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The Pines of Kabetogama! The other Oliver! Charlie 1607 2025 LEII 2021 Landcruiser 200

It has been a long time since I have been on the forum. We had 359, 2018, and went a lot of places, really enjoyed the experience but other life choices got in the way, and we let it go to some good folks that were sure to enjoy it. One of the key reasons for selling was the crowds that seemed to be everywhere we went. A few questions for the forum - has the crowding subsided at all, and Wow, the prices now - seems $100k is the entry price for a II, - do the newer owners feel the value is still there from a quality and feature standpoint. I'm really liking most of the changes - and am actually looking at the smaller Elite - but not sure the price differential is worth the downsizing Thanks for any feedback..

Yes, yes, yes. We have a composting toilet and actually carry 35 gallons of extra water. Preferred camping times are spring before school is out and fall after school is in session. We do about 7 trips per year now but are rarely out more than 5 nights. Short trips keep it simple.

First thing I would do is call up the new owners of hull #359 and get her back! A quick search on RV trader shows 7 Olivers for sale from $46.5K to $74K. Buy at the low range if you are the DIY type to have money left over for your upgrades. This was my plan and with a whole lot of work hull #113 is more capable than most of them out there. If you’re not the DIY type or not wanting to do the work to upgrade, RV labor cost a lot, and “professional installations” are rarely what they’re cracked up to be! 😉 If so, then get one at the high range in EC with options you could live with. Or just dive in and buy new! Yes, they’re now $100K min plus new vehicle sales taxes. I've fought to avoid crowds most of my life, being raised in Chicagoland when my heart was always in the mountains. I don't wait in lines, period. You won't find me at a theme park, my last stadium concert was back in the 80s, gave up on airports, I could go on and on! Prescott is the Yavapai County AZ seat. It’s the size of New Jersey in area with only 250K people. Why did we move here? Think about that (though people are moving here in droves). There was recently a Where's Ollie post on Glacier. Yes, it’s truly a one-of-a-kind beautiful place! It's so unique that almost everybody wants to go there, like Yellowstone, the Tetons and Yosemite to name just one of the great NPs in CA. I went to Glacier in 1986, the 100th anniversary of the state of Montana. There were so many tour buses, Chinese tourists many and others, after a quick chase up a trail to try to catch up to a mountain goat, we left asap and tent-camped after hiking into the Bob Marshall Wilderness. There we didn’t observe another human all week. The NF and Lake Flathead were great! I lived East most of my life, besides IL 10 years in VA (both Tidewater and NoVa). Eastern Tennessee is beautiful but the entire east coast is so highly populated. It's certainly more difficult to boondock somewhere East vs. West. BLM land is only in western states and I believe there are about 8 National Forests in Arizona alone. Then we have Utah and SW CO within a days drive. Just finishing a 10 day trip to SW Colorado. Last night we arrived at a boondocking site off I-40 in Winona AZ, two hours from home. I found it using the Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM) for the Coconino NF and then I use OnX Offroad to navigate the FS roads. We are on a ranch road, so there’s ranch traffic which I mind less than tourist traffic. You can tell when at 5 PM 6-8 work trucks were heading out and this morning at 4:45 AM they all returned to work. I got back to sleep. Take a look at our campsite, not bad with views of the San Francisco Peaks! Last night I walked down the short dirt road next to us. There was a Casita pull by a Honda SUV. They are 200 yards behind us but we haven’t talked, each keeping to ourselves (behind where I took the second picture). After a few nights boondocking in another great spot north of Dolores CO, we tried some locations east of Mancos, west of Durango. We found too many modern homeless types. Those who camp in their vans, trucks or cars. It was Labor Day weekend making campsites busier. Not feeling good about camping there, we stayed at Target Tree a US FS campgrounds. Check in on Labor Day and the grounds were about 2/3 full. The next morning everybody left except us, the very nice host and one other. Yeah, a view of the Grand Tetons would be great, but don’t go in season unless you want the traffic and the lines. This place is not bad to have to ourselves. What a site the Casita guy has, far enough off the road. We’ll come back here again. There is a huge network of roads with literally 100s of boondocking sites. If you want this kind of experience don’t cheap out on batteries/inverter/solar and install a new efficient A/C (yay Chill Cube)! We just finished 10 days without hookups. Our 900 Ah batteries are now down to 30% SOC. We ran the A/C for 2 full days plus lunches on the road and a couple days just late afternoon. We ran the fridge and hot water heater on LP when camped. Our DC-DC charger is always attached when towing. By the time we get home, SOC should be up to 45%. Keep in mind that these numbers are % of 900 and if they are to get done to 25% our reserve would be equal to 4 large AGMs. Yeah, for us having an Oliver is worth it. It’s what you make it to be. We love ours!

