Epoch Battery ?'s

[routlaw]

Hello All

Been AWOL for a while but just returned from a week long trip to the SW and was sorely reminded of the need to finally upgrade our battery pack. It works for water pump, lights, stabilizer jacks etc but not for the furnace. Just not enough juice to trip the sail switch, go figure.

Have been looking at both SOK and the Epoch but was put off by Will Prowse's review of issues with the Epoch brand. Pitfall software app, and in some cases just downright failures of the entire battery. Not so with the SOK brand. Apparently the app for SOK is quite good. 

So for all you folks who have upgraded to the Epoch line of LiOn batteries can you shed some user field experience. It would be much appreciated. I will add this to the equation, having reached out to Epoch a few times I have found their customer support to be downright pitiful. Either short and curt responses or none at all. Worse I am not alone in this apparently when you read some of the reviews of their customers who have purchased their batteries. 

Thanks again.

Rob

[johnwen]

21 minutes ago, routlaw said:

Hello All

Been AWOL for a while but just returned from a week long trip to the SW and was sorely reminded of the need to finally upgrade our battery pack. It works for water pump, lights, stabilizer jacks etc but not for the furnace. Just not enough juice to trip the sail switch, go figure.

Have been looking at both SOK and the Epoch but was put off by Will Prowse's review of issues with the Epoch brand. Pitfall software app, and in some cases just downright failures of the entire battery. Not so with the SOK brand. Apparently the app for SOK is quite good. 

So for all you folks who have upgraded to the Epoch line of LiOn batteries can you shed some user field experience. It would be much appreciated. I will add this to the equation, having reached out to Epoch a few times I have found their customer support to be downright pitiful. Either short and curt responses or none at all. Worse I am not alone in this apparently when you read some of the reviews of their customers who have purchased their batteries. 

Thanks again.

Rob

Hi Rob,

I'm leery to give any advice here, especially after Prowse's last review but it was made after my install.  Here's my experience....we swapped out for 2 Epoch 300ah essentials 2 months ago at Quartzsite (installed myself...with a little help from my friends), loaded the app, installed a Victron dc to dc charger.  All has been working as advertised and I could not be happier with the result.  Both batteries charge fully and equally on solar and on A/C through the Xantrex 2000 W inverter.  After all is said, I would be hesitant as you are and I don't know how I would have proceeded had that review been posted before my install.  In retrospect my install went great and maybe I was just lucky or the review doesn't apply to my 300ah batteries, just the larger ones.  I do not plan to perform any type of software upgrades in the future...even if deemed safe to do so.

[routlaw]

Thanks John for this reply and helpful info. FWIW you installed the same batteries I was contemplating the most but probably only one of them. History has proven we just do not use or need that much stored power. Just curious how do you feel about the Epoch app in general, upgraded or not? Prowse and others thinks it needs work, and in some cases lots of work.

[jd1923]

Interesting how Will Prowse pronounces "Epoch" batteries. Take another look at his video. He is NOT reviewing the less-expensive Epoch Essentials battery that most of us have purchased. He has issues with the software (only) of the high-end model with "Victron Comms" (don't remember the name of that model). From what I've read here, only @rideadeuce has purchased this model. He also is only talking about the recent firmware update. So perhaps Mike should not update the firmware on his batteries.

Our Epoch Essentials batteries are perfect in every way I can see. I have used them for 9 months, have brought them under 20% SOC charge twice on the road, all without issue. I love them! 😂

[routlaw]

True I did realize he was only reviewing the higher end Elite model 12V 460 AH and not the 12 V 300AH Essential which I was also considering. On Epoch's website they do have a spell out pronunciation as e-pic so I think Prowse is saying it correctly. In any case there are or were many who complain about the app with or without upgrade as well as customer service. One does have to wonder though what is it they have done differently on the more expensive battery compared to the less expensive that has made it so unreliable other than the app. For what they charge for these things it's a bit inexcusable. 

Glad you are having great results with yours, most important and good recommendation. 

