Found a crack

[Steph and Dud B]

Found this crack by the water heater while waxing the trailer today. Starts under the water heater lip and stops at the outward curve of the fiberglass. Thoughts?

[topgun2]

59 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Thoughts?

I'm thinking that this will be a fairly easy fix.

If it were mine - I'd send a note to Oliver Service asking what they think.

Bill

[Steph and Dud B]

1 hour ago, topgun2 said:

I'd send a note to Oliver Service asking what they think.

Ticket already submitted.

[John Dorrer]

2 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Ticket already submitted.

I believe the fiberglass is covered for 5 years by Oliver.

[Steph and Dud B]

Oliver will repair under warranty. That means finding a local shop or going back to the factory. Since we're already winterized and stored, I imagine we'll go back to Tennessee again in the spring. I have to call it now: This is the most problem-plagued RV we've owned in 26 years of camping. Very disappointed in Oliver.

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

This is the most problem-plagued RV we've owned in 26 years of camping. Very disappointed in Oliver.

I'm so sorry to hear that you feel this way and am sorry for the "problems" that you have had with your Ollie.

My personal experience with both the Oliver Company and its travel trailer product has not been without "issues".  But, those issues were either not Oliver's fault or were taken care of by Oliver with few (if any hassles).

Just for my own frame of reference I took a look at the current warranty for Corvettes - it is three years for the fiberglass panels.  This does not make your experience of having to deal with the crack in your Ollie, but, at least it is covered under a warranty that is a full two years longer than a Vette's.  I also looked at the warranty on Bigfoots and found that it is either three years or five years depending on a number of things (so, it is unclear which it is and for what items).  In any case, Bigfoot's warranty is no greater than Oliver's.

Good luck with getting the crack repaired.  I truly hope that this will be the beginning of a better relationship.

Bill 

Edited Friday at 04:25 PM by topgun2
spelling

[Steph and Dud B]

2 hours ago, topgun2 said:

I'm so sorry to hear that you feel this way and am sorry for the "problems" that you have had with your Ollie.

Unfortunately, this is not one isolated problem with our unit. We've had 21 documented problems with our 3 year old trailer, some minor/cosmetic, others very serious/safety issues. (The toilet broke off on the way home from our delivery. The 120V wiring for our fridge melted because of an improperly installed Wago connector.) I've repaired the vast majority myself, but we've still had to make the 1,000 mile drive to Hohenwald 3 times for warranty work beyond my scope, plus a few repairs by our local RV tech at our expense. 

We've had good good luck with Oliver support as far as sending us parts and supporting us with local service but one of our trips to the OTT service center was well below par. An example: I asked them to pull the left front wheel because on the way south I could hear something loose in there. They told me they pulled the wheel and it was fine. When we got home we found a brake plate backer nut rattling around inside that drum. And OTT charged us for that "inspection"!

I'm not bashing the entire line, and apparently most people have had really good luck with their Olivers, but this trailer has been a constant battle with failures large and small and is, quantifiably, the most problem-plagued RV we've had. I suppose at some point we'll have fixed all the flaws it came with and go back to just normal wear and tear items. That will be nice.

Edited Friday at 05:29 PM by Steph and Dud B
Typo

[jd1923]

6 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Unfortunately, this is not one isolated problem with our unit. We've had 21 documented problems with our 3 year old trailer...

We've had quite the opposite experience in our 2 1/2 years with hull #113, manufactured 10 years ago. Though I have read everything on our Forum since and I do see many more issues in late-model hulls vs. the oldies but goodies!

I've worked a LOT of upgrades, but only a few repairs. And every issue I've found is when we were home. 130 days on the road everything has worked, no issues while traveling, knock on wood!

I found a breaker wired in the wrong direction. I have issues with how OTT wired things, but no electrical failures to-date. I've upgraded and rewired everything anyway.

