Galileo Posted January 17 Posted January 17 I swear - I tried to find a thread for this, but couldn’t. Our black tank dump handle got SO hard to pull to open I was afraid it would snap off the T handle. The cable that operates the valve is about 12 feet long and has two 90 degree bends. I tried rerouting the cable to ease the radii, but it only helped a bit. Oliver’s “fix” is installing an electric valve. They want ~$900 to do that upgrade. I found the Valterra electric valve on Amazon for under $200 - and I’ve been known to be pretty handy, so I bought it. The valve install is pretty easy - cramped quarters and the ability to work without seeing anything helps. The valve is in. The electric switch is another matter. I haven’t quite settled on where to put it. I -think- I can cut a rectangular hole where the old valve was, but it looks to tight if possible. Anybody else done this upgrade, and if so, where did you put the switch? Anybody have this done by Oliver - and where did THEY put the switch? Val 2 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
rich.dev Posted January 17 Posted January 17 (edited) Thanks Val, I like it! Is this the one you installed? Ideal spot for the switch is where the pull handles are, so you can have an eye on the outside business!😊 How long are the dc wires for the switch and what gauge? Did you only switch out the black or black and grey? Edited January 17 by rich.dev 1 2023 Elite II, Hull# 1386, Lithium Platinum Package (640AH, 400W Roof Solar, 3000W Xantrex Inverter), added 400W Renogy Solar suitcase with Victron MPPT 100/30 CC, Truma water heater & AC TV: 2024 Silverado 2500HD 6.6L 10-Speed Allison
Steph and Dud B Posted January 17 Posted January 17 Just in case, before you install an electric valve: If you disconnect the cable from the existing valve does the cable pull out of its sheath easily? If so, the resistance might be in the valve itself. That happened to us. Valve lubricant worked for a while but the valve eventually leaked and had to be replaced. Still cheaper than an electric valve and less to go wrong in the future. (Electric gate valves add a motor and wiring to a previously simple system.) 3 Stephanie and Dudley from CT. 2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior. Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4. Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed Where we've been RVing since 1999:
Galileo Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 Rich.dev, Yes, that’s the one. Only swapped out the black because the grey is fine. Not sure how long the wires are. I’m good at splicing if it comes down to it. Steph & Dud - The valve pushed in dead easy. So pretty sure the cable is binding in the sheath around the bends. And yes, I’m loathe to complicate simple systems, but if those systems don’t work…. Besides, this is the “fix” Oliver uses. Worst case scenario - you can actuate the valve manually - just have to go under the dinette seat. V 1 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
jd1923 Posted January 17 Posted January 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, Galileo said: The valve install is pretty easy - cramped quarters and the ability to work without seeing anything helps. The valve is in. And that's the hard part! Running wire and mounting switches NP! Yes, of course more expensive with much greater functionality! Thank you, I just added this to my Wishlist! If you are going to all the work of replacing the valve, I would certainly go this path. I like the short pull (backup) handle that would be more reliable than a 12 FT cable and simple electric motors are generally reliable. I replaced ALL my manual water valves to electric already. This is a no-brainer for our hull! This valve is rated 4.5 on Amazon with 200 reviews. @rich.dev has the best idea, I think. Put the switches where the current handles are located. I would scrap the supplied wire harness (likely not long enough) and the supplied (awkward) switch and plate and buy 3 marine grade (waterproof) simple toggle switches, up for open and down means closed! They will fit in the holes left by the pull handles once removed. Run stranded 14 AWG wire which should be fine since they use a 5A fuse in the switch. I would also relocate all fuses to my 12VDC positive bus. Handy since I relocated it to under the rear dinette seat. Better to have all fuses centrally located than at the switch or the motor (for all appliances). I would replace all three (3) valves, sooner or later. Really dislike the one by the toilet that keeps the gray from backing up. How many times have we forgot that and have to climb back up in the trailer. All switches together, in the same outside location makes sense to me. We always have that rear hatch open when leaving a campsite anyway. Added a couple pics, food for thought, and thanks again for this idea! 😂 Edited January 17 by jd1923 1 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
jd1923 Posted January 18 Posted January 18 I just found something that may be better for those of us who have waste drain valves in good condition but with a hard pull or merely wanting to go electric. You do not have to remove the valves to install this motorized helper: https://www.barkermfg.com/auto-drains.html 1 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
