and zip tied lower fan on vent panel. Would liked to have centered lower fan left to right but space constraints dictated mounting to the left. 

[Sak]

5 hours ago, C&MCurrie said:

Installation was easy. Hardest part was deciding where and how to mount vent fans. Used double sided VHB tape along with a long screw for added support on the upper fan and zip tied lower fan on vent panel. Would liked to have centered lower fan left to right but space constraints dictated mounting to the left.

Thanks for the pictures. A couple of follow up questions.

1. Are these fan weather proofed and safe to use when it's raining or towing while raining?
2. How did you get 12V to the upper fan?

Updated: I found some answers from ARP website but couldn't find whether the fans are weather proofed.

[hobo]

Would also like to know whether you notice the fans (noise) when you're sitting outside under the awning?  

[hobo]

21 hours ago, C&MCurrie said:

Installation was easy. Hardest part was deciding where and how to mount vent fans. Used double sided VHB tape along with a long screw for added support on the upper fan and zip tied lower fan on vent panel. Would liked to have centered lower fan left to right but space constraints dictated mounting to the left. 

Where in the bottom pic is the location of the temperature sensor ?  Is it behind the shield on the right side?

[Sak]

After a quick research, I think ARP is great if you are using propane. It's not necessary, please correct me if I am wrong, if your fridge is using shore power or DC.

I am interested in this product but for ventilation propose. My Norcold doesn't work well if outside temperature is very high. After looking at pricing for ARP, I think I am going to try something else cheaper. Either Titan or Beech Lane cooling fan.

 

 

[C&MCurrie]

The fans are not weather proof as far as I know. However, I have not seen a significant amount of water entering through the frig vents while traveling in rainy weather. When washing the trailer I try to be careful with hose and not direct water upward into the vents. 
     When installing upper fan I used 20 gauge wire to extend the leads off the ARP module to the fan. 
     Yes, when sitting under the awning the fans can be heard occasionally. More so on very hot days. Not too annoying though. 
     There are 2 temperature sensors. One is mounted against one of the horizontal tubes that zig zag on rear of refrigerator and the other is behind the heat shield on I guess what you would call the boiler tube. The instructions are very specific where to mount probes on the tubes. Especially the boiler tube. 
    Have had the system for a year now with zero issues. After installation, there is nothing else that needs to be done. Comes on automatically when refrigerator is powered up. 

[hobo]

2 hours ago, Sak said:

After a quick research, I think ARP is great if you are using propane. It's not necessary, please correct me if I am wrong, if your fridge is using shore power or DC.

I am interested in this product but for ventilation propose. My Norcold doesn't work well if outside temperature is very high. After looking at pricing for ARP, I think I am going to try something else cheaper. Either Titan or Beech Lane cooling fan.

 

 

I'd be interest in your research:  

It would seem to me (and I'm certainly no mechanical engineer) the function of the refrigeration process which causes heat to build up in the refrigerant during the cooling process , occurs regardless of which energy source you're using to drive it. (otherwise, no cold air). The ARP product apparently protects the system by shutting it down before it gets to a critical temperature which will cause catastrophic  damage to the hardware. Most issues apparently are caused by the gases and liquids within the system requiring the units to be fairly level so liquid levels can remain within operating design parameters. (This is my understanding anyway.)  

If there is something I'm missing, would love to learn more about it.

Thanks

 

 

[Sak]

6 minutes ago, hobo said:

I'd be interest in your research:  

It would seem to me (and I'm certainly no mechanical engineer) the function of the refrigeration process which causes heat to build up in the refrigerant during the cooling process , occurs regardless of which energy source you're using to drive it. (otherwise, no cold air). The ARP product apparently protects the system by shutting it down before it gets to a critical temperature which will cause catastrophic  damage to the hardware. Most issues apparently are caused by the gases and liquids within the system requiring the units to be fairly level so liquid levels can remain within operating design parameters. (This is my understanding anyway.)  

If there is something I'm missing, would love to learn more about it.

Thanks

Your understanding makes sense. My so called "research" was just reading through a bunch of ARP discussion over various internet forums 😆 as I was having a hard time navigating through poorly design ARP website.

[C&MCurrie]

You’re exactly right. Doesn’t matter what heat source is selected. Protects system when past the absorption refrigerator level requirements. Again, I installed it for peace of mind extra level of safety. Worth the cost in my opinion. If, in the future, when the frig needs replacement, I’ll will suck it up and pay for a 12v compressor refrigerator. Apparently with the Elite I, the shower wall has to be removed in order to remove and replace refrigerator. I’ll happily pay Oliver to do it. Not something I want to attempt myself. 

[SeaDawg]

There are 12v fridges that fit through the door and space. We did our own install, @C&MCurrie. Quite true, the space limitation is between the shower wall and the cutting board ledge, in the 2008 Elite. 

Hardest part was removing the old Dometic. That had to come out in pieces. The Dometic cooling unit is huge, compared to the tiny danfoss 12v compressor.  We gained .5 cubic ft or so of fridge space, and a drawer beneath the fridge. (We also lost freezer space, but that's ok with me.)

[John E Davies]

I ordered a full kit just now. I am having no luck downloading the installation manual. Could someone here try it?

https://www.arprv.com/arp-manual.php#arpmanuals

Could someone here message me and include a copy of theirs? I did email the seller about this issue. Here is a GREAT video showing what is going on inside the boiler, and why it will fail if overheated too many times. I knew in theory what is happening, but the details were nowhere in my mind... here is a screen capture, the link is below the pic:

https://www.arprv.com/video/dometic-and-norcold-agree/Why-dometic-and-norcold-fridge-fail-web.m4v

I am not happy with the idea of leaving the control/ display box outside, maybe it could go in the overhead cabinet directly above the microwave?