I recently found OTT forgot to fully weld (tack-weld only) the mount to one stabilizer jack. OTT blamed Barker, but actually OTT makes these welds as part of the standard installation procedure. I made a new bracket with $10 of steel. We also had two small welds fail on the frame, two cross-members were hanging on one side. Local guy welded them for $75.

We had a drawer latch fail, the orange colored connector to the slide, just $10 and 10 minutes to repair. Now I have extra parts if another fails.

Prior owner complained of a noisy Suburban furnace, so OTT install an Atwood furnace back in 2018. Likely prior owners had worked through other issues of which I would be unaware.

The interior panel of the entrance door is lightly cracked, but this is from wind banging the door. This will not happen anymore now that Lippert friction hinges are installed.

We love our Oliver as it is now with my upgrades (inverter A/C coming soon)! We purchased a used Oliver at a good price and I do not expect anything out of OTT since it's long out of warranty. Yes, I would feel differently if we paid new price and had 21 issues listed to date. I don't see better quality out there. Even Winnebago, that some consider to be the best, is not better. We plan to keep our Oliver and leave it to our son when we are done with it. Don't want another brand, don't need something better.

If I found this crack on our hull, I would leave it alone and just keep an eye on it. Often bodywork on something small is worse in the long-run! They will likely just do something cosmetic, some fill on the surface. Which is fine, but certainly not worth a trip to Hohenwald for me, in my opinion. 

[Steph and Dud B]

31 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

I don't see better quality out there

This is valid. There were many, many RVs built around 2021-22 with far worse quality issues than we've had. The problem for us is that we paid quite a bit more than a standard RV's price to avoid those issues. I can forgive problems with 3rd party things like appliances and fixtures. Oliver couldn't control that. I'm far less forgiving of workmanship problems like wiring, plumbing and, obviously, their own fiberglass.

36 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

If I found this crack on our hull, I would leave it alone and just keep an eye on it. Often bodywork on something small is worse in the long-run! They will likely just do something cosmetic, some fill on the surface.

Yes, I would like to know more about what's going on here. Is this strictly cosmetic or is that a significant stress fracture? (I've been underneath looking at the frame in that area and it all looks OK.) Should I worry about water intrusion and freezing? Will the crack spread up the curve onto the sidewall proper?

38 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

not worth a trip to Hohenwald for me, in my opinion. 

Scheduling a long trip in advance is difficult for us because my wife's medical treatment plan can change on any given month. But I can't think of any shop around here experienced enough in both fiberglass repair and RV appliances to do the work. (I'm assuming the water heater needs to come out.) 

The last few trips this year had been uneventful and I was perfectly content waxing the trailer (and thinking we had come to some sort of understanding) when I found the crack. Ugh!

[Geronimo John]

Post deleted.  See JD's post above for the real skinny!

Edited Saturday at 12:22 AM by Geronimo John

[DavePhelps]

Inside corners are a typical area where gelcoat, which is relatively brittle, can fracture. Which is why it is never good practice to have square inside corners that concentrate flexing at a single point. Surprised you had a fracture with a nice radiused corner (Or is it? Is there a square cutout in fiberglass under the round WH flange?) Pretty sure the crack is just in the gelcoat and does not mean the fiberglass underneath is also cracked. So mostly just a cosmetic defect. Not sure how to "repair" a crack like that, and if a repair wouldn't suffer the same fate over time. Hopefully someone may know and chime in. 

Sorry to hear about your other woes. Our 10 year old trailer had some issues at the start, some also potentially dangerous. But since getting all that sorted, all has been great. Just had to replace my plastic toilet flange that was broken. Just the usual maintenance one would expect over time.

Good luck.

Dave

 

[jd1923]

31 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

It is my understanding that OTT makes the jack brackets and provides them to Barker.

Good to see you're back John, safely returned home from your annual mainland trip and contributing here as always! 😂

This is a point of confusion that it seems even Mike Sharpe did not understand the full installation process when I talked to him on the phone, hence his thinking this was a Barker issue (not).