Galileo Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 Good idea on the Barker valve “helper, but I already jumped on the Valterra electric valve. That said: @rich.dev “has the best idea, I think. Put the switches where the current handles are located. I would scrap the supplied wire harness (likely not long enough) and the supplied (awkward) switch and plate and buy 3 marine grade (waterproof) simple toggle switches, up for open and down means closed! They will fit in the holes left by the pull handles once removed.” Yep - the supplied cable is only about 7 feet long - and needs to be twice that. As for the switch, it’s DPDT -with- a pilot light - so a bit special - though I can likely just do a separate pilot light. Pretty sure those two would fit into the existing T-handle hole and an extra one for the pilot light. The connectors are another issue as the disconnect between the valve and the harness is fairly special - looks like a Molex knock-off to me. I’ll likely have to replace that connector with a more standard one. Finally, I think I’ll piggyback the 12v power for the valve onto the curb side leveling jack. It’s right there in the same area, has a capable enough circuit, and is highly unlikely to be used at the same time. So - though it’s not a drop-in solution, it’s still gonna be less expensive than paying Oliver to install it, and can be done on my own schedule. Until then - I have a “manual” valve that I have to go under the forward dinette seat to actuate. V 1 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
jd1923 Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) 4 hours ago, Galileo said: Good idea on the Barker valve “helper, but I already jumped on the Valterra electric valve. Sure, I meant for others who don’t need a new valve but would like the power assist. I just ordered one to check it out. If it works out I’ll get a second 3” and one 1 1/2”. I would really want the switches where the pull handles are. Or you could mount those switch plates just inside the rear storage on the wall to the streetside basement, easy to runs wires to get there. Waterproof DPDT switches are common in toggle switches. I purchased these to run my motorized ball valves to replace the manual fresh water valves: https://a.co/d/7vJmWl8 Edited January 18 by jd1923 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
dewdev Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) @jd1923 Good idea. Although, I would question how waterproof those switches really are. The rubber boot does not do it for me. Edited January 19 by dewdev 2 2018 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #354 2024 RAM 1500, 4 x 4; Gas. 5.7L V8 Hemi MDS VVT Torque; 3.21 rear axle ratio w/TIMBREN spring rear suspension addition Maine
jd1923 Posted January 18 Posted January 18 1 minute ago, dewdev said: @jd1923 Good idea. Although, I would question how waterproof those switches really are. The rubber boot does not do it for me. Yep, I get it Dewdev and you live up in the land of the Nor'easter! Last time it rained down here was September? No snow yet either. Several large capacity humidifiers running throughout our home! First, get better quality switches from a marine supply store. Drill the smallest possible hole and just add a thin bead of clear silicone inside the hole. I used these cheap Amazon switches for interior mounting, where being waterproof was not a concern. They've worked reliably for our fresh water motorized ball valves. 1 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
Galileo Posted January 19 Author Posted January 19 23 hours ago, dewdev said: @jd1923 Good idea. Although, I would question how waterproof those switches really are. The rubber boot does not do it for me. True - I’d call them “water resistant” or maybe even “spray resistant”. A rubber boot over the toggle assumes the rear of the switch is in a sealed enclosure. 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
jd1923 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Galileo said: ... assumes the rear of the switch is in a sealed enclosure. It certainly should be! The rear side of the waste valve pull handles is the basement under the streetside bed. The better quality switch was already mentioned and you could cut a simple cover plate to fit the recessed area with a rubber seal to cover the switches. Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
jd1923 Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) On 1/18/2025 at 10:00 AM, Galileo said: Good idea on the Barker valve “helper, but I already jumped on the Valterra electric valve. I did buy the Barker product and then there was an Amazon "like new" Valterra valve so I thought I would get both to compare and later return one of them. I believe you did good on the Valterra. Made in Mexico vs. USA but I like how it's an integrated unit. The motor is heavier and feels stronger running. Included is the valve and seals, the Barker kit contains motor, bracket and switch only and you may need a new valve to mount the Barker easily (handle vs. cable pull). The Valterra has the better wire harness and switch with both black/gray faceplates. At least you can recess the switch (cut large holes), both switches are too big! Not fond of the fuse in the faceplate, prefer the separate fuse wired at the bus. I powered both up and they are in the raised position as pictured. Edited January 26 by jd1923 1 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
