Portable Solar Panels

[Overland]

I thought it would be good to have a topic specific to portable panels and getting them connected to our Olivers.

 

Oliver offers as an option a Zamp-specific port that is installed next to the 30 amp port on the street side of the trailer.  This is the route that we decided to take, but we've run across a few limitations that potential buyers should note.

 

First, Zamp tells me that the port itself is limited to 200 watts.  That should be fine for most people but if you do want more solar than that, the solution is to ask Oliver to install an additional port.  And you might want to have a second port installed anyway, because...

 

Secondly, Zamp doesn't provide any way to daisy chain their portable kits.  If you want to use more than one set of panels, you must have a separate port on the trailer for each one.  Even if you don't want more than 200 watts of portable solar, you might consider getting the extra port anyway, since the larger panels, particularly their 200 watt panels, can get pretty heavy and difficult to store.  So two sets of 120 watt panels may be a better route to take than one set of 200's.

 

Just something to consider when doing your planning.  I can tell you that the Zamp panels are solidly built, with stiff frames and legs, and come with a very sturdy semi-rigid case.  They come with an attached charge controller that looks like it has very similar options and interface as the controller for the rooftop solar, just sized for the wattage of the panels.  They come with a 15' cord (you can get a 15' extension) and come with an adapter for clamping directly to a battery.

[KarenLukens]

The extra Solar port was not mentioned as an option to us... Honestly after 4 months on the Zamp, I've got to say that I really miss the  Trimetrics monitor... I also have the Renogy 100watt Solar Suitcase and I am finding that we need it daily if we park under the trees where we get partial sun most of the day and full sun just off of the street side. Still, I only need to run the generator for an hour every other day, but if I had that option, I would be using it. I keep meaning to call Zamp to see if I can just connect our Suitcase directly to the batteries, without damaging their system but overall, I really miss being able to see the battery percentage and everything else that the Trimetrics offers...

 

http://www.loveyourrv.com/bogart-sc2030-cc-and-trimetric-tm2030-rv-installation/

 

 

[Overland]

If the Renology kit has it's own charge controller, then it shouldn't interfere with the Zamp system.  The problem comes if you try to run unregulated panels through the Zamp charge controller, since you may exceed the amperage limit of the controller.

 

 

 

Eventually, we're going to add a Victron BMV-700 battery monitor along with our other kit.  It's only $145 and should work as a stand alone monitor with the Zamp system, so you might check it out.

[bradbev]

I wasn't aware of the Victron, thanks for the link.  I've installed the Bogart system in my last two rigs, and helped install a couple others in friend's rigs.  I think the Bogart meter would work with the ZAMP controller, but I'll probably look at replacing the  ZAMP and install the complete Bogart system.  I don't have my rig yet, but I think both components, meter and controller, could be mounted in the area vacated by the ZAMP.

 

Brad

 

 

[KarenLukens]

If the Renology kit has it’s own charge controller, then it shouldn’t interfere with the Zamp system. The problem comes if you try to run unregulated panels through the Zamp charge controller, since you may exceed the amperage limit of the controller. Eventually, we’re going to add a Victron BMV-700 battery monitor along with our other kit. It’s only $145 and should work as a stand alone monitor with the Zamp system, so you might check it out.

What controller are you putting in? And was the Blue Sky not an option anymore? Or was it not an option that you wanted? I'm having a hard time understanding why I ended up with an old pwm Zamp system over a good quality mppt... I shouldn't be having to add an auxillary Solar System to my new Solar System, that was supposed to be state of the art. Unfortunately I'm really feeling like Oliver went cheap this year, while jacking up the prices. I paid the extra money for better than 2016 equipment, but so much has changed on the interior and now the Solar package that they switched to is showing its disadvantages also. Their Solar package add states that there's no need for a generator but I think that was in the past when they put in a quality mppt, before they cheapened the system... or down graded to the Zamp anyway while taking "State of the art quality" out of the Oliver... I started the generator again today but just to top it off. The Renogy Solar Suitcase is holding it steady, next I will be turning off the Zamp system and seeing how far I can push the 100watt Renogy system.

[rideandfly]

Overland, Thanks for starting this thread!

