Linthonics

[MnG KY]

Are our 3 batteries parallel or series?

[BBL]

If you have 12 volt batteries, they are in parallel. How many do yo have and what kind?

Brian

[MnG KY]

3 Lithioncs lithium 

[SeaDawg]

Lithionics are 12v., so certainly parallel. Parallel adds up the storage capacity (amp hours) , serial adds voltage (as in golf cart 6v batteries, wired first in pairs in series, then parallel with two pair .) All our systems are 12v in the Ollie, so that's the voltage goal.

Glad you are trying to learn your system. 

Any other questions?

 

 

[MnG KY]

3 Lithioncs lithium 

Seems that only one battery gets all the action. We just started watching them on the app. We ran the one down to 21, then went on generator mode, it came back up to 99 but the other two stayed at 79 and 81. Thought they all would recharge.

[DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI]

 

I had a similar question posted earlier. I found the same behavior - one battery (the on closest to the inverter) draws down more quickly than others. I thought the BMS systems would balance during discharge but apparently not. Balancing only occurs at nearly 100% SOC according to others on the forum and Lithionics manual.

[SeaDawg]

@MnG KY, you might find this post from Jason in Service helpful, too. 

If following the procedures he outlines doesn't solve your problem,  please open a service ticket. 

Best of luck.

[MnG KY]

3 Lithioncs lithium 

Seems that only one battery gets all the action. We just started watching them on the app. We ran the one down to 21, then went on generator mode, it came back up to 99 but the other two stayed at 79 and 81. Thought they all would recharge.

[MnG KY]

Our second and third batteries Never change.  Can someone give a simple answer as to what I have to do for the second and third batteries to receive charge?

[SeaDawg]

Are the second and third battery turned on?

No changes,  to me,,would indicate offline, either by switch, or wiring.

Have you ever run the batteries to 100 per cent charge?

[MnG KY]

All 3 batteries are ON. Since they are all tied together, I assumed when the fist one got to 100 the next would charge to 100 and then the third. Guess I need to run the first one all the way down to see what happens. It's not a big deal I guess, but we spent a lot of mo ey for this option, seems it should operate pretty simply. Wish someone would come in that has the same.

[Katjo]

Give Lithionics a call, they are very nice (great customer service) and extremely helpful! 

[DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI]

I had a similar problem with only two of my batteries charging. The blue power light should blink if they are charging. For me the solution was to return the battery to Lithionics and they recalibrated the BMS. Lithionics was very responsive. They sent shipping box and I had the recalibrated battery back in a little over a week.

[Rivernerd]

2 hours ago, DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI said:

I had a similar problem with only two of my batteries charging. The blue power light should blink if they are charging. For me the solution was to return the battery to Lithionics and they recalibrated the BMS. Lithionics was very responsive. They sent shipping box and I had the recalibrated battery back in a little over a week.

While I laud Lithionics customer service response, I presume there is no way for a user to recalibrate the BMS, even with the app?

[SeaDawg]

George, I've  been pondering your issues today, and I am wondering if all of this may be related back to the problem you had back in July when your batteries were all  at zero, and you only had shore power. We never did hear why the batteries didn't charge on shore power. Just assumed you had turned them off accidentally.  Now, I think you probably ran the batteries to "zero" at some point previously, and the bms turned them off to keep the small reserve and save your batteries from harm.

At this point, I'm "guessing", and you will probably know, that your batteries have not all three ever been brought back to 100 per cent since then, so you could have a couple issues. 

First, your state of charge likely won't show accurately until all three batteries have attained 100 per cent, and the monitoring system  "resets." (This isn't just lithionics. It's pretty much all lithium systems that I've used or read about.)

The second is, every big lithium battery is a whole bunch of smaller cells, making up a bigger capacity battery. Those cells can vary slightly,  and won't rebalance till the battery has reached 100 per cent, and stayed there for awhile.  Til then you won't get full battery capacity. If you have a bad cell, you never will, but you're under warranty...

An acquaintance with victron had to charge each battery separately, for example,  to rebalance after running to zero, as I recall, but that's different gear, and I  wouldn't recommend it for your system without speaking to Oliver first, and then Lithionics if you are referred there. Every manufacturer has particular practices that they recommend,  based on their design and chemistry.

I'm wondering also if your charging profile is set correctly. Balancing only happens in absorption, I think, for most. Perhaps that threshold isn't high enough on your xantrex. Ask Jason to run through the settings with you. 

I know this has been frustrating for you. At this point, I'd open a service ticket, talk through everything with Jason, (including your past issues) and hopefully it's just something small-- like changing a setting,  or leaving the trailer plugged in and charging long enough without other loads like ac,  to get accurate per centage of charge readings.

It's important to remember  that lithiums don't behave like lead acid or even flashlight batteries, where voltage tells the story, and lights dim, etc., as stored amp hours run down, but the flashlight or overhead lights still work, just dim. With lithium, it's pretty much linear. Everything works at the same voltage, but when you're out of stored energy, it drops off a cliff, and you have nothing, and the bms shuts you down, which may be what happened to you in July. So a voltage reading from lithiums tells you pretty much nothing, til they're depleted. (Although lithionics, I'm certain,  retains a small per centage in the battery, but shows zero, and shuts down. All the majors do.) The bms depends on algorithms and power in/power out to give you state of charge readings. 