rich.dev Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) @Galileo and @jd1923 on either/or both the Barker and Valterra, can the switch be toggled to open the valve partially, or is it a fully open/close deal? Edited January 26 by rich.dev 2023 Elite II, Hull# 1386, Lithium Platinum Package (640AH, 400W Roof Solar, 3000W Xantrex Inverter), added 400W Renogy Solar suitcase with Victron MPPT 100/30 CC, Truma water heater & AC TV: 2024 Silverado 2500HD 6.6L 10-Speed Allison
jd1923 Posted January 26 Posted January 26 3 hours ago, rich.dev said: @Galileo and @jd1923 on either/or both the Barker and Valterra, can the switch be toggled to open the valve partially, or is it a fully open/close deal? Rich, you caught me just in time! Leaving very soon to drive to Vegas (not towing today) to teach my PMP Prep class Mon-Thu this week. Next weekend heading to the Q with family and Oliver in tow! Hope to see you then. Turns out the Barker can be set at any height. You can ease it open which can be helpful when letting gray go in the BLM or NF lands (yes, it is legal when at a distance from others and water sources). Of course, when dropping the black tank into a sewer/septic system you would rather release all waste quickly, valve full open. Not the Valterra valve which is either all the way up or down. It must be due to the switch which could be replaced with another DPDT switch (pictured). The odd little breaker or reset button is odd. I would delete it adding a simple butt connector on the white wires in and out and wire a 5A fuse at the + bus. Without the faceplate this switch could be mounted where the pull handles are located, but I cannot determine if this switch is waterproof (unlikely). Barker has a 1 1/2" valve model and I have not been able to find one in the Valterra brand. I want to motorize all 3 valves, especially the 1 1/2" valve which gates the gray water from the bathroom. It will be great to merely push a button and remove the pull handle from the bathroom! I will do this work Feb-Mar, weather and time depending. 1 2 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
rich.dev Posted January 26 Posted January 26 Thanks John! 😊 2023 Elite II, Hull# 1386, Lithium Platinum Package (640AH, 400W Roof Solar, 3000W Xantrex Inverter), added 400W Renogy Solar suitcase with Victron MPPT 100/30 CC, Truma water heater & AC TV: 2024 Silverado 2500HD 6.6L 10-Speed Allison
Galileo Posted February 6 Author Posted February 6 I concur with JD on the Valterra being all or nothing. The description of the product mentions limit switches so you don’t have to worry about holding a momentary switch until it’s fully open or closed (like the Autovent in the closet). There’s no “center off” position on the included DPDT rocker switch, so if you’re not opening, you’re closing or vice-versa. Turns out the included wiring harness is only about 7 feet long, so too short to install the switch in the position of the original handle. I don’t see another good place to mount it that makes any sense. That means I get to make up a new harness as I don’t like to put splices in the middle of a cable run - especially where that might end up someplace inaccessible. I’m also going to upgrade from 18-3 cable to 16-3. Mainly because that’s all I could find at Home Depot - and because heavier wire on longer runs is just good practice. Anyway, until I do the rest of the surgery, I’m have to duck under the forward dinette seat to actuate the valve. Already had one mishap and one near miss where I either forgot to close the valve. (Yeah, messy) or, opened the valve before I had connected the stinky slinky. The saving grace with that is IF you realize it before you take the cap off inside the rear bumper, you can lower the nose of the trailer and take the cap off without getting a shower…. 1 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
jd1923 Posted February 6 Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Galileo said: Turns out the included wiring harness is only about 7 feet long, so too short to install the switch in the position of the original handle. Thanks for the update. I’m going to do both, so if/when you replace the gray tank valve, the included harness will be long enough there. Yes, good to replace the full length of wire. 1 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
Galileo Posted Saturday at 07:20 PM Author Posted Saturday at 07:20 PM On 2/6/2025 at 4:41 PM, jd1923 said: Thanks for the update. I’m going to do both, so if/when you replace the gray tank valve, the included harness will be long enough there. Yes, good to replace the full length of wire. Yes, I thought about replacing both. The guy I spoke to at Oliver Service said “there’s not enough room to replace the grey tank valve”. Whether that’s true or not I haven’t verified. Based on the size of the electric black tank valve compared to the cable operated one - I’m skeptical. The electric one doesn’t seem to be much - if any - larger. At least not in overall length. Then again, it might be chunkier/bulkier close to the pipe where the motor/gearbox are. Anyway, I’m not looking to replace things just for the sake of it. I felt the electric valve for the black tank is better than fussing with and nursing the cable as it was getting worse and worse. So long as the grey tank valve behaves, I’ll keep it simple. If and when you take a look at it JD - let us know if it looks like the electric valve will fit or not. V 2 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