 

 

I started the generator again today but just to top it off. The Renogy Solar Suitcase is holding it steady, next I will be turning off the Zamp system and seeing how far I can push the 100watt Renogy system.

 

We don't have factory installed solar panels on our Ollie.

 

We have a 100watt Renogy Suitcase Solar Panel system and just purchased a Honda EU2000i. Most of the time we camp at campgrounds with shore power, but in the summer we camp on the Blue Ridge Parkway to get out of the heat in the lower elevations. Federal sites on the BRP do not have electricity,  so we use the Renogy system to maintain two 27 series 12V batteries (stock from OTT) and going to try out the Gen-Set when parked on shady sites to charge batteries.

 

Will be camping on the BRP later this month, will post how this system works out.

 

Edit:

 

Did some additional research on EU2000i and OTT installed Progressive Dynamics power system specifications that answered questions I had.

 

Will research installing a Victron battery system to replace the 27 series 12V batteries when they need to be replaced.  Trumpetguy mentioned using the Victron battery system, too. Used his idea for the MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC operation with the EU2000i.

[Overland]

What controller are you putting in? And was the Blue Sky not an option anymore? Or was it not an option that you wanted?  

 

I'm installing a Victron 150/60.  The only option Oliver would do is the same as what you've got, so I'm swapping it out on my own after delivery.  I understand why Oliver would want to offer a simple, single source package and since Zamp supplies the Airstream packages, it makes sense from a competitive standpoint as well.  But I do wish that they'd offer an upgraded unit for those of us who want better equipment and more control.  I would have been fine with Blue Sky, but I chose Victron since I wanted their MultiPlus Charger/Inverter and figured since I had the choice it would be best to keep the whole system from one manufacturer.  You can either run the Victron controller blind, with a choice of preset charging algorithms, add a bluetooth dongle and program it via their iPhone app, or hardwire in a remote, which is what we're doing.  It's not a cheap unit, so I hope that I find that it's worth the extra.  Once I have it running and get some experience with it, I'll post up a review and will try to make an honest analysis of whether it's worth the trouble and expense.

[KarenLukens]

So they would only install the Zamp pwm... Kinda takes away from the meaning of Legacy Elite doesn't it, especially when people plan on changing out their mediocre controller at pick up... We paid $2000 for this set up to Oliver if I remember right because I thought it was the Blue Sky mppt. Why did you pay for them to install their solar? Why not just have them run the wires? My friend Mark put in his 400watt flex panel set up on his Bigfoot himself and when he was parked here next to me, he was charged back up to 100% by 10am every day in partial morning sun, while I usually ended up running the generator for an hour after a full day with lots of sun to top our batteries off.

 

I've got to say, right now, I wouldn't recommend for anyone to buy the Solar Upgrade Package because there are much better systems available elsewhere. With the Blue Sky or another mppt, we wouldn't need to run the generator at all here. And now because I'm running the Renogy Solar Suitcase along with their Zamp, I'm doing fine.

 

There are plenty of other state of the art Solar systems available if Blue Sky was giving you guys that much problem.

 

I really don't think that the Zamp pwm system belongs on our Oliver Legacy Elite trailers because in today's world, it's flat out sub par, hands down, and our trailers are too good for this old school system. Stick with any state of the art true mppt system and keep the Oliver name the true best of the best in every way, Legacy Elite trailer :)

 

Reed

[Overland]

I can't disagree. I asked if they would just run the wiring but they wouldn't, nor would they install the Victron equipment. But I didn't really fancy installing my own panels, nor running the wiring and I think that's where any money would have been saved since the installed charger and charge controller themselves aren't particularly expensive.

[topgun2]

I must admit that I don't really understand about 50% of what you guys are talking about regarding mppt's, adding more panels, and flex panels versus rigid ones.  However, I do know that my solar charges my T-105's back to 100% no later than 10am each day regardless of being in a shaded site or in full sun.  I admit that I really do not use much electric but I do watch a DVD every other night (on average), I do listen to music most of the time when I'm in the camper and I almost never use the inverter or furnace.  Of course, I do have the Blue Sky system.