[ADKCamper]

I'm just finishing up a battery upgrade to a single Epoch "Essentials" 300Ah, to replace a pair of aging 6volt LifeLine AGM's.

So far, so good. Connected to the battery via Bluetooth just fine, and was able to charge it on the bench with no issues. The standard Epoch app seems to work fine, although a tad confusing. It has a link for OTA (over the air) updates, which does nothing (not sure if the Essential batteries *can* be updated OTA...). There is a link for "Advanced" features that requires a mystery password (not sure if the Essential batteries *have* any advanced features that can be seen or user-modified). The only 3 real issues I have with the standard Epoch app are (1) there is no PIN to setup when you complete the Bluetooth pairing, so anyone can connect to your battery if you're not already connected, and (2) the app shows *EVERY* nearby Bluetooth device in the initial screen of available devices... not just the available Epoch devices. I have 2 screens of Bluetooth accessible LED party lights in my neighborhood LOL, and (3) the "Operation Manual" link in the app only shows the manuals for the Marine and Golf Cart batteries; nothing for the Essential series.

There are currently 2 Epoch apps available - the regular app and the Pro app. The Essentials batteries use the regular app. I suspect most of the complaints about the app are related to the Pro app. Supposedly Epoch is working on merging the two apps into a single app, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

Customer service is indeed somewhat lacking. I've been able to reach them several times, though, with persistance (email + voicemail messages), and once in contact they have been helpful. Perhaps they are having "growing pains"?

We're gearing up to head out on the road shortly, so I'll know more in a few weeks about how the Epoch 300Ah Essentials battery behaves under load, with Victron MPPT solar charging and Progressive Dynamics shorepower charging.

Edited April 17 by ADKCamper

[johnwen]

1 hour ago, routlaw said:

Thanks John for this reply and helpful info. FWIW you installed the same batteries I was contemplating the most but probably only one of them. History has proven we just do not use or need that much stored power. Just curious how do you feel about the Epoch app in general, upgraded or not? Prowse and others thinks it needs work, and in some cases lots of work.

The only problem I have with the app is sometimes I have to restart the bluetooth on 1 of the batteries...through the on/off radial button in the app.  Not a big deal.

[routlaw]

Excellent info and feedback @ADKCamper appreciated and a very good description of what others have complained about with the app. I will most likely keep my Blue Sky controller charge from Sun Forge that originally came with #70 but will have to upgrade my Power Dynamics AC charger although it's not often we are plugged into shore power. I assume your PD charger came with the one that has an internal switch for Lithium?

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, routlaw said:

In any case there are or were many who complain about the app with or without upgrade as well as customer service.

I tried Epoch CS a year ago when I was trying to figure out if two of the 460AH batteries would fit in the Oliver without the tray. They have the dimensions listed two ways on their site vs. the use manual. After finally getting to a person, he said he would "look for a tape measure!" 🤣 He never came back to the phone. The reseller I purchased from helped me with my question. Their CS is certainly questionable.

I use the basic app, had not heard of a Pro version. The issues I have with their app is that it lists every Bluetooth device in our Oliver and nearby and it does not know which Bluetooth signal is its own batteries! I have to click on each battery, some cryptic string of letters and numbers and once it registers I go to the second page to see the battery stats. Once there everything works well. The Epoch app numbers are always a bit off from the Victron numbers, more conservative meaning lower SOCs, but I believe them to be more true than what Victron calculates as SOC. It's not user-friendly but good enough for my use.

[routlaw]

@jd1923 yes if you go to the App Store you will see two versions, Pro and Basic or standard. It’s my understanding the Pro version only works with their top tier batteries. In the meantime sounds like you CS experience reflects what others have encountered too. Not good. Interesting comments on the app otherwise. Needs work for sure. Thanks

[tallmandan]

I just installed two Epoch 300aH Essential batteries in my LEII.   @jd1923  let me know he ordered his from an authorized retailer called Renewable Outdoors and I did the same.  They had the same price as the Epoch website and had very good communication and service.   They simply process the order and the batteries are shipped direct from Epoch anyway. 

https://renewableoutdoors.com/products/epoch-batteries-12v-300ah-heated-bluetooth-lifepo4-battery-epoch-essentials

So far, so good with mine.  The batteries arrived in good shape in protective boxes at 55% SOC.  They connected to the app easily. Agree that it's anoying to have to find them in the list of every bluetooth device in range but the app allows you to rename each battery so it's quicker to find them in the list.  The app provides all the stats you could want.