jd1923 Posted Sunday at 02:12 AM Posted Sunday at 02:12 AM (edited) 11 hours ago, Galileo said: Yes, I thought about replacing both. The guy I spoke to at Oliver Service said “there’s not enough room to replace the grey tank valve”. Whether that’s true or not I haven’t verified. Thanks again Val. 😂 OTT service may have a point. Bummer, as this may kill my all electric plan! And I have another issue... I installed our Victron MP2 Inverter/Charger directly over the gray valve! So for ANY gray tank valve repair, I would have a whole lot of extra work to do! But I would rather do preventive maintenance at home than have a stuck gray valve on the road. Both of my valve handles are difficult to pull and return. Why didn't I think of at least greasing the cable and piston earlier? Not good for me and some others. Wondering why OTT Service does not replace these valves with the exact same part vs. going electric? I either want either two motorized valves or two new pull cables, not one of each. The gray tank valve was installed horizontally by Oliver (see pic, valve is bottom left and corner of gray tank is bottom right). There is ample room around it but the drain pipe is laying on the floor of the outer hull with some insulation and/or a rubber mat below it. The motorized valve protrudes in both directions parallel to the valve. So as-is, it will not fit. There may be a way I could rig this. I will have a new seals and new manual valve on hand when I work this. I don't like to pamper old parts, just to get a little more out of them. The original valves lasted 10 years and want something that will last another 10 years. The electric valve is the best solution since there is no cable, no maintenance. I can't pull the inverter every time the cable or valve piston needs to be greased! Edited Sunday at 06:44 AM by jd1923 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
Galileo Posted Sunday at 02:24 PM Author Posted Sunday at 02:24 PM 11 hours ago, jd1923 said: Thanks again Val. 😂 OTT service may have a point. Bummer, as this may kill my all electric plan! And I have another issue... I installed our Victron MP2 Inverter/Charger directly over the gray valve! So for ANY gray tank valve repair, I would have a whole lot of extra work to do! But I would rather do preventive maintenance at home than have a stuck gray valve on the road. Both of my valve handles are difficult to pull and return. Why didn't I think of at least greasing the cable and piston earlier? Not good for me and some others. Wondering why OTT Service does not replace these valves with the exact same part vs. going electric? I either want either two motorized valves or two new pull cables, not one of each. The gray tank valve was installed horizontally by Oliver (see pic, valve is bottom left and corner of gray tank is bottom right). There is ample room around it but the drain pipe is laying on the floor of the outer hull with some insulation and/or a rubber mat below it. The motorized valve protrudes in both directions parallel to the valve. So as-is, it will not fit. There may be a way I could rig this. I will have a new seals and new manual valve on hand when I work this. I don't like to pamper old parts, just to get a little more out of them. The original valves lasted 10 years and want something that will last another 10 years. The electric valve is the best solution since there is no cable, no maintenance. I can't pull the inverter every time the cable or valve piston needs to be greased! JD, I haven’t even looked at the grey valve or where it’s located, so you’re a leg up on me on that subject. From your pic, it sure looks shoehorned in there! I don’t relish the thought of having to replace it. Why doesn’t OTT replace the black tank valve with another cable-operated one vs an electric one? My wild guess would be that they know that the one with the l-o-n-g cable is prone to failure and that an electric one would be the better option. (That they should have at least offered as an option up front!) Yours lasted ten years - mine was showing signs of total failure after only two years - in spite of babying it and using valve lubricants and making sure never to let crud dry in it. Long push-pull cables are asking for trouble - especially when throwing a couple of 90 degree bends into them. Yes, several folks said “Lube the cable!” - but that’s considerably easier said than -effectively- done. Unlike brake, throttle, and clutch cables on motorcycles, there’s no tool that you can clamp around one end of the cable and force appropriate lube through the cable under pressure. (I’ve used those on bikes - and even they are only marginally effective.) Without taking the whole cable out of the sheath and manually greasing it up, you’re just throwing oil at the ends of the cable -hoping- it will work its way to the area that needs it. I had a similar issue with the transmission cable on our sailboat. It “pushed” smooth as silk, but the “pull” bound up and locked up solid. My theory is that when pulling around those two 90 degree bends, the cable cuts into the sheath and digs into the worn area - likely cutting through the low-friction surface inside the sheath. No lube is gonna fix that for long and you’re going to have a problem eventually. Easing the radii on both ends of the black tank dump valve vocable helped a bit - but the problem was soon coming back and no further easing of the bends was possible. Hence, electric valve. I ran into another Ollie owner with a very low hull number a few weeks ago. He shared that he added another manual valve inside the rear bumper, so that if he had a valve leak or failure, he didn’t get a urine bath when popping the cap off. I don’t think I’d do that as in a pinch you can just drop the nose of the trailer fully and gravity will do the job for you. Anyway, with the considerable shorter cable run, the grey tank dump valve is fine and hopefully will stay that way for as long as yours has. 1 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