Life events have put our travel on hold this past year, but on our last long trip to the PNW last fall we did see lots of crowds at most of the 7 national parks we visited. Less crowding durning the week, but weekends were busy. We stayed at some really nice state parks in WA, OR, ID and UT that were not crowded at all. $100K is a lot for an Oliver, we’d be stretched if we needed to buy one now. Like Bill, ours seemed like a lot of money in 2016 ($51K) but not as scary as 100K. There have been some significant changes and upgrades, windows, shades, bathroom door, convection, and more. Not to mention batteries/power options. We thought 4 AGMs was a big deal 10 years ago! Welcome back! Mike

55k in 2016 is around 76-77k in today's dollars. Though as you say- there more standard options these days.

We have a 2022 Elite 2. I don't think the quality of our particular unit is as good as ones from earlier years. Maybe it was the rapid expansion of production due to COVID, or maybe ours was just built on a Monday, can't say, but we've had quite a few issues. OTOH, there are things missing on the current models that we enjoy on ours. We like the rear window that can open, the built-in sound system, the larger freezer in our fridge, the reading lights on both ends of the beds, and a few other details not present on the new units. I don't think we would buy another new Oliver at the current price points. (If we were buying today, we'd be looking at a Wingamm mini-motorhome.)

I took 5-6 years to make a choice. Started Oliver, went through the Airstreams, Escapes to Bigfoot, and almost last minute fortunately went back to Oliver which was the absolute right choice. I’ve only become happier with it as times gone on. But unfortunately during that period the price got seriously jacked up. Originally I think it was running in the 60’s which was fine but now is over 100k. On the good side it was worth the wait, the only two features I wanted in the trailer was an induction stove and frameless windows - both which happened to drop in 2026 when we were buying. More luck, the ‘27’s dropped the valances, roller shades and single control windows which I prefer. So it was the right time for us regardless of the price. As for value the nearest competitor is Airstreams which are roughly the same price. But there you get (crummy IMO) manual awnings, no battery with little upgrade options, 2kW inverter IIRC, no compost option (LOVE THE COMPOST TOILET lol …) and a trailer which leaks. As many Airstreamers have said “it WILL leak”. As for pizzaz the Airstreams are awfully cool to look at, but so is the Oliver. Not a lot in the West and I constantly get compliments “that’s the prettiest little trailer I’ve seen”. Under the hood the Oliver is just superior in every way too. Not looking down my nose on Airstream - I wanted to buy at one point, but being an engineer I looked deep into them and they’re consumer grade honestly.

$100,000 has a BUNCH of sticker shock value. However, - roughly speaking - the value of a dollar declines around 50% every seven to ten years or so. So, I bought my Oliver is 2016 for about $55,000 and to the degree that inflation statistics are true then my Oliver would "normally" be priced at around $110,000 in today's dollars. And, today's Oliver has a number of what used to be options already included in the price plus a few things that have been improved over the past ten plus years. Finally, I look at the value of my net worth compared to ten + years ago and realize that I'm in better financial shape today then I was in 2016. Come on back to the Family! We're waiting for you. Bill