 

Given that there are a number of others that also have the Zamp system and there doesn't seem to be a chorus yelling about its performance in Olivers, it leads me to believe that there is something else going on here.  Certainly there have been cases of the Blue Sky controllers malfunctioning and/or wiring being completed incorrectly.  This just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Bill

[Overland]

I think the answer to that is really in how much power you consume. I agree that for most Oliver owners the standard solar package is perfectly adequate, even overkill. But if you're a large consumer of electricity, then I think that the weaknesses in Oliver's system will show themselves quickly. That's conjecture on my part, since I don't yet have my trailer, but I think Reed and Karen's experience provides some support. I would never recommend the system that I'm putting in my trailer for the average owner, simply because at the end of the day I will have spent right at $2000 more than I would have otherwise. But what I get for that money includes 640W solar, 400Ah of lithium, and a 3000W hybrid inverter/charger - so for me it's money well spent.

 

MPPT increases the amount of power you get from your panels under cloudy or shaded conditions. The same can be said for adding a portable panel to the mix since you can position the panel in the sunlight, as well as change its angle to the sun.

[KarenLukens]

I must admit that I don’t really understand about 50% of what you guys are talking about regarding mppt’s, adding more panels, and flex panels versus rigid ones. However, I do know that my solar charges my T-105’s back to 100% no later than 10am each day regardless of being in a shaded site or in full sun. I admit that I really do not use much electric but I do watch a DVD every other night (on average), I do listen to music most of the time when I’m in the camper and I almost never use the inverter or furnace. Of course, I do have the Blue Sky system. Given that there are a number of others that also have the Zamp system and there doesn’t seem to be a chorus yelling about its performance in Olivers, it leads me to believe that there is something else going on here. Certainly there have been cases of the Blue Sky controllers malfunctioning and/or wiring being completed incorrectly. This just doesn’t make sense to me. Bill

 

It's been in the low 70°s here and the fridge is on gas. The sun is bright but because the Zamp system is an older pwm style it does not work under a canopy of partial shade at all like your Blue Sky System does. We're not using any power but the batteries still drop a bit every day because we're still running the Solar controller, smoke alarms, fridge main panel, etc., but nothing else during the day because the trailer just sits here while we are working on the house. If we had the trailer parked in full sun out in the open, the Solar would keep it charged but the trailer would be rediculously hot. Basically mppt systems add 30% more power then the pwm systems and are designed to get the most out of the Solar panels even in shade. We've been in this trailer for over 4 months straight now and always keep learning more. If we leave the Solar panels and the wiring alone and pull out the Zamp pwm controller and monitor, then put the Blue Sky controller and monitor in like you have, being parked under a shade canopy will not be an issue because the Blue Sky System is designed to work better, up to 30% more efficient then the Zamp system and it will absorb the maximum amount of power from the sun and charge the batteries by 10am just like yours. After being side by side with our pwm system and an mppt system, the drawbacks of the pwm technology are made really clear. Your Blue Sky System is one of the best cutting edge systems available on the market, there's really no comparing it with the older Zamp system because they are from 2 different era's of solar advancements.

 

"Maximum Power Point Tracking is electronic tracking - usually digital. The charge controller looks at the output of the panels, and compares it to the battery voltage. It then figures out what is the best power that the panel can put out to charge the battery. It takes this and converts it to best voltage to get maximum AMPS into the battery. (Remember, it is Amps into the battery that counts). Most modern MPPT's are around 93-97% efficient in the conversion. You typically get a 20 to 45% power gain in winter and 10-15% in summer. Actual gain can vary widely depending weather, temperature, battery state of charge, and other factors." -

 

https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/batteries-and-charging/mppt-solar-charge-controllers.html

 

 

 

 

[KarenLukens]

Then here's some comparison info -

 

http://www.enerdrive.com.au/mppt-vs-pwm-solar-controllers/

 

 

[KarenLukens]

I must admit that I don’t really understand about 50% of what you guys are talking about regarding mppt’s, adding more panels, and flex panels versus rigid ones. However, I do know that my solar charges my T-105’s back to 100% no later than 10am each day regardless of being in a shaded site or in full sun. I admit that I really do not use much electric but I do watch a DVD every other night (on average), I do listen to music most of the time when I’m in the camper and I almost never use the inverter or furnace. Of course, I do have the Blue Sky system. Given that there are a number of others that also have the Zamp system and there doesn’t seem to be a chorus yelling about its performance in Olivers, it leads me to believe that there is something else going on here. Certainly there have been cases of the Blue Sky controllers malfunctioning and/or wiring being completed incorrectly. This just doesn’t make sense to me. Bill