It's too soon to comment as I have yet to take a trip with them, but I'm excited to have 600aH and expect to have no power worries at all.

As a side note, the list price as gone up by $200 to $1199 in the last few weeks.  Not sure if this is related to the China tarif situation.  It will be interesting to see what happens to lithium ion battery prices across all brands as 98% of all lithium batteries are made in China 😞

[jd1923]

47 minutes ago, tallmandan said:

As a side note, the list price as gone up by $200 to $1199 in the last few weeks.

Dang, I should have bought a 3rd one at $999 with 15% off! I'll stay with 600Ah then.

Good to hear you're all set. Best wishes, JD

[jd1923]

6 hours ago, routlaw said:

I will most likely keep my Blue Sky controller charge from Sun Forge that originally came with #70 but will have to upgrade my Power Dynamics AC charger although it's not often we are plugged into shore power.

So, what I'm about to suggest may return insults from the purists here...

Of course, get your Blue Sky SC setup properly for LiFePO4 at the voltage settings spec'd by the battery manufacturer. The dozens of menus and buttons you have to push in this setup is truly tedious. I went through it all following the training video below. It took me 3 tries to get it right without making a mistake! 🤣

Given you're "not often plugged into shore power" you could forgo purchase of the PD charger upgrade, at least for a while (or longer). We got home from camping last week and I only plug in at home when over 90F and I need A/C. Batteries were 55% SOC and by the 3rd day they're back to 100% on the Blue Sky charger alone. 

The only true harm to LiFePO4 batteries by charging in lead acid mode on shore power is over-charging. So when you need to charge occasionally using the onboard PD charger, just turn it off when you get to 90% or so. Even 100% is OK if you turn it off just in time. Personally, I NEVER leave a charger on continuously (except a MPPT SC) or for more than 48 hours, "smart charger" configured correctly or not. I just don't trust algorithms nor programmers. If you're one that would forget it's connected, that's another thing!

Learning Center – Sunforge LLC

[ADKCamper]

6 hours ago, routlaw said:

Excellent info and feedback @ADKCamper appreciated and a very good description of what others have complained about with the app. I will most likely keep my Blue Sky controller charge from Sun Forge that originally came with #70 but will have to upgrade my Power Dynamics AC charger although it's not often we are plugged into shore power. I assume your PD charger came with the one that has an internal switch for Lithium?

No it did not. I replaced the original Progressive Dynamics converter with the newer lithium-capable model... At some point in the future I will likely replace the PD converter with a Victron charger which can be programmed to match my Victron solar charge controller; I just need the time to find/manufacture a place to mount it. There's not a lot of room remaining under the seats in an Elite-1.

[routlaw]

This is great info @tallmandan had not found an online retailer. Given the heartier price if I go this route with Epoch perhaps I would be better served with the 460 Amp version which is only $300 more yet a 50% increase in AH. It's considerable heavier though which is a deterrent. I have no doubt the price increase is due to tariffs, but will call your linked company and delve into this and report back. 

[routlaw]

@jd1923 agreed configuring the Blue Sky SC is a bit tedious. You have some valid suggestions on your post but probably will just belly up to the bar and buy the upgraded PD charger anyway rather than sweating bullets about watching the SOC when I am plugged into shore power. All that said, I am surprised it took 3 days to get from 55% to 100% with your solar and Blue Sky SC. On the other hand that is 270 amps to ramp up which is more than the available amps allowable with the 4 pack of lead acid (450 AH /2 = 225 AH). Thanks

[jd1923]

49 minutes ago, routlaw said:

I am surprised it took 3 days to get from 55% to 100% with your solar and Blue Sky SC.

I didn't look until 3 days! was also cloudy one day.