The bolt holes that OTT drills into the lower hole and frame are not drilled to precision so that a one-piece bracket can be used (e.g. precision in distance between holes at +/- 0.010"). The ALUMINUM brackets are made by Oliver (same aluminum used in the frame). All Barker components are made from STEEL! Barker welds the STEEL bracket to their jack for Oliver and they have a special Oliver-only part number (learned from talking to Barker rep).

After the jack is put in place, the two aluminum brackets are tack-welded. Then they must be removed and fully welded on a workbench, then final installation bolted/torqued into place. If they were manufactured to length (welded by Barker), there would be no reason for a tack-weld followed by a complete weld. In fact they would use a one-piece bracket. Why are these aluminum parts when steel is used for frame pieces? Because OTT only welds aluminum! More info in my post linked below. 

I can see exactly how it was originally installed by removing and reinstalling these jacks. I believe I have done more jack work than any other Oliver owner, now that I have rebuilt all 3 jacks, ready for the next 10 years! 😎

 

Edited Friday at 08:10 PM by jd1923

[Steph and Dud B]

@jd1923 OTT must have changed their jack bracket setup. This is what we had at the base of our jacks.

Looks like what you fabricated. 

Also the source of one of our other problems. If you look here, you'll see the square hole circled in red is larger then the other.

Too large, in fact. The carriage bolt just spun around in the hole and couldn't be tightened. I found this trying to trace down the cause of that jack creaking under load. Don't know how that passed QC and got the little green marks on the head and nut.

[topgun2]

I think that I might be of a little help here regarding the brackets that are used to bolt the jacks to the Oliver frames.

Historically Oliver used two pieces of flat aluminum, welded together for these brackets.  However, in 2016 there were a number of these brackets that were put into a jig, tack welded and then the operator went "out to lunch" so to speak.  Next these tack welded only brackets were then installed all was good - UNTIL - one of them broke (I believe that this was on my brand new Ollie).  At this point Oliver switched to brackets made of angle steel which required no welding.  

I was told that all potential owners of the effected trailers were notified and either parts were mailed to those that requested it or the Service area replaced the defective parts as requested.  Apparently, there were owners that either were not notified or simply disregarded the notification by Oliver.

Bill

 

Edited Friday at 09:35 PM by topgun2
added photo

[jd1923]

I attached a picture of the tack-weld failed mount when I submitted a service ticket and was told OTT did not have brackets they could send me!

My next service ticket was re artwork for the front hull. When I was told again NO, I asked why I should ever again enter a service ticket? Five (5) times and not once have I received useful help. But then, if you want something done right…

Obviously they do have these brackets. At least the one I fab’d is better than OEM. My square holes for the carriage bolts are of correct size. No need for precision when you drill holes that wide! It’s not easy making square holes in 1/4” steel in a home shop, but should be EXACT when manufactured!

if yours is still lose, replace them with hex-head bolts, use a washer and position a wrench on the topside, against the bracket, while you tighten from down below.

Sheesh! If half of your 21 issues are like this quality made bracket, I’d feel the same way! Ours is only in good shape after I’ve put 1000+ hours into ours in sweat equity! Which is btw crazy.

[DavePhelps]

Seems like we have some serious thread drift going on here....

Dave

[Steph and Dud B]

7 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

If yours is still lose, replace them with hex-head bolts

In retrospect that's what I should have done, but this was on the warranty list for that first trip back to Hohenwald. They had the trailer for a day and a half. When we went back to get it, they told me they couldn't find a problem with the bolts. I asked them to fetch a torque wrench and I showed them myself. Then we had to wait another two and a half hours while they got a new bracket from the factory and put it in. 

[Steph and Dud B]

11 minutes ago, DavePhelps said:

Seems like we have some serious thread drift going on here....

Look, a butterfly! (Sorry...) 😁

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, DavePhelps said:

Seems like we have some serious thread drift going on here.... Dave

50 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Look, a butterfly! (Sorry...) 😁

I believe it's OK when the OP broadens the scope of the thread.