Moderators Mike and Carol Posted Sunday at 04:44 PM Moderators Posted Sunday at 04:44 PM I will just add my experience with the long black tank cable. It is very easy to lube. Loosen the set screw on top of the black tank valve and the cable easily pulls out. Wipe down with your preferred lube/grease and it goes back in as easy as it came out. Tighten down the set screw and you’re done. I’ve done this 3 times over the years since 2016. A shorter cable run would probably be better and an electric valve better as well, but the current set up has been fine considering how many times we’ve dumped! Mike 1 2 Texas Hill Country | 2016 Elite II #135 | 2020 Ram 2500 6.7L
jd1923 Posted Sunday at 05:08 PM Posted Sunday at 05:08 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, Galileo said: From your pic, it sure looks shoehorned in there! I don’t relish the thought of having to replace it. 2 hours ago, Galileo said: hopefully will stay that way for as long as yours has. Shouldn't be to difficult to replace if you do not have an inverter installed over top of it! Our valves and pull handles look to be original. An equal amount of patina on all parts. A friend of mine had suggested that the cables do not have to be removed. "Pull the cables all the way out and then apply silicone grease on the piston at the valve." And thank you Mike @Mike and Carol for describing your method. Glad to know the cable will go back in easy! I feared not. It should come out crusty black and dry! We got home yesterday from a week at Quartzsite, so both tanks are empty now and I rinsed the black until the water was crystal clear thinking valve replacement. I was liking two electric valves for $400 plus labor, but the labor on the gray valve just got to be too much. I have time to work on it this week and this has become a priority. I'll start with the black tank valve under the front dinette seat, since I can get to it easily and see if I can improve the action. Given that works well enough, I'll hope I can reach around and under the inverter to get some grease on the other valve and hope with a mirror I can see the set screw for the cable. It's odd that our hardest one to pull & push is the 1 1/2" gray valve, handle below the toilet. So is the longer cable really the issue? I will replace this one with electric even if I cannot on the two 3" valves. It will be great to remove the ugly pull handle in the bathroom and better yet if I can install the electric switch so it can be reached when standing at the Oliver entrance. For some reason the Valterra 1 1/2" electric valve costs more than the 3" model. I found one, only one left, with a seller on Walmart.com for $198. Most sellers state "out of stock" and etrailer has them for more $$$. Will keep y'all posted... https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Waste-Valves/Valterra/VAL55MB.html Edited Sunday at 05:12 PM by jd1923 2 Chris & John in Prescott, AZ | 2016 EII #113 | '01 Ram 2500 Cummins!
Moderators Mike and Carol Posted Monday at 04:06 PM Moderators Posted Monday at 04:06 PM 22 hours ago, jd1923 said: A friend of mine had suggested that the cables do not have to be removed. "Pull the cables all the way out and then apply silicone grease on the piston at the valve." And thank you Mike @Mike and Carol for describing your method. Glad to know the cable will go back in easy! I feared not. It should come out crusty black and dry! I think we were at Quartzsite some years ago camping next to Steve and Tali @ScubaRx and I was complaining that my black tank cable was getting difficult to pull out. Steve said to take it out, lube it and stick it back in. With that bit of technical instruction I did exactly that and problem solved. Mike 2 Texas Hill Country | 2016 Elite II #135 | 2020 Ram 2500 6.7L
Galileo Posted Monday at 06:07 PM Author Posted Monday at 06:07 PM 1 hour ago, Mike and Carol said: I think we were at Quartzsite some years ago camping next to Steve and Tali @ScubaRx and I was complaining that my black tank cable was getting difficult to pull out. Steve said to take it out, lube it and stick it back in. With that bit of technical instruction I did exactly that and problem solved. Mike Dunno what it means that Oliver Service recommends replacing with electric if lubing is a lasting fix. One would think if all that long cable needs is a bit of lube to function smoothly for a good long time, they would have lived it at the factory. Regardless, the behaviour of mine (pull out - very hard, push in - very easy) tells me that there’s more to this issue than lack of lubrication on the cable or valve gate itself. Again - have worked with similar cable before and not been satisfied with temporary fixes. Anyway, I still have the original valve, cable, and pull handle in place, so I can play around with trying to lube the cable and use it if my electric fails. (Though the electric valve already has a manual T handle.) 1 2022 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull #1029, King Bed Floorplan
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