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Sak]

2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I am having no luck downloading the installation manual. Could someone here try it?

Here you go.

General_Install_Guide_v5.x.pdf

ARP_User-Guide_v5.x.pdf

Troubleshooting_Guide_v5.x.pdf

Ancillary_Graphical_User_Instructions_v5.x.pdf

2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I am not happy with the idea of leaving the control/ display box outside, maybe it could go in the overhead cabinet directly above the microwave?

I like this idea. Please keep us posted if you end up doing this.

Did you purchase a kit with defrost blowers as well?

[hobo]

13 hours ago, C&MCurrie said:

The fans are not weather proof as far as I know. However, I have not seen a significant amount of water entering through the frig vents while traveling in rainy weather. When washing the trailer I try to be careful with hose and not direct water upward into the vents. 
     When installing upper fan I used 20 gauge wire to extend the leads off the ARP module to the fan. 
     Yes, when sitting under the awning the fans can be heard occasionally. More so on very hot days. Not too annoying though. 
     There are 2 temperature sensors. One is mounted against one of the horizontal tubes that zig zag on rear of refrigerator and the other is behind the heat shield on I guess what you would call the boiler tube. The instructions are very specific where to mount probes on the tubes. Especially the boiler tube. 
    Have had the system for a year now with zero issues. After installation, there is nothing else that needs to be done. Comes on automatically when refrigerator is powered up. 

Just for clarification:  You say "One is mounted on the horizontal tubes that zig zag on the rear of the refrigerator..."  Does this mean I have to access the refrigerator from the inside of the trailer or is everything done from the outside?  Sorry if I misunderstood your directions.

[hobo]

John,  Following your findings and installation as well.  Very interested in this product but your insight will be particularly helpful as you are the latest test case and you'll certainly find "better" ways to do it.  That's just the "John Davies" touch we've come to expect.

[C&MCurrie]

Everything is done from the outside unless you opt for the defrost/air circulation fans mounted inside the refrigerator on the ceiling. 

[John E Davies]

Thanks for the manuals, I figured out why I could not download them, you have to type YES in the "I agree to terms" box. I was just clicking it. I have to say their web design is very old fashioned and beyond horrible. Way too many "click here for more info" links, stuff is scattered to hell and back, and far too many colors - colored fonts, colored diagram wires, yellow highlights, purple comments, blue subtitles. Yikes. What if a buyer is color blind? Or wants a hard paper copy of the wiring made from a black and white printer? Too bad I guess. Maybe I will have Staples print them in color for my records. The technical content is extremely detailed and seems to be very complete, that is a big plus.... if you can find it.

The inside circulating fans - how are they powered, do you have to drill a hole through the back and feed their wires there? Thanks.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Sak]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

The inside circulating fans - how are they powered, do you have to drill a hole through the back and feed their wires there? Thanks.

Based on https://www.arprv.com/rv-fix-fridge-circulation-fan.php

Quote

Wire the blower by grounding it to the fridge internal light. Do not ground the blower to the cooling fins, this will result in corrosion of the cooling unit and premature failure. The power wire is run out the back of the fridge through the drip tube and attached to the Fridge Defend Fan Controller blue wire.

I don't even know if my Norcold has a drip tube, will need to double check later.

[SeaDawg]

My old norcold (2008) had one.

All our dometics had one. 

Check your manual. Most 3ways have a drip tube.

My compressor fridge does not have one. It has a drip tray, that needs to be occasionally emptied.

[NCeagle]

I just installed the full kit with the 4 additional fans.  Glad I did as the fans seem to have an immediate positive impact on efficiency on hot days even though Oliver had already installed one fan within the vents.  Based on some initial tests, I'm pretty sure the ROI is pretty good for this device on efficiency improvements alone.

The installation on our Norcold 4000 was pretty straight forward but tedious with all the small wiring required for the full kit with fans.  Fortunately I did not have to remove the fridge to get the sensor on the boiler tube.  I also had an easily accessible drip tube to run the interior fan wires.  It took me 12 hours start to finish (4 hours per day for 3 days).  That includes the research, planning, getting the electrical components needed and the installation, testing and configuration.  Of course, knowing what I know now, I could install another one on the same model in a couple hours max.  🙂

Here's a few pictures - not a lot of detail as online manuals and videos are really good - and each fridge is going to be different wire colors, etc.  I mounted the external fans pretty much exactly like @C&MCurrie, so not going to duplicate those.  Happy to answer questions though!

Here's where I put the boiler tube sensor:

 And here's a picture of the two little fans I installed on the roof of the fridge:

What it looks like after the install:

[John E Davies]

My Dometic has to come completely out, there is no way to reach the burner area, unless I cut a big hole in the hull. The lower access hatch is half the height of yours 😤😤😤😤😤 I am waiting until late Fall, in case something bad happens. A replacement fridge is an 8 week special order😳 I do not want to risk wrecking my camping season.

I am not sure the lower fan will fit, clearance is so tight…

John Davies

Spokane WA

[NCeagle]

John, that really stinks that you have to remove the fridge - I would have just done the fans for that benefit and waited (for a required maintenance or something) to connect the boiler sensor if I would have had to remove mine.  I'm camping in some really hot conditions though, so if you are not you may not get as much benefit from the fans as I'm seeing.  Worth considering though?