@Steph and Dud B can reword the title to, "Found a Crack - Defect #21!"

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Also the source of one of our other problems. If you look here, you'll see the square hole circled in red is larger then the other.

And BOTH bolts holes are too large. When they are the correct size you will not see the square opening at all as it should be completely hidden by the head of the carriage bolt.

[DavePhelps]

52 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

I believe it's OK when the OP broadens the scope of the thread.

@Steph and Dud B can reword the title to, "Found a Crack - Defect #21!"

Agreed. Although there was a moment when I first posted when I thought I was in the wrong thread.
Carry on.

Dave

[Steph and Dud B]

Back on topic, I'm still unsure of my course of action. Should I take the trailer back to Hohenwald for warranty fiberglass repair? That's a lot of expense and inconvenience for us. What kind of shop could do this repair locally? A boat shop? Or is OTT better equipped? Would a repair be permanent or just crack again at the same point? OTOH, is this only cosmetic and unlikely to spread further? Even so, a "cosmetic" crack won't help with resale on a very expensive trailer.

I asked OTT how long a repair would take and I'm waiting to hear back on that.

I think I may actually know when this happened. We had just set up at a campsite this fall. When I stepped onto the steps to go inside there was a sharp noise from the back of the trailer. It was odd enough that I actually went back and looked underneath to see what it was, but saw nothing. (Checked underneath again today, still OK.) Would gelcoat cracking make an audible noise like that??

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Should I take the trailer back to Hohenwald for warranty fiberglass repair? That's a lot of expense and inconvenience for us.

I believe the answer to your question is in your second sentence.

You have your warranty claim entered and acknowledged. The schedule is now up to you!

The crack ain’t going anywhere! It will either stay the same or grow a little longer. A proper repair can happen sooner or later, it makes no difference. Be cool. 😎

[Wandering Sagebrush]

With respect to the crack.  You might want to consider stop drilling the upper end to help relieve the forces in play.   To be safe, it would be best to run this by Oliver.

[DavePhelps]

OK, I will give you my 2 cents on this.

I have a 10 year old hull, so don't know how Oliver is currently dealing with their hull cutouts.
But I can say with some certainty that square inside corners in a fiberglass layup is just poor detailing. Especially in a RV that is subject to all kinds of stresses and vibration.
All corners at the very least should be drilled out with a hole saw to a diameter that is compatible with the appliance (or whatever) being installed. Then the straights can be cut out with whatever tool: angle grinder, router, jig saw etc. seems best.

The hull on my rear Oliver lense had square cutouts, and I have similar spider cracks at two of the corners. I checked my HWH yesterday and the hull was also square cut under the rounded metal flange. Last year my friend had to pull his HWH and his hull was also square cut (pretty badly as we recall). No spider cracks yet on ours but....

Look up in your attic at the back side of the Oliver light. If it was square cut, then that is a good indicator that your HWH is the same. You can also look from the inside at the HWH and see what the corners are like. If it is square cut, then the only repair I know that will last is to create a radius at the corner to spread out the stresses that concentrate there. This is what I did on my rear lense in the pic. For you, that will be a real PITA as the metal trim ring has to be removed and who knows what else. Mine is set with butyl tape and pop rivets. As I mentioned, your crack is probably just in the gelcoat and not structural. But it shouldn't be there in a trailer of this caliber. Any repair that doesn't address the root cause, will be wasted effort and money IMHO. Wandering Sagebrush's idea to drill a hole at the end of the crack could work. I have used "stop drilling" to stop cracks in fiberglass layups from migrating, but then you have a hole that needs to be gel-coated and polished out. Not sure if it would work for just a gelcoat fracture. Maybe a good solution? It could be! In the end, a good fiberglass technician will know what to do. But I think it will not be a quick and easy fix. Please post up what you find out.

Good luck.

Dave