 

I was doing some more reading on that site and here's the big problem with the Zamp, it doesn't give you the batteries percentage of charge. I love being able to look at a monitor and see it saying 100% or 75% or the actual percentage of battery available. To me this is most important and this most important figure isn't part of the Zamp monitor like it is in every other monitor that I've seen. That's why I was saying that I miss the Trimetrics monitor because that monitor tells you everything. The Blue Sky Monitor tells you everything also :)

 

This is a good site -

 

http://www.enerdrive.com.au/battery-monitors-window-power-system/

 

[Overland]

A good battery monitor will of course measure voltage, but will also keep track of actual amp hours used as well as taking into account temperature, charge efficiency, and rate of discharge.  Does the Zamp controller have the ability to track any of that info?  I don't have access to the manual but I'll guess no.  What about the Blue Sky?

 

One of the issues with using my Zamp portable panel is that the charge controller on the panel doesn't communicate with the victron battery monitor, so I don't think that it will be as accurate as it could be.   An option would be to bypass the built in monitor and wire the panels through the on board charge controller, or get a separate on board charge controller just for the portables.

[KarenLukens]

There's really no tracking on the Zamp except on a daily basis. Everything starts at zero in the morning. Here are the 4 screens...

 

 

We started out last night at 12.3 and ran Karen's CPAP all night... And that's all folks... It's 7am, we're starting out at 12.1vdc and going nowhere for a couple hours, the sun is still behind the hill so the controller is on but we start out in the shade and it's all zeroed out every morning. Generally we end up with around 22ah at the end of the day, I really miss the percentage meter, what's 12.1 mean again?.... We're still moving, so we're worn out having been at the cottage all day. Finished shampooing the carpets yesterday and started moving furniture back in. We gutted the place to clean everything. We're 2 hours behind the Oliver clock usually being here just waking up on the west coast :)

[topgun2]

Reed & Karen - 12.1 would suggest that you are at just about a 50% charge level assuming that nothing is on at the moment.  Bill

 

 

 

[skalywag]

Reed,

 

I do not know how accurate it is, but the Zamp does have a percentage (available battery) at the top of the display. I have to have my glasses on to read it.

 

We picked up our LE1 a week ago and have tested all systems with the exception of the fresh water and I am pleased so far - (knock on wood).

 

I am seeing  values of 13.4 V for our Lifeline 6V batteries that are being supported by the solar panels full sun for 4 hours (200 W) and running the already cold fridge on DC for 8 hours. We are just camping and not full timing, but I think we can live with this.

 

I enjoy ya'lls blog , Thank you,

 

Terry

 

 

[Overland]

Terry, did you install a compressor fridge?  I've always been told that the absorption fridges really eat power when run on DC.

[skalywag]

overland,

 

It is the oem Dometic2454 3 way that came with it. I ran it for a day on each mode. It was already cold and not opened very often with a low load  (beer and juice etc). I had read that they can be energy hogs as well.

 

I installed remote thermo/sensors and have been maintaining 35 degree F with -2 in the freezer for the last 5 days in our roughly 76-88 ambient temps.

 

Keep in mind all this equipment is brand new and I am new to trailers.

 

Cheers,

 

Terry

 

2017 LE1 #240

 

 

[KarenLukens]

Reed, I do not know how accurate it is, but the Zamp does have a percentage (available battery) at the top of the display... I enjoy ya’lls blog , Thank you, Terry

I don't see it...

[JWalmsley]

Greetings Campers!

 

We believe in transparency at Oliver Travel Trailers.  We would like to clarify our decision to change from the BlueSky charge controller to the ZAMP charge controller was based on the idea of providing an easy and enjoyable camping experience.  We chose a charge controller that was hassle free and designed to best suit the Oliver.  Listed below are the reasons why.