Hang in there. You and Jason will get it straight, I'm sure, so that you can enjoy your lithium system as you should.

Best of luck.

[Hokieman]

 

2 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

First, your state of charge likely won't show accurately until all three batteries have attained 100 per cent, and the monitoring system  "resets."

Following is from Lithionics FAQ that Seadawg sent yesterday.   It confirms her statements above. 

“-Explanation: *every two weeks, a full charge cycle in which the battery reaches 14.4 volts is required to trigger a recalibration of the internal Hall Effect Sensor shunt. When the battery exceeds 14.2 volts during charging, the SoC re-sets to 100%. (In order to fully charge a lithium ion battery, the DC loads may need to be reduced so the charge current exceeds the discharge current to allow a full battery charge.)”

[MnG KY]

On 9/16/2022 at 2:43 PM, SeaDawg said:

George, I've  been pondering your issues today, and I am wondering if all of this may be related back to the problem you had back in July when your batteries were all  at zero, and you only had shore power. We never did hear why the batteries didn't charge on shore power. Just assumed you had turned them off accidentally.  Now, I think you probably ran the batteries to "zero" at some point previously, and the bms turned them off to keep the small reserve and save your batteries from harm.

At this point, I'm "guessing", and you will probably know, that your batteries have not all three ever been brought back to 100 per cent since then, so you could have a couple issues. 

First, your state of charge likely won't show accurately until all three batteries have attained 100 per cent, and the monitoring system  "resets." (This isn't just lithionics. It's pretty much all lithium systems that I've used or read about.)

The second is, every big lithium battery is a whole bunch of smaller cells, making up a bigger capacity battery. Those cells can vary slightly,  and won't rebalance till the battery has reached 100 per cent, and stayed there for awhile.  Til then you won't get full battery capacity. If you have a bad cell, you never will, but you're under warranty...

An acquaintance with victron had to charge each battery separately, for example,  to rebalance after running to zero, as I recall, but that's different gear, and I  wouldn't recommend it for your system without speaking to Oliver first, and then Lithionics if you are referred there. Every manufacturer has particular practices that they recommend,  based on their design and chemistry.

I'm wondering also if your charging profile is set correctly. Balancing only happens in absorption, I think, for most. Perhaps that threshold isn't high enough on your xantrex. Ask Jason to run through the settings with you. 

I know this has been frustrating for you. At this point, I'd open a service ticket, talk through everything with Jason, (including your past issues) and hopefully it's just something small-- like changing a setting,  or leaving the trailer plugged in and charging long enough without other loads like ac,  to get accurate per centage of charge readings.

It's important to remember  that lithiums don't behave like lead acid or even flashlight batteries, where voltage tells the story, and lights dim, etc., as stored amp hours run down, but the flashlight or overhead lights still work, just dim. With lithium, it's pretty much linear. Everything works at the same voltage, but when you're out of stored energy, it drops off a cliff, and you have nothing, and the bms shuts you down, which may be what happened to you in July. So a voltage reading from lithiums tells you pretty much nothing, til they're depleted. (Although lithionics, I'm certain,  retains a small per centage in the battery, but shows zero, and shuts down. All the majors do.) The bms depends on algorithms and power in/power out to give you state of charge readings. 

Hang in there. You and Jason will get it straight, I'm sure, so that you can enjoy your lithium system as you should.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the helpful message. We have been chatting with Jason and  Xantrex. We've run alot of test. Sent alot of data to Jason.

Where we stand now is Jason has been in touch with Lithionics and the 2 batteries that won't accept a charge or discharge are going back to Lithionics for some magic cure I don't understand. Jason has so patiently worked with us on this. We are now using one battery , shore power or generator until the "sick" batteries return. All's good and will get better AND we're learning SO much.

(Jason  and Oliver owners are the best!)

Melinda

 

[Stevon]

I have the same three batteries. One always seemed to never discharge or charge as fast as the other two. A physical check of my battery bank revealed the + connection on the offending battery was loose. I couldn’t tell by trying to wiggle it as the short cables are too stiff. But a wrench quickly found the issue. Since it’s been snugged up they all stay very close on charge/ discharge rates. 

[DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI]

On 9/16/2022 at 12:25 PM, Rivernerd said:

While I laud Lithionics customer service response, I presume there is no way for a user to recalibrate the BMS, even with the app?

Lithionics did tell me their Tech support could walk me through the recalibration process if needed again.

[DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI]

1 hour ago, Stevon said:

I have the same three batteries. One always seemed to never discharge or charge as fast as the other two. A physical check of my battery bank revealed the + connection on the offending battery was loose. I couldn’t tell by trying to wiggle it as the short cables are too stiff. But a wrench quickly found the issue. Since it’s been snugged up they all stay very close on charge/ discharge rates. 

What are recommended torque values for battery connections? I know I have seen a list on the forum for all torque values but could not find that thread in search.

[BBL]

4 hours ago, DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI said:

What are recommended torque values for battery connections? I know I have seen a list on the forum for all torque values but could not find that thread in search.

From the Lithionics Manual…

Brian

PS - it should be on the battery label as well.