 

·        ZAMP solar is based in a world-class factory in Bend, Oregon, USA

 

·        Easy to use, less complex than MPPT controllers

 

·        Less prone to failure than MPPT controllers

 

·        Recommended for smaller (under 350 watts) systems like the Oliver

 

·        Prevents overcharging and gassing of your batteries

 

·        Recommended for travel trailers and RVs

 

We hope this clears up any confusion as to why we chose to go with ZAMP.  If you have any questions please feel free to call our Service Dept. at 1-866-205-2621.  Thank you!

 

 

[KarenLukens]

Greetings Campers! We believe in transparency at Oliver Travel Trailers.  We would like to clarify our decision to change from the BlueSky charge controller to the ZAMP charge controller was based on the idea of providing an easy and enjoyable camping experience.  We chose a charge controller that was hassle free and designed to best suit the Oliver.  Listed below are the reasons why. ZAMP solar is based in a world-class factory in Bend, Oregon, USA Easy to use, less complex than MPPT controllers Less prone to failure than MPPT controllers Recommended for smaller (under 350 watts) systems like the OliverPrevents overcharging and gassing of your batteries Recommended for travel trailers and RVs We hope this clears up any confusion as to why we chose to go with ZAMP.  If you have any questions please feel free to call our Service Dept. at 1-866-205-2621.  Thank you!

 

Thanks Jason, I think that Karen and I just got caught up in the middle of the change over. The Blue Sky system was what was being advertised still and I read all about it and was expecting to have that system on our rig. When we went thru our walk thru, Jason said we had the Zamp system and I had to ask him, "What's a Zamp?" because I'd never heard of it and didn't know beforehand that our solar system had been changed out. So that was our first surprise, then learning the difference between the MPPT & PWM systems. In order for the Zamp system to compare with the MPPT, it needs to have a 3rd panel added because a PWM system is 1/3 less efficient then an MPPT of equal size.

 

There was no office when we picked ours up, everything was in turmoil and everyone was working from a temporary desk at the factory while the sales office was being remodeled. Tommy had retired, Jason had stepped out of sales and dropped in as service manager and Anita became our salesperson while we were driving out to pick up hull #200. So we got caught in the middle of the big change and the trailer needed our entire pick up day to be completed and ready, which was fine. It put us into Fall Hollow after dark but we're experienced with trailers anyway and that night was the first time that I had ever heard of Zamp... Which brings me to the next question, on our paperwork it just states a 320 watt Solar System and we paid $2800.00 for it. I've done a ton of homework on the Zamp system now and have found that the 320 watt Zamp Solar package sells complete for between $1100 - $1300 retail and it has had me wondering for sometime, did I get charged the $2800 for the Blue Sky System or or was the solar installation cost the extra $1500+?

 

Reed

 

[trumpetguy]

This is off topic but still Germaine to battery charging.  There is a thread on AirForums about using the truck alternator to charge batteries while traveling.  This is not the same as the charge wire from the umbilical plug...but large cables (4/0) run straight from the alternator through a charger .  I don't know much about truck alternators but apparently they  can produce a lot of charging amps.

 

Any electrical experts want to contribute their ideas?

 

 

 

 

[Raspy]

This is off topic but still Germaine to battery charging. There is a thread on AirForums about using the truck alternator to charge batteries while traveling. This is not the same as the charge wire from the umbilical plug…but large cables (4/0) run straight from the alternator through a charger . I don’t know much about truck alternators but apparently they can produce a lot of charging amps. Any electrical experts want to contribute their ideas?

 

Auto and truck alternators are regulated internally and put out, at their terminals, 14.1-14.4 volts.  Truck alternators are often over 100 amp output.  I don't see why you couldn't run a large set of + and - cables to the rear of the TV.    Then have a plug that connected directly to the trailer batteries with another set of wires.   No additional charger would be needed.  You'd need a high amp connector of some sort, maybe welding cable plugs.

 

This would charge the trailer batteries up to the truck battery voltage while the engine was running, or 14.1 volts, and do it quickly.  It would also pull the truck batteries down with the trailer batteries if left connected while not running.  It might prove to be more practical than carrying a small generator as the truck could idle for 1/2 hour and do more than the genny in 1-2 hours, or so.   You could also run the inverter while the truck was running with